Another traffic stop gone wrong

[Jimmy Higgins]

One other note, I think it is incredible the speed in which these details have come forth, over a minor incident. Yet the amount of time that the police required to pull their bullshit down in Ferguson after the man was shot and killed took forever.

 

[Toni]

They look like they could be twins. I can see why the cop had his suspicions.

No, they don't look like twins. They are both black men of approximately the same age with a beard and shaved head. This is not unusual. It is not possible to know from the photos attached if they have the same build. Just that neither is very skinny or very heavy. There's a lot of room between those extremes.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

They look like they could be twins. I can see why the cop had his suspicions.

No, they don't look like twins. They are both black men of approximately the same age with a beard and shaved head. This is not unusual. It is not possible to know from the photos attached if they have the same build. Just that neither is very skinny or very heavy. There's a lot of room between those extremes.

Are you saying the appearances aren't similar enough to warrant suspicion after a quick view from a distance?

 

[Alcoholic Actuary]

What about the fact that the cop threated to take their 2-week old baby away and put it in CPS?!? Or lying about the dog finding 'something' in or on the car? Anyone defending this police stop as mistaken identity gone wrong is going to bump up against the inevitable fact that this cop is a dick, plain and simple.

aa

 

[KeepTalking]

What made the car suspicious enough that the police officer decided to run the plates?

He allegedly saw the man he thought was Newell enter the vehicle. Then he ran the plate.

Did he run the plates before or after he pulled the driver (who was not a black man) over? Did the driver commit some traffic violation? Was it just 'suspicious' that a white (at least she looked white to me) woman was driving a car with a black male passenger? Now, 40 years ago, that would have been unusual. It isn't anymore, even in the 93% white, <2.0% black community where I live.

Please read my post above. I think it helps explain what happened, and it may be very a case of reasonable mistaken identity that was not handled as well as it could have.

One problem I have is that the woman in the vehicle was charged for this incident, which seems absurd based on the control the man in the car was asserting.

If that is really the way it went down, and not a post hoc justification by the officer, why does he repeatedly state in the video that he pulled them over because their headlights were not on?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What about the fact that the cop threated to take their 2-week old baby away and put it in CPS?!? Or lying about the dog finding 'something' in or on the car? Anyone defending this police stop as mistaken identity gone wrong is going to bump up against the inevitable fact that this cop is a dick, plain and simple.

aa

Did the stopping officer threaten taking the baby? Certainly whatever officer did that was a Grade A asshole.

He allegedly saw the man he thought was Newell enter the vehicle. Then he ran the plate.

Did he run the plates before or after he pulled the driver (who was not a black man) over? Did the driver commit some traffic violation? Was it just 'suspicious' that a white (at least she looked white to me) woman was driving a car with a black male passenger? Now, 40 years ago, that would have been unusual. It isn't anymore, even in the 93% white, <2.0% black community where I live.

Please read my post above. I think it helps explain what happened, and it may be very a case of reasonable mistaken identity that was not handled as well as it could have.

One problem I have is that the woman in the vehicle was charged for this incident, which seems absurd based on the control the man in the car was asserting.

If that is really the way it went down, and not a post hoc justification by the officer, why does he repeatedly state in the video that he pulled them over because their headlights were not on?

There is no good answer for that. They allegedly have all of the information recorded, so it can be reviewed. It could have been a reasonable stop, but then the guy pissed off the officer and he started acting like Cartman.

Even if this was a honest stop, the officer did poorly. May have done worse if he wasn't being videotaped.

 

[Toni]

No, they don't look like twins. They are both black men of approximately the same age with a beard and shaved head. This is not unusual. It is not possible to know from the photos attached if they have the same build. Just that neither is very skinny or very heavy. There's a lot of room between those extremes.

Are you saying the appearances aren't similar enough to warrant suspicion after a quick view from a distance?

I'm saying that a lot of black men have shaved heads and beards. If the officer was familiar enough with someone with outstanding warrants to 'recognize' him at a distance in a moving vehicle but did not know known associates or probable vehicle?

 

[Mumbles]

This is true, which is the best reason to not give a cop a reason to think you are his enemy. If a person has the time for this kind of nonsense and the money for a lawyer to get you out of this kind of nonsense, the smart thing to do is get out of the car and follow instructions.

Except that is exactly what Levar Jones did in South Carolina, and he got shot anyway.

Jones broke one of the rules of "the talk." He moved too quickly to comply with the cop's instructions.

 

[Mumbles]

They look like they could be twins. I can see why the cop had his suspicions.

Like Toni said, they're really not very close. The eyebrows, nose, and head shape are all very different. And one appears to be lighter than the other as well, and even the beards are somewhat different, but that could be the lighting.

 

[RavenSky]

What about the fact that the cop threated to take their 2-week old baby away and put it in CPS?!? Or lying about the dog finding 'something' in or on the car? Anyone defending this police stop as mistaken identity gone wrong is going to bump up against the inevitable fact that this cop is a dick, plain and simple.

aa

^^ This

If the cop really thought the passenger was Newell, then he handled the stop very very wrong

 

[RavenSky]

Except that is exactly what Levar Jones did in South Carolina, and he got shot anyway.

Jones broke one of the rules of "the talk." He moved too quickly to comply with the cop's instructions.

And John Crawford moved too slow.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

They look like they could be twins. I can see why the cop had his suspicions.

I wouldn't call them twins but they're certainly close enough that checking it out is a reasonable course of action.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

This situation appears to be about a guy that is pissed that they were pulled over, in his mind, because they were black. The officer is thinking he may have caught a guy with a long rap sheet, wanted on numerous charges. The officer thinks this guy is stonewalling him because he is who he is seeking. Meanwhile, the guy in the car knows there are no drugs in the car and his tact of not helping the officer who has a drug dog with them, is the correct one, they are trying to fuck them over.

Each person is reinforcing the other's initial suspicion. This is where the officer should have the training to be able to get the guy to play ball. But he fails.

While I agree with your assessment of events I don't agree with blaming the cop for the fact the guy wouldn't cooperate--it's obvious his mind was made up at the start. Don't make it the cop's fault this guy was being an idiot.

I'm saying he started it when he refused to identify himself despite the cop thinking he looked like someone they were after.

That ignores the obvious: that this entire incident would not have occurred if the police officer had not stopped the car for no real reason.

The Ohio license for the plates were expired. It is one of those technicalities you use when trying to apprehend someone you believe is wanted on warrants.

It's not just a technicality. If a cop sees plates that are expired long enough (remember, just because you renewed them doesn't mean you instantly have the sticker) they'll normally stop the car. Note how the sticker for your plate is a different color each year?? That's so a cop can quickly see if the plate is expired.

- - - Updated - - -

He did have reason, as the plate came up to an owner with a expired licence.

What made the car suspicious enough that the police officer decided to run the plates?

Did he run the plates before or after he pulled the driver (who was not a black man) over? Did the driver commit some traffic violation? Was it just 'suspicious' that a white (at least she looked white to me) woman was driving a car with a black male passenger? Now, 40 years ago, that would have been unusual. It isn't anymore, even in the 93% white, <2.0% black community where I live.

Cops don't need suspicion to run plates. These days a cop that's stopped by traffic is liable to run nearby plates if they don't have anything else they need to do. They also sometimes have cameras that run nearby plates without human intervention.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

While I agree with your assessment of events I don't agree with blaming the cop for the fact the guy wouldn't cooperate--it's obvious his mind was made up at the start. Don't make it the cop's fault this guy was being an idiot.

One minor (read that as major) issue. Every single thing the cop did was suspicious in the passenger's mind, and rightly so. He knew they didn't break any traffic law. He knew there were no drugs in the car, yet the officer said there were drugs in his car. The stop was suspicious from the beginning (invalid license registered to the plate?) and everything the cop did after that point did confirm the passenger's thoughts.

The officer did nothing to account for the possibility he was wrong about the ID, and that was a major failing on his part. The two men had similar looks, they weren't twins however.

 

[bleubird]

Fascism.Show Me your papers!
The slow creep..
Obey! Or I will arrest you!
we are so fucked.

 

[Juma]

The officer did nothing to account for the possibility he was wrong about the ID,.

Yes he did: he required the man to identify himself. Had he done sone there would been no problems

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The officer did nothing to account for the possibility he was wrong about the ID,.

Yes he did: he required the man to identify himself. Had he done sone there would been no problems

The man who is the car that was stopped for a dubious reason, wasn't exactly required to identify himself. The officer didn't try to determine a method to help the man want to coorperate, because the officer was pretty certain he had the right guy. That was a mistake. This is a case of an officer failing to deal with a citizen properly.

Some people seem to think that the Police stand on water. The reality is that they need to know how to interact with people in all sorts of situations. When the drug dog allegedly hits on a car that the passenger knows does not contain drugs, what is he supposed to think at that point.

 

[Jayjay]

I can't help but to think, what would have happened if instead of saying that he doesn't have to identify himself would have said that he doesn't have any ID on him?

Would the cop had arrested merely on the suspicion that he might be a criminal because he has the same type of beard and hair cut?

 

[ksen]

I can't help but to think, what would have happened if instead of saying that he doesn't have to identify himself would have said that he doesn't have any ID on him?

He probably would have been arrested or given a ticket for driving without a license.

eta: or gunned down in the street

 

[Jayjay]

I can't help but to think, what would have happened if instead of saying that he doesn't have to identify himself would have said that he doesn't have any ID on him?

He probably would have been arrested or given a ticket for driving without a license.

eta: or gunned down in the street

driving withut a license... from the passenger seat? That makes it even worse!!