Another Fucking Mass Shooting At US School

[Copernicus]

Gospel seems to think that such hiatuses are rare, but I do think that there are such pauses.

28 or 29 so far this year means more than one a week on average. If you’re looking for a pause of several weeks, it could be a long wait.

I may be wrong, but I think that the number of gun-related injuries this year is basically double that of last year. Anyway, the amount of gun violence has risen dramatically. We will never reach a point at which Republican politicians want to discuss gun control. Their base of voters is split over this topic, so they would rather stay in a state of perpetual mourning.

 

[Copernicus]

Gospel seems to think that such hiatuses are rare, but I do think that there are such pauses.

Read what I said again then ask yourself. What country had another mass shooting before the dead were buried from a previous mass shooting? My statement had nothing to do with how often hiatuses occur, it was that only in America are there cases where there isn't one.

To answer your question: Ukraine. There are probably other war zones that could be compared to America.

 

[Gospel]

Gospel seems to think that such hiatuses are rare, but I do think that there are such pauses.

Read what I said again then ask yourself. What country had another mass shooting before the dead were buried from a previous mass shooting? My statement had nothing to do with how often hiatuses occur, it was that only in America are there cases where there isn't one.

To answer your question: Ukraine. There are probably other war zones that could be compared to America.

Says a lot when it has to be compared to a warzone.

 

[atrib]

Apparently, the Oklahoma shooter bought his AR15 a few hours before his rampage in that Tulsa hospital. He blamed a back surgeon there for pain he was suffering after his surgery, so he wanted to murder him. It's really convenient not to have those pesky waiting period laws or intrusive background checks to get in the way of an instant solution. Oklahoma's Republican lawmakers have been hard at work to get the government off the backs of citizens in a hurry.

Let's say he wasn't able to buy an AR15. He also had a handgun. Handguns are also very effective firearms, especially at close range.
If he still wanted the firepower of a rifle but without access to an AR15, there are non-assaulty rifles that fire the same cartridge as the AR15, and thus have similar ballistics.

I think the whole assault weapons angle is a distraction. Vast majority of gun crimes are committed with handguns.

Pretty much every handgun I have used (numerous 1911s, Glocks, Berettas and others) are vastly inferior to an AR15 as a weapon of mass killing. The AR15 is light, ergonomic, easy to aim and has a mild recoil that makes it perfect for the novice and expert alike, and I'm not even counting on the magazine capacity. Most handguns require experience to be used efficiently and effectively against multiple targets, and some can be extremely picky about ammo and regular cleaning. While I love my 1911s for the mechanically beautiful tools that they are, I would pick an AR15 if I had to defend myself against a crowd every single day.

The caliber of the round has very little to do with ability to kill once you move past the 22. A run-of-the-mill 9mm Luger full metal jacket projectile (inexpensive and typically used for range work) is just as lethal as a 10mm jacketed hollow point projectile with a P+ load when used on a human target who is not wearing body armor.

 

[prideandfall]

I think the whole assault weapons angle is a distraction. Vast majority of gun crimes are committed with handguns.

i dunno, i think it's relevant - because america is absolutely fine with handgun violence and handgun deaths, so whatever crime or death statistics you care to name that involve handguns are just part of the tapestry of what it means to be america.

but, mass murders are something that america does seem to get upset about, and while it might seem a bit arbitrary and kind of silly (comparing the number of dead in mass shootings vs. the number of dead annually to handguns) it's the line that has been demarcated within american society.

if the pro-gun people would shut the fuck up about it and let assault weapons be banned, they could own all the handguns and rifles and shotguns they want, which i thought was the real purpose of their pro-gun stance in the first place.

 

[Copernicus]

Apparently, the Oklahoma shooter bought his AR15 a few hours before his rampage in that Tulsa hospital. He blamed a back surgeon there for pain he was suffering after his surgery, so he wanted to murder him. It's really convenient not to have those pesky waiting period laws or intrusive background checks to get in the way of an instant solution. Oklahoma's Republican lawmakers have been hard at work to get the government off the backs of citizens in a hurry.

Let's say he wasn't able to buy an AR15. He also had a handgun. Handguns are also very effective firearms, especially at close range.
If he still wanted the firepower of a rifle but without access to an AR15, there are non-assaulty rifles that fire the same cartridge as the AR15, and thus have similar ballistics.

I think the whole assault weapons angle is a distraction. Vast majority of gun crimes are committed with handguns.

Pretty much every handgun I have used (numerous 1911s, Glocks, Berettas and others) are vastly inferior to an AR15 as a weapon of mass killing. The AR15 is light, ergonomic, easy to aim and has a mild recoil that makes it perfect for the novice and expert alike, and I'm not even counting on the magazine capacity. Most handguns require experience to be used efficiently and effectively against multiple targets, and some can be extremely picky about ammo and regular cleaning. While I love my 1911s for the mechanically beautiful tools that they are, I would pick an AR15 if I had to defend myself against a crowd every single day.

The caliber of the round has very little to do with ability to kill once you move past the 22. A run-of-the-mill 9mm Luger full metal jacket projectile (inexpensive and typically used for range work) is just as lethal as a 10mm jacketed hollow point projectile with a P+ load when used on a human target who is not wearing body armor.

You seem to have a lot of good information for potential mass killers, but I suspect that they choose the  AR-15 style rifle mainly because of all the free advertising those weapons get in news stories. Most mass killers wouldn't want to be caught dead using any other weapon, so a great many of them are caught that way.

 

[bilby]

The most immediate failure here is the lack of a waiting period

I agree. Simply impose an eighty year waiting period, and require all purchasers to be over 21, and the problem pretty much goes away.

 

[steve_bank]

In the arera there has been a dozen or more school closures due ro threats since the Texas incident.

High school kids took pictures of themselves on campus holding toy guns and posted them online resulting in a shutdown.

A kid sent thretening emails to ather students focng a shutdownm he was discovered.

Multiple threats made against schools.

What is it in our culture, what kids are exposed to, and how they are being rased leads to such behavior? The shootings are a symptom of a greater issue. Other symptoms are teen suice, alchohol addiction, and drug addiction.

In the national news an 18 year old was making connents about attacking a school. It was reported by kids. Police found a gun and bomb making materials.

The Columbine massacre was kids. What does that tell you?

Another Fucking Mass Shooting At US School

... Why did the police wait for the keys? It's fair to say that everyone is asking that question. I think that a few of reasons may have been that they weren't prepared to break into a locked room containing an active shooter, they weren't being told to enter, they feared being injured or...

iidb.org

The Columbine High School massacre was a school shooting and attempted bombing that occurred on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School in Columbine, Colorado, United States.[a] The perpetrators, twelfth-grade (senior) students Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, murdered 12 students and one teacher. Ten students were killed in the school library, where the pair subsequently committed suicide. Twenty-one additional people were injured by gunshots, and gunfire was also exchanged with the police. Another three people were injured trying to escape. At the time, it was the deadliest high school shooting in U.S. history.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_High_School_massacre#cite_note-5 The shooting has inspired dozens of copycat killings (dubbed the Columbine effect), including many deadlier shootings across the world.[c] The word "Columbine" has become a byword for school shootings.

Harris and Klebold had intended for the attack to be a bombing mainly, and a shooting secondary, but the failing detonation of the several homemade bombs they planted in the school caused the pair to launch a shooting attack. Two bombs were set up as diversions at another location away from the school, one of which partially detonated. The motive remains inconclusive; however, they had planned the attack for at least a year and hoped to have a large number of victims.

The police were slow to enter the school and were heavily criticized for not intervening during the shooting. The incident resulted in the introduction of the Immediate Action Rapid Deployment tactic, which is used in active shooter situations. Columbine also resulted in an increased emphasis on school security with zero tolerance policies. Debates and moral panic were sparked over guns and gun control laws, high school cliques, subcultures (e. g. goths), outcasts, and school bullying, as well as teenage use of pharmaceutical antidepressants, the Internet and violence in video games and movies.

Many makeshift memorials were created after the massacre, including victims Rachel Scott's car and John Tomlin's truck. Fifteen crosses for the victims and shooters were also erected on top of a hill in Clement Park. The crosses for Harris and Klebold were removed later following controversy. The Columbine Memorial began planning as a permanent memorial in June 1999 and opened to the public on September 21, 2007.

Writings​

Shortly after the court hearing for the van break-in, Harris reverted his website back to just hosting user-created levels of Doom. He began to write his thoughts down in a journal instead. In both of these journals, Harris and Klebold would later plot the attack. Soon after beginning his journal, Harris typed out one plan of attack which included after the massacre possibly escaping to a foreign country or hijacking an aircraft at Denver International Airport and crashing it into New York City.[11]

Klebold had already been keeping a personal journal since March 1997; as early as November of that year, Klebold had mentioned going on a killing spree. Klebold had used his journal to vent about his personal problems as well as what he'd wear and use during the attack.[29]

Harris also made entries on topics such as his sexuality on his journal where he described the desire for sex with women, especially his desire of raping and torturing them in his bedroom.[31] Harris also expressed interest in cannibalism and stated that he would like to dismember a woman whom he could have sex with.[32]

Harris and Klebold also used their schoolwork to foreshadow the massacre.[h] They both displayed themes of violence in their creative writing projects. In December 1997, Harris wrote a paper on school shootings titled "Guns in School",[35][36] and a poem from the perspective of a bullet.[37] Klebold wrote a short story about a man killing students which worried his teacher so much that she alerted his parents.[38][39]

Both had also actively researched war and murder. For one project, Harris wrote a paper on the Nazis and Klebold wrote a paper on Charles Manson.[40][41][42] In a psychology class, Harris wrote he dreamed of going on a shooting spree with Klebold.[43] Harris's journals described several experimental bomb detonations.[29][44]

Nearly a year before the massacre, Klebold wrote a message in Harris's 1998 yearbook: "killing enemies, blowing up stuff, killing cops!! My wrath for January's incident will be godlike. Not to mention our revenge in the commons." The commons was slang for the school cafeteria.[9]

Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Eric David Harris (April 9, 1981 – April 20, 1999) and Dylan Bennet Klebold (/ˈkliːboʊld/; September 11, 1981 – April 20, 1999) were an American mass murder duo who perpetrated the Columbine High School massacre on April 20, 1999. Harris and Klebold killed 13 people and wounded 24 others,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Harris_and_Dylan_Klebold#cite_note-3 at Columbine High School, where they were seniors, in Columbine, Colorado. After killing most of their victims in the school's library, they later committed suicide. At the time, it was the deadliest high school shooting in U.S. history,[c] with the ensuing media frenzy and moral panic leading it to become one of the most infamous mass shootings ever perpetrated.

Harris and Klebold were both born in 1981. Harris was born in Wichita, Kansas, but moved around frequently as a child due to his father's occupation in the United States Air Force, while Klebold was born and raised near Columbine. Harris' family eventually settled in Colorado in 1992. Shortly after, Harris and Klebold met, while they were in the 7th grade. Over time, they became increasingly close. By the time they were juniors, they were described as inseparable. There are differing reports; some say Harris and Klebold were very unpopular students once they were upperclassmen, and frequent targets of bullying, while others say they were not near the bottom of the school's social hierarchy and each had many friends, along with active social lives. Columbine High School was known to have an intense "jock culture", which saw many popular students, mainly athletes, benefit from special treatment from faculty and other students.[3]

From their journals, Harris and Klebold had seemed to begin planning the attack by May 1998, nearly an entire year before the attack. Throughout the next 11 months, Harris and Klebold meticulously built explosives and gathered an arsenal of weapons. Both Harris and Klebold each left behind several journal writings and home videos, ones they made both alone and together, foreshadowing the massacre and explaining their motives. Harris and Klebold hoped this content would be viewed by the public extensively and inspire followers, although much of the evidence has never been released by authorities.

Harris and Klebold often wore trench coats in school, and in general, as part of their everyday outfits, so after the massacre, it was widely believed Harris and Klebold were part of a clique in school called the "Trenchcoat Mafia", a group of misfits in the school who supposedly rebelled against the popular students.[4] This turned out to be untrue, as neither Harris nor Klebold had any affiliation with the group.[5][6] The pair's aforementioned writings and videos gave insight into their rationale for the shooting. The FBI concluded that Harris was a psychopath, who exhibited a lack of empathy, narcissistic traits, and unconstrained aggression, while Klebold was concluded to be an angry depressive with a vengeful attitude toward individuals who he believed had mistreated him.[7] However neither Harris nor Klebold were formally diagnosed with any mental illnesses prior to the attack,[8] so this conclusion is often debated. In the following years, various media outlets attributed multiple motivating factors to the attack, including bullying, mental illness, racism, psychiatric medication, and media violence. Despite these conclusions, the exact motive for the attack remains inconclusive.

Harris and Klebold have become pop culture icons, with the pair often portrayed, referenced and seen in film, television, video games, music and books. Many killers since the shooting have taken inspiration from the pair (dubbed the Columbine effect), either hailing them as heroes, martyrs and gods, or expressing sympathy for them. Harris and Klebold also have a fanbase, who have coined the term "Columbiners", who write fan fiction and draw fan art of them. Others have also dressed as the duo for cosplay or Halloween.[9]

I am no fan of the NRA and the republican insanity on guns especially assaultl rifles, but they are not really the main problem.

 

[ZiprHead]

I am no fan of the NRA and the republican insanity on guns especially assaultl rifles, but they are not really the main problem.

Would Harris and Klebold have been problems if they didn't have access to firearms?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Apparently, the Oklahoma shooter bought his AR15 a few hours before his rampage in that Tulsa hospital. He blamed a back surgeon there for pain he was suffering after his surgery, so he wanted to murder him. It's really convenient not to have those pesky waiting period laws or intrusive background checks to get in the way of an instant solution. Oklahoma's Republican lawmakers have been hard at work to get the government off the backs of citizens in a hurry.

Let's say he wasn't able to buy an AR15. He also had a handgun. Handguns are also very effective firearms, especially at close range.
If he still wanted the firepower of a rifle but without access to an AR15, there are non-assaulty rifles that fire the same cartridge as the AR15, and thus have similar ballistics.

I think the whole assault weapons angle is a distraction. Vast majority of gun crimes are committed with handguns.

Pretty much every handgun I have used (numerous 1911s, Glocks, Berettas and others) are vastly inferior to an AR15 as a weapon of mass killing. The AR15 is light, ergonomic, easy to aim and has a mild recoil that makes it perfect for the novice and expert alike, and I'm not even counting on the magazine capacity. Most handguns require experience to be used efficiently and effectively against multiple targets, and some can be extremely picky about ammo and regular cleaning. While I love my 1911s for the mechanically beautiful tools that they are, I would pick an AR15 if I had to defend myself against a crowd every single day.

The caliber of the round has very little to do with ability to kill once you move past the 22. A run-of-the-mill 9mm Luger full metal jacket projectile (inexpensive and typically used for range work) is just as lethal as a 10mm jacketed hollow point projectile with a P+ load when used on a human target who is not wearing body armor.

The AR15 is a military weapon. It has much higher velocity and a round that tumbles and causes much more damage to its victim.

 

[steve_bank]

I am no fan of the NRA and the republican insanity on guns especially assaultl rifles, but they are not really the main problem.

Would Harris and Klebold have been problems if they didn't have access to firearms?

You are missing the point.

If kids start setting fires around the country in schools do you blame the availability of matches or do you look for an underlying cause for the behavior? Where do parents fit into all of this.

Do you blame DUI deths on auto makers? Do we need cars on the streets that go faster than 100mph?

 

[ZiprHead]

Apparently, the Oklahoma shooter bought his AR15 a few hours before his rampage in that Tulsa hospital. He blamed a back surgeon there for pain he was suffering after his surgery, so he wanted to murder him. It's really convenient not to have those pesky waiting period laws or intrusive background checks to get in the way of an instant solution. Oklahoma's Republican lawmakers have been hard at work to get the government off the backs of citizens in a hurry.

Let's say he wasn't able to buy an AR15. He also had a handgun. Handguns are also very effective firearms, especially at close range.
If he still wanted the firepower of a rifle but without access to an AR15, there are non-assaulty rifles that fire the same cartridge as the AR15, and thus have similar ballistics.

I think the whole assault weapons angle is a distraction. Vast majority of gun crimes are committed with handguns.

Pretty much every handgun I have used (numerous 1911s, Glocks, Berettas and others) are vastly inferior to an AR15 as a weapon of mass killing. The AR15 is light, ergonomic, easy to aim and has a mild recoil that makes it perfect for the novice and expert alike, and I'm not even counting on the magazine capacity. Most handguns require experience to be used efficiently and effectively against multiple targets, and some can be extremely picky about ammo and regular cleaning. While I love my 1911s for the mechanically beautiful tools that they are, I would pick an AR15 if I had to defend myself against a crowd every single day.

The caliber of the round has very little to do with ability to kill once you move past the 22. A run-of-the-mill 9mm Luger full metal jacket projectile (inexpensive and typically used for range work) is just as lethal as a 10mm jacketed hollow point projectile with a P+ load when used on a human target who is not wearing body armor.

The AR15 is a military weapon. It has much higher velocity and a round that tumbles and causes much more damage to its victim.

The inventor of the AR15 said it was never meant for civilian use.

Family of AR-15 Inventor: He Didn’t Intend It for Civilians

The inventor’s surviving children and adult grandchildren spoke exclusively to MSNBC, commenting for the first time on their family’s uneasy legacy.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[ZiprHead]

I am no fan of the NRA and the republican insanity on guns especially assaultl rifles, but they are not really the main problem.

Would Harris and Klebold have been problems if they didn't have access to firearms?

You are missing the point.

If kids start setting fires around the country in schools do you blame the availability of matches or do you look for an underlying cause for the behavior? Where do parents fit into all of this.

Why can't we do both?

Do you blame DUI deths on auto makers? Do we need cars on the streets that go faster than 100mph?

Christ, not this shit again!

 

[Enigma]

I am no fan of the NRA and the republican insanity on guns especially assaultl rifles, but they are not really the main problem.

Would Harris and Klebold have been problems if they didn't have access to firearms?

Pretty sure that if guns weren't an option, they would be perfectly fine developing and deploying more pipe bombs.

 

[ZiprHead]

Just heard this afternoon there was a huge shootout between two groups in our Old Town last night, an area with lots of bars in centrury old buildings. Over a hundred shell casings identified, only one non-life threatening injury. I guess it's lucky these idiots don't know how to aim.

 

[ZiprHead]

I am no fan of the NRA and the republican insanity on guns especially assaultl rifles, but they are not really the main problem.

Would Harris and Klebold have been problems if they didn't have access to firearms?

Pretty sure that if guns weren't an option, they would be perfectly fine developing and deploying more pipe bombs.

Pipe bombs are already illegal.

 

[Copernicus]

I am no fan of the NRA and the republican insanity on guns especially assaultl rifles, but they are not really the main problem.

Would Harris and Klebold have been problems if they didn't have access to firearms?

Pretty sure that if guns weren't an option, they would be perfectly fine developing and deploying more pipe bombs.

Pipe bombs are already illegal.

Yep. That's why teenage kids can't just go buy them in a local bomb shop on their 18th birthday. OTOH, I can see some politicians taking the position that pipe bombs are perfectly reasonable weapons for a local militiaman group to use against government tyranny. Don't tell Republican lawmakers.

 

[bilby]

Just heard this afternoon there was a huge shootout between two groups in our Old Town last night, an area with lots of bars in centrury old buildings. Over a hundred shell casings identified, only one non-life threatening injury. I guess it's lucky these idiots don't know how to aim.

Most people have a hugely inflated idea of the effective range of handguns.

In circumstances where the target is moving, you are more likely than not to miss even at very short range; If you’re beyond lunging distance with a sword, you’re probably too far away to expect a hit.

In ideal conditions, with a stationary target, a pistol can be effective to about 50m range for a proficient, but not expert, shooter. But 25m is about the absolute limit for hitting a moving target, or in conditions of poor visibility, even for an expert pistol marksman.

Most people, raised on action movies where pistols have similar accuracy to sniper rifles even at ranges of hundreds of metres, are unaware that this common portrayal is ludicrous.

Handguns are strictly short range weapons.

 

[Hermit]

Do you blame DUI deths on auto makers? Do we need cars on the streets that go faster than 100mph?

Not that canard again. Here is a different question. Why do you think the murder rate has risen to 6.2 in the US while it has fallen to 0.9 in Australia? Here are some hints: The possession of firearms in Australia is highly regulated. Owners have to pass background checks and safety training courses before they can obtain a firearms license. No license, no firearms. Then they have to store their guns in approved lockers when not in use and keep them unloaded unless they are actually hunting or target shooting. Also, since the end of WWII it is almost impossible to privately own a handgun. Not that there is a great need to own one, since there is no need to defend oneself against other people with handguns.

I put it to you that one reason underlying the lower murder rate in Australia is gun control.

 

[Tigers!]

At least in comparable countries when there is a mass shooting they get to bury the dead before there is another mass shooting. You'd think that only happens during a war. There was a mass shooting at a Medical center in Oklahoma, a Cemetary in Wisconsin & a church parking lot in Iowa since this thread was created.

Yeah, we don't need to WELL REGULATE which law-abiding citizens get guns.

You'd almost be forgiven for think that you were picking up speed down the hill.