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Are Bernie and Warren finally going to clash?

laughing dog said:
Jolly_Penguin said:
Toni said:
I get the impression that for a bunch of people if it is proven that Bernie lied, that won’t be nearly as big an issue as Warren not letting him grab her hand.
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Of course you do. You're you.

But the reality is that if its proved that Bernie lied that would be quite a big deal indeed - since his reputation is very much built on his honesty. Even most of the Republicans who see him as their polar opposite and foe will tell you that they think he's honest - just completely wrong in their view.
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Nah, politicians misspeak, misremember and lie - just like other people. https://www.politifact.com/personalities/bernie-sanders/statements/byruling/false/ has a list of inaccurate and false statements by Mr. Sanders. Mr. Sanders continues to promote a misleading statistic on health care (https://www.factcheck.org/2019/10/sanders-misleads-on-family-health-care-costs/).

The reality is that no one in this thread knows what Mr. Sanders said or did not say to Ms. Warren. It is possible that someone who is completely unconnected to either campaign promoted this story. It is possible Ms. Warren had nothing to do with this story getting out. Yet the attacks on Ms. Warren's character in this thread are not based on fact but unfavorable assumptions about Ms. Warren and favorable assumptions about Mr. Sanders.

Now, I do not favor either Ms. Warren or Mr. Sanders as a candidate for the POTUS. But in this thread, it is obvious that the majority of posters are defending Mr. Sanders even though they have absolutely no evidence to support their view, and are attacking Ms. Warren even though they have no evidence to support their view.
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Yea, you're right. We're all speculating. However, it seems incredibly plausible that Bernie did tell Warren that he doesn't think that a woman can win an American Presidential election. Most of us probably agree. I think that anyone is very naïve if you think that women don't have a higher mountain to climb than a man to win elections. One thing that I've admired about Bernie is his honesty and frankness. I've been disappointed that he didn't own this most likely statement. And I don't see why Warren would make it up. Anyway, LD is right we don't know.
 
It is extremely doubtful that Sanders said a "woman can't win a US Presidential election". Had he been so brash, we would have seen a quote as such. He mostly likely, if anything, suggested that it'd be extremely hard for a woman to beat Trump in the 2020 election.

I think Warren is a getting a bit nervous with her polls slumping a little to the other progressive. She is suffering the same poll deflation that Harris suffered... after having a very good debate, making her wonder what else she needs to do. Sanders and Warren are fighting for the same overall group of people, though both seem to have staunch supporters that don't like the other very much. I ponder how much this is liberal stupidity, how much is subterfuge. I think both issues are in play.
 
Toni said:
Treedbear said:
Toni said:
Really? I think Warren seems like a really nice person. Whip smart, hard working, able and willing to work with others. But she’s also not going to take crap. That seems to be a sticking point for some people.

I get the impression that for a bunch of people if it is proven that Bernie lied, that won’t be nearly as big an issue as Warren not letting him grab her hand.
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So now you think Sanders wants to molest her hand. Wait until Trump hears that.
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Mindreading again? Thought we weren’t allowed to do that?
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Well then what am I supposed to make of you saying he wanted to "grab her hand" rather than the normal phrasing of "shake her hand"? If you keep making innuendos about people's motives and intentions we have to guess.
 
Is Toni a CNN or DNC bot? Just joking, but people with opposite opinions are being labeled as Russian bots.
 
Corporate media and Tucker Carlson are trying to prolong this story. The campaigns want to stop talking about it. That should be all you need to know.

If it's not, put it in perspective. Possible war with Iran in our future. An unhinged President that becomes more dictatorial with time. Tens of thousands of people being killed in wars still going on. Women's rights...women being abused and controlled. Men being abused and used as fodder in wars by that same patriarchy. Meanwhile, conservatives in the US want to transform our country into a banana republican theocracy.

And the planet is getting warmer and warmer. The fires will continue.

Think of this perspective. This is a verbal misunderstanding or miscommunication. On a scale of 1 to 100, it's a 0.2. Warren and Sanders have stopped the bickering already because they get how important progress is. No, how URGENT progress is. Other forces want you all to focus on this minor drama.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
It is extremely doubtful that Sanders said a "woman can't win a US Presidential election". Had he been so brash, we would have seen a quote as such. He mostly likely, if anything, suggested that it'd be extremely hard for a woman to beat Trump in the 2020 election.

I think Warren is a getting a bit nervous with her polls slumping a little to the other progressive. She is suffering the same poll deflation that Harris suffered... after having a very good debate, making her wonder what else she needs to do. Sanders and Warren are fighting for the same overall group of people, though both seem to have staunch supporters that don't like the other very much. I ponder how much this is liberal stupidity, how much is subterfuge. I think both issues are in play.
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Warren might be nervous about her slumping numbers.

But Bernie's numbers are surging. I don't think his performance was great in the debate, although he did manage to go a little beyond his usual schtict and sound as though he was responding instead of giving his talking points from 20 years ago.

Did Warren misplay this? I don't think she did. I don't think she lied and I am not so sure the leaks came from HER staff.

It is, imo, at least as likely as the leaks came from Bernie's (see all the allegations of sexism within his campaign) OR that someone on his campaign is especially devious about a way to tar Warren.

And it has worked. That's not surprising. Sadly.
 
Toni said:
Did Warren misplay this? I don't think she did. I don't think she lied and I am not so sure the leaks came from HER staff.

It is, imo, at least as likely as the leaks came from Bernie's (see all the allegations of sexism within his campaign) OR that someone on his campaign is especially devious about a way to tar Warren.
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It makes perfect sense that someone in the Bernie campaign would make up a story about Bernie being sexist, in a party where accusations of sexism are treated more severely. No way that could ever backfire. There's no way Warren would ever play the sexism card, having campaigned on being a woman as what is supposed to make her better than the other candidates.
 
Toni said:
It is, imo, at least as likely as the leaks came from Bernie's (see all the allegations of sexism within his campaign) OR that someone on his campaign is especially devious about a way to tar Warren.
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That doesn't sound "at least as likely". That sounds quite convoluted.

I think it is at least as likely that Sanders said A understanding it as B, Warren understood it as C. Ultimately, Don2 hits it on the head... this stuff is small potatoes. I'd rather Sanders' and Warren's campaign be dictated by their value as a candidate, not what the right-wing wants to try and goad on here about.

#comeonAmy!
 
Treedbear said:
Toni said:
Mindreading again? Thought we weren’t allowed to do that?
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Well then what am I supposed to make of you saying he wanted to "grab her hand" rather than the normal phrasing of "shake her hand"? If you keep making innuendos about people's motives and intentions we have to guess.
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I’m sorry: I let some unrelated real life irritation spill over. My threshold is usually higher than .05mm.

Side note: the no mind reading I think is intended to apply to fellow posters, not the public figures we take over the coals.
 
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Toni said:
Did Warren misplay this? I don't think she did. I don't think she lied and I am not so sure the leaks came from HER staff.

It is, imo, at least as likely as the leaks came from Bernie's (see all the allegations of sexism within his campaign) OR that someone on his campaign is especially devious about a way to tar Warren.
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It makes perfect sense that someone in the Bernie campaign would make up a story about Bernie being sexist, in a party where accusations of sexism are treated more severely. No way that could ever backfire. There's no way Warren would ever play the sexism card, having campaigned on being a woman as what is supposed to make her better than the other candidates.
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Bernie’s campaign staff has lots s of allegations of sexism—and of Bernie not dealing with it.

Warren’s face registered shock at Bernie’s denial and I don’t think that was faked. Again, it makes sense that Bernie expressed concerns over a woman running in 2020.

Men have always campaigned on being men and still are.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
It is extremely doubtful that Sanders said a "woman can't win a US Presidential election". Had he been so brash, we would have seen a quote as such. He mostly likely, if anything, suggested that it'd be extremely hard for a woman to beat Trump in the 2020 election.

I think Warren is a getting a bit nervous with her polls slumping a little to the other progressive. She is suffering the same poll deflation that Harris suffered... after having a very good debate, making her wonder what else she needs to do. Sanders and Warren are fighting for the same overall group of people, though both seem to have staunch supporters that don't like the other very much. I ponder how much this is liberal stupidity, how much is subterfuge. I think both issues are in play.
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I don't think Warren and Sanders supporters were that much at odds before now. What this accomplished if anything is to better ensure each doesn't vote for the others' candidate when theirs drops out. It's a big win for the other candidates. Biden must be smiling.
 
This is the second race in 30 years Warren has tried to steal.
 
Love how Cherokees apparently had access to crabs and mayonnaise despite being in landlocked Oklahoma and never having heard of mayo until white colonizers introduced it
 
PyramidHead said:
Love how Cherokees apparently had access to crabs and mayonnaise despite being in landlocked Oklahoma and never having heard of mayo until white colonizers introduced it
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Um, that is after the Trail of Tears. Before that they were in Georgia, so had access to the ocean.

As for the mayo, you're right. That is a very white people thing.
 
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