Are Bernie and Warren finally going to clash?

[laughing dog]

Too bad the "controversy" is all about what Bernie said but didn't actually say.

Since you were a witness to this meeting, what exactly transpired?

 

[repoman]

It's a so what. He said she said. Friends have disagreements all the time. CNN wants the click bait.

The Malaysian plane coverage and this zinger clip:

 

[Treedbear]

Warren just seems like a horrible person.

[xvideo=youtube;aNXujT4iHaM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNXujT4iHaM[/video]

Not horrible. Merely tactless and perhaps impetuous. I had hoped for better. Now I just hope it doesn't turn out that Sanders was actually outright lieing.

 

[PyramidHead]

All the he-said she-said of this story is irrelevant and an attempt to disguise the fact that Warren would have to have sat on this for over a year, all the while talking about how great Bernie is, and decided to drop it 2 days before a debate when her lead in the polls has all but evaporated and Sanders continues to surge. She has terrible political instincts and this debacle demonstrates it. It is also consistent with her repeatedly lying or embellishing to advance her goals. Sanders, in every poll, is consistently rated as the most trustworthy and consistent politician in the country. He has never attacked Warren on anything but her record and her policy agenda, which in a winner-take-all primary is what candidates must do. Warren is now noteworthy for launching perhaps the most vicious attack of the election race, not about Sanders' political ideas or how he intends to achieve them, but by recounting a private conversation from 18 months ago that smears the only candidate with a majority female base of support as a misogynist.

This can only harm Warren, as it makes her appear desperate and calculating. It also deeply harms the prospects of Sanders' large and diverse coalition of supporters casting a vote for Warren if she is the nominee, when just a few months ago everybody was pointing out that they should run a unity ticket. This move does nothing to unify the progressive base, nothing to chip away at the actual frontrunner, nothing to even boost Warren in the minds of voters she has yet to attract; the only thing it does is make Joe Biden, the man Warren became a progressive to oppose, more likely to choose Warren as his running mate if he gets the nomination. This is all about positioning and nothing to do with principles.

 

[jab]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/13/politics/bernie-sanders-elizabeth-warren-meeting/index.html

CNN looks to be stirring the pot in reporting a potential clash between Bernie and Warren, over (surprise surprise) identity politics.



So.... Bernie is sexist or something? Warren is a woman so vote for vagina? Hopefully the two candidates won't go there despite this coaxing by media. So far both have done a pretty good job of rising above this sort of thing. Unlike Hillary, Warren hasn't played the "Woman Card" very strongly. Its also good for the both of them that they stand together, to keep the progressive movement strong up against Biden, Buttigieg, Klobuchar, etc.

I hope they can both agree with Sanders that:



So... are Warren and Sanders finally going to clash? I hope not yet, if at all. But we should find out at the upcoming debate.

I know that a lot of white males are comforted by Bernie's words.

As for playing 'identity politics?' White and male has been the only identity that has counted throughout American history and before. It's not exactly progressive for Bernie and his bros to decide that it's all equal now and the only thing that matters is that things are going our way and that (old white) men are still in charge. Because that's really what they are saying. Notice in Bernie's examples, it's always a guy. It isn't that I think that Bernie is explicitly anti-woman or anti-black or anti-non-white. I just think that he only sees the world through his white old man eyes where what he is saying now was said 40+ years ago by other white men, albeit younger ones. I think he simply does not consider that there are other points of view, other perspectives that should be considered, much less sought or valued.

It's a major weakness.

ageist rant--its a major weakness that "white male" is now sometimes being used a dog whistle to project ageism.
lots of misogynist young and middle-aged males in USA

 

[Derec]

I think that Bernie is just plain too old to be an effective POTUS. That is absolutely disqualifying to me, as it is re: Biden.

I would absolutely agree with you on that. However, it is very likely the nomination will be decided between the two of them.

If Warren didn’t seem so sorry and so with it, I wouldn’t consider her at her age, either.

I think she is too old too, but not quite as too old as the Three Bs (Bernie, Biden, Bloomberg). Kinda funny that the top 5 for the nomination are four septuagenarians and somebody who is not even 40 years old.

It does if it was a disgruntled staff member of which there have been many.

Speculation can be fun, but there is zero evidence it was disgruntled Bernie staffers.

You are so good at reading the minds of women you don’t know!

It doesn't take a mind-reader to know that politicians do things they think will benefit them. Especially in the middle of a major race. And that holds true regardless of gender, no matter how much you want to play the gender card.

You must be beating them off with a stick.

Low blow, Toni. Real low!

And you and the other bros are assuming that Bernie told the truth. I think the case is better that Bernie lied.

1. I am not a "Bernie Bro". Not even close. I have criticized him a lot in other threads.
2. I do not assume any of the possibilities. I think the single most likely scenario is that they both remembered the conversation (that occurred about two years ago I believe) differently. Memory can be misleading. But I also think that this pretty old private conversation being brought up NOW is 100% due to the fact that we were three weeks to Iowa with Warren trailing in the polls and that she needs a Hail Mary.
3. I definitely think it is more likely that Warren is lying than that Bernie is lying. The reason is that Warren has a long history of lying or at least embellishing. She lied (or embellished if you want) that she was an Indian on her bar registration card and in faculty biography (not to mention that pow wow chow cookbook). She lied about her parents having to elope because her mother was half Cherokee and half Delaware. She lied about being fired for being pregnant. She downgraded her father's job from maintenance man to janitor, presumably because janitor is lowlier and thus sounds better on the stump.

People talk about how easy it is for a woman to ruin a man’s reputation.

Yes, it is very easy. Especially since feminists like you always automatically believe the woman, no matter what.

Warren’s description matches what the 4 anonymous sources said.

Not surprising, if they were from her camp.

Why do you think Bernie is telling the truth? How many witnesses does it take?

The sources are not witnesses. The conversation was a private one between Bernie and Lizzie. That would make what the sources are saying mere hearsay.

4 witnesses came forward. Warren did not. She just didn’t lie when asked.

They are not witnesses, and you are again assuming she is telling the truth and that Bernie is lying.
Also, it is very probable that the sources are with the Warren campaign and released the accusation as a Hail Mary pass ahead of Iowa.

 

[Derec]

ageist rant--its a major weakness that "white male" is now sometimes being used a dog whistle to project ageism.

Also sexism and racism. It implies that being white and being male makes you less than a "POC" female.

 

[Toni]

Warren just seems like a horrible person.

[xvideo=youtube;aNXujT4iHaM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNXujT4iHaM[/video]

Not horrible. Merely tactless and perhaps impetuous. I had hoped for better. Now I just hope it doesn't turn out that Sanders was actually outright lieing.

Really? I think Warren seems like a really nice person. Whip smart, hard working, able and willing to work with others. But she’s also not going to take crap. That seems to be a sticking point for some people.

I get the impression that for a bunch of people if it is proven that Bernie lied, that won’t be nearly as big an issue as Warren not letting him grab her hand.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Warren just seems like a horrible person.

[xvideo=youtube;aNXujT4iHaM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNXujT4iHaM[/video]

Not horrible. Merely tactless and perhaps impetuous. I had hoped for better. Now I just hope it doesn't turn out that Sanders was actually outright lieing.

Yes, she is a monster. Let's get back to praising the guy who assassinated an Iranian military official in order to get votes in an impeachment trial over his cover-up of the targeting of an American Ambassador to Ukraine, in an absurd mission to get the Ukrainian leader to announce an investigation against Biden for Electoral purposes.

 

[Derec]

[duplicate post]

 

[Derec]

Yes, she is a monster.

"Tactless" and "impetuous" translates to "monster"?
View attachment 25696
Since when?

Let's get back to praising the guy who assassinated an Iranian military official

Soleimani's Quds Force has the backing of the Iranian regime, but it is still a terrorist organization.
I am glad he has been eliminated. I wish that we were as successful with his buddy Abdul Reza Shahlai ...

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I get the impression that for a bunch of people if it is proven that Bernie lied, that won’t be nearly as big an issue as Warren not letting him grab her hand.

Of course you do. You're you.

But the reality is that if its proved that Bernie lied that would be quite a big deal indeed - since his reputation is very much built on his honesty. Even most of the Republicans who see him as their polar opposite and foe will tell you that they think he's honest - just completely wrong in their view.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Soleimani's Quds Force has the backing of the Iranian regime, but it is still a terrorist organization.

The USA defines "terrorist organization" as an organization that attacks civilians and is not a state actor. They add that last bit for a very self-serving reason.... without it, as you've done above... the USA military is the world's biggest terrorist organization. An organization that invades other countries killing their civilians with little regard and is headed by a man who famously said "we have to take out their families".

 

[Treedbear]

Warren just seems like a horrible person.

[xvideo=youtube;aNXujT4iHaM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNXujT4iHaM[/video]

Not horrible. Merely tactless and perhaps impetuous. I had hoped for better. Now I just hope it doesn't turn out that Sanders was actually outright lieing.

Really? I think Warren seems like a really nice person. Whip smart, hard working, able and willing to work with others. But she’s also not going to take crap. That seems to be a sticking point for some people.

I get the impression that for a bunch of people if it is proven that Bernie lied, that won’t be nearly as big an issue as Warren not letting him grab her hand.

So now you think Sanders wants to molest her hand. Wait until Trump hears that.

 

[Treedbear]

Warren just seems like a horrible person.

[xvideo=youtube;aNXujT4iHaM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNXujT4iHaM[/video]

Not horrible. Merely tactless and perhaps impetuous. I had hoped for better. Now I just hope it doesn't turn out that Sanders was actually outright lieing.

Yes, she is a monster. Let's get back to praising the guy who assassinated an Iranian military official in order to get votes in an impeachment trial over his cover-up of the targeting of an American Ambassador to Ukraine, in an absurd mission to get the Ukrainian leader to announce an investigation against Biden for Electoral purposes.

We have a thread for that.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

If Warren really wanted to get at Bernie, then instead of making up stories of sexism she should have referenced the Iowa staffer who was calling for Gulags.

Then again, there are a few reasons she wouldn't want to mention it.

 

[laughing dog]

I get the impression that for a bunch of people if it is proven that Bernie lied, that won’t be nearly as big an issue as Warren not letting him grab her hand.

Of course you do. You're you.

But the reality is that if its proved that Bernie lied that would be quite a big deal indeed - since his reputation is very much built on his honesty. Even most of the Republicans who see him as their polar opposite and foe will tell you that they think he's honest - just completely wrong in their view.

Nah, politicians misspeak, misremember and lie - just like other people. https://www.politifact.com/personalities/bernie-sanders/statements/byruling/false/ has a list of inaccurate and false statements by Mr. Sanders. Mr. Sanders continues to promote a misleading statistic on health care (https://www.factcheck.org/2019/10/sanders-misleads-on-family-health-care-costs/).

The reality is that no one in this thread knows what Mr. Sanders said or did not say to Ms. Warren. It is possible that someone who is completely unconnected to either campaign promoted this story. It is possible Ms. Warren had nothing to do with this story getting out. Yet the attacks on Ms. Warren's character in this thread are not based on fact but unfavorable assumptions about Ms. Warren and favorable assumptions about Mr. Sanders.

Now, I do not favor either Ms. Warren or Mr. Sanders as a candidate for the POTUS. But in this thread, it is obvious that the majority of posters are defending Mr. Sanders even though they have absolutely no evidence to support their view, and are attacking Ms. Warren even though they have no evidence to support their view.

 

[Toni]

Really? I think Warren seems like a really nice person. Whip smart, hard working, able and willing to work with others. But she’s also not going to take crap. That seems to be a sticking point for some people.

I get the impression that for a bunch of people if it is proven that Bernie lied, that won’t be nearly as big an issue as Warren not letting him grab her hand.

So now you think Sanders wants to molest her hand. Wait until Trump hears that.

Mindreading again? Thought we weren’t allowed to do that?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Really? I think Warren seems like a really nice person. Whip smart, hard working, able and willing to work with others. But she’s also not going to take crap. That seems to be a sticking point for some people.

I get the impression that for a bunch of people if it is proven that Bernie lied, that won’t be nearly as big an issue as Warren not letting him grab her hand.

So now you think Sanders wants to molest her hand. Wait until Trump hears that.

Mindreading again? Thought we weren’t allowed to do that?

Only you are allowed to do that Toni. You're special.

 

[PyramidHead]

"Grab her hand" holy fucking shit. President Xi, send the nukes