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Another traffic stop gone wrong

Looks like plenty of blame for both sides here.

The cops are out of line but he started it.

Want the cops to treat you properly? Don't start shit!
 
I am disappointed, I expected to see policeman losing it and shooting white guy.
Instead I see a black guy losing it and trying to start a fight with a police.
Of course we don't know context, maybe this black dude got tired of being stopped every day.
And if this is in fact what is happening then better course of action would be cooperate with police but record every stop and then show how often he is being stopped.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
Looks like plenty of blame for both sides here.

The cops are out of line but he started it.

Want the cops to treat you properly? Don't start shit!
Click to expand...
Do you have any evidence that this man did something to make the police stop the car? Because without such evidence, your claim this man "started it" is utter bullshit.
 
The biggest problems I have with blaming the guy because he was being a jerk is

1. Being a jerk is not against the law, and should not be an excuse for police to escalate
2. Being polite, respectful, and following every direction exactly does not make any difference in the way that police escalate situations.

I grew up as a privileged white girl where my only encounter with police was Officer Friendly events at my elementary school. Even now, many of my customers are police officers and my default is still to be respectful, and to expect respect from them.

What I have found, though, is that as long as the interaction is in a non-police situation - even if they are in uniform - they act like normal human beings and treat "civilians" like normal human beings. But as soon as they are acting in an official capacity, it's like everything becomes "us" (police) vs "them" (everyone is a potential violent criminal)... even in the simplest interactions... even with privileged white girls now grown up.
 
There was no reason for the police officer to break the window and tase the individual. Not even if he was suspended from high school in 1984. He claimed to fear for his safety if he stepped out of the vehicle and his fears were obviously correct as he was attacked regardless.
 
RavenSky said:
The biggest problems I have with blaming the guy because he was being a jerk is

1. Being a jerk is not against the law, and should not be an excuse for police to escalate
2. Being polite, respectful, and following every direction exactly does not make any difference in the way that police escalate situations.
Click to expand...
The one thing to note is that the officer was pretty specific about his suspicion that the guy was someone else. A simple ID should have ended the situation.

But I still don't understand why he approached the vehicle alone if he thought the guy was wanted on numerous warrants.
 
Reading this thread before watching the video, I expected a lot worse. I have to put my sympathy with the officer in this case. He pulled some people over and then noticed one of them looked like a felon the police were looking for. What should he have done at that point? He asked for the man's ID and the man refused to cooperate. Had the man indeed been the felon the police were looking for, and he just let him go without even seeing an ID (even a fake ID), I think he'd be in a lot more hot water than he is from having this video on the internet.
 
Jolly_Penguin said:
Reading this thread before watching the video, I expected a lot worse. I have to put my sympathy with the officer in this case. He pulled some people over and then noticed one of them looked like a felon the police were looking for. What should he have done at that point? He asked for the man's ID and the man refused to cooperate. Had the man indeed been the felon the police were looking for, and he just let him go without even seeing an ID (even a fake ID), I think he'd be in a lot more hot water than he is from having this video on the internet.
Click to expand...

What the officer did is known as a "fishing expedition". There was likely no specific person wanted on warrants who the officer had in mind, but the man was black, so he fits the description of "black male". The officer just wanted to check his ID to see if he had any warrants. The passenger was well within his rights to refuse to identify himself. He was not driving the vehicle, and there was no probable cause for the officer to ask him to step out of the vehicle, or search the vehicle. Further, the vehicle was pulled over on a bullshit moving violation of not having headlights on after dark, when the sun was clearly visible behind the officer throughout the video. This is exactly what black people have to deal with every day, it's bullshit, the justification for it is bullshit, and it needs to stop.
 
laughing dog said:
Loren Pechtel said:
Looks like plenty of blame for both sides here.

The cops are out of line but he started it.

Want the cops to treat you properly? Don't start shit!
Click to expand...
Do you have any evidence that this man did something to make the police stop the car? Because without such evidence, your claim this man "started it" is utter bullshit.
Click to expand...

I'm saying he started it when he refused to identify himself despite the cop thinking he looked like someone they were after.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
laughing dog said:
Do you have any evidence that this man did something to make the police stop the car? Because without such evidence, your claim this man "started it" is utter bullshit.
Click to expand...

I'm saying he started it when he refused to identify himself despite the cop thinking he looked like someone they were after.
Click to expand...
That ignores the obvious: that this entire incident would not have occurred if the police officer had not stopped the car for no real reason.
 
I'd be interested to know how this situation was eventually adjudicated. There is the fact that the officer identified the passenger as a possible felon, and that the driver had or produced no ID. But there's also questionable probable cause for the stop -- which could jeopardize any case the officer might bring.
The internet's full of videos like this, some ending badly, others with a frustrated officer letting the driver go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEjmfKJvMP4
 
A picture of Jeremy Newell
1302422.jpg

Picture of Andre Stockett
andre-stockett-2.jpg

Similar build, hair, beard. There appears to be a reasonable resemblance. Newell has wider cheek bones.

But I'm still curious on why the officer, by himself, approaches the car of a guy wanted for drug charges, assaulting an officer, resisting arrest.

One article notes that while calling in the license, he asks about the guys warrants. Shouldn't he have done that first before approaching the car?
 
thebeave said:
They look like they could be twins. I can see why the cop had his suspicions.
Click to expand...
But why in the heck is he approaching a vehicle with a guy wanted on drug charges, assaulting an officer, resisting arrest?!

The officer could have made a better case to the citizen and explain why showing his ID was in his own best interest.

It seems that some officers aren't taught how to deal with people. It also seems like he is lucky he didn't actually bump into Newell.
Nice Squirrel said:
thebeave said:
They look like they could be twins. I can see why the cop had his suspicions.
Click to expand...

Which would be why you call back up and get the arrest right.
Click to expand...
That is what he apparently did. Another car arrived after he called in about the warrants.

This situation appears to be about a guy that is pissed that they were pulled over, in his mind, because they were black. The officer is thinking he may have caught a guy with a long rap sheet, wanted on numerous charges. The officer thinks this guy is stonewalling him because he is who he is seeking. Meanwhile, the guy in the car knows there are no drugs in the car and his tact of not helping the officer who has a drug dog with them, is the correct one, they are trying to fuck them over.

Each person is reinforcing the other's initial suspicion. This is where the officer should have the training to be able to get the guy to play ball. But he fails.
laughing dog said:
Loren Pechtel said:
I'm saying he started it when he refused to identify himself despite the cop thinking he looked like someone they were after.
Click to expand...
That ignores the obvious: that this entire incident would not have occurred if the police officer had not stopped the car for no real reason.
Click to expand...
The Ohio license for the plates were expired. It is one of those technicalities you use when trying to apprehend someone you believe is wanted on warrants.
 
laughing dog said:
Loren Pechtel said:
I'm saying he started it when he refused to identify himself despite the cop thinking he looked like someone they were after.
Click to expand...
That ignores the obvious: that this entire incident would not have occurred if the police officer had not stopped the car for no real reason.
Click to expand...
He did have reason, as the plate came up to an owner with a expired licence.
 
Nice Squirrel said:
laughing dog said:
That ignores the obvious: that this entire incident would not have occurred if the police officer had not stopped the car for no real reason.
Click to expand...
He did have reason, as the plate came up to an owner with a expired licence.
Click to expand...

What made the car suspicious enough that the police officer decided to run the plates?

Did he run the plates before or after he pulled the driver (who was not a black man) over? Did the driver commit some traffic violation? Was it just 'suspicious' that a white (at least she looked white to me) woman was driving a car with a black male passenger? Now, 40 years ago, that would have been unusual. It isn't anymore, even in the 93% white, <2.0% black community where I live.
 
Toni said:
Nice Squirrel said:
He did have reason, as the plate came up to an owner with a expired licence.
Click to expand...
What made the car suspicious enough that the police officer decided to run the plates?
Click to expand...
He allegedly saw the man he thought was Newell enter the vehicle. Then he ran the plate.

Did he run the plates before or after he pulled the driver (who was not a black man) over? Did the driver commit some traffic violation? Was it just 'suspicious' that a white (at least she looked white to me) woman was driving a car with a black male passenger? Now, 40 years ago, that would have been unusual. It isn't anymore, even in the 93% white, <2.0% black community where I live.
Click to expand...
Please read my post above. I think it helps explain what happened, and it may be very a case of reasonable mistaken identity that was not handled as well as it could have.

One problem I have is that the woman in the vehicle was charged for this incident, which seems absurd based on the control the man in the car was asserting.
 
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