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Are there any "true" atheists?

The bible is said to be the nest selling book of all time.

Muslims disagree in an extremely rational way.


Translations of the Bible are the biggest selling book of all time. But that isn't the same as printings of the original.
The original Arabic Quran is far and away the biggest selling book of all time. No question.
Tom
What does that have to do with the price of eggs?

Sorry I responded to your post?
One of things that limited Islam from spreading in Europe was an issue with the printing press. They were concerned with errors.

The Gutenberg Bible (also known as the 42-line Bible, the Mazarin Bible or the B42) was the earliest major book printed using mass-produced movable metal type in Europe. It marked the start of the "Gutenberg Revolution" and the age of printed books in the West. The book is valued and revered for its high aesthetic and artistic qualities[1] as well as its historical significance. It is an edition of the Latin Vulgate printed in the 1450s by Johannes Gutenberg in Mainz, in present-day Germany. Forty-nine copies (or substantial portions of copies) have survived. They are thought to be among the world's most valuable books, although no complete copy has been sold since 1978.[2][3] In March 1455, the future Pope Pius II wrote that he had seen pages from the Gutenberg Bible displayed in Frankfurt to promote the edition, and that either 158 or 180 copies had been printed (he cited sources for both numbers).

The 36-line Bible, said to be the second printed Bible, is also sometimes referred to as a Gutenberg Bible, but may be the work of another printer.
Text

I doubt the Koran has near the same number of books printed compared to the bible.

However now that I think of it Hindu scripture might be worth looking at. It might compete with the bible in quantity.

I heard about the Muslim issues with the printing press on a show about the transfer of scince from Arabs and Persins to Europe.

Why did Muslims reject the printing press?
It is also said that Arabic is a complex script so to have letters that are all merging together would be difficult. Plus they viewed it as undignified for the Qur'an and Islamic books to be printed with a printing press.Oct 10, 2021

The world' major religions all stem form the ancient Jewish scripture. The same god.




Christians—2.2 billion followers (representing 31.5% of the world's population)
Muslims—1.6 billion (23.2%)
Non-religious people—1.1 billion (16.3%)
Hindus—1 billion (15.0%)
Buddhists—500 million (7.1%)
Indigenous religions—400 million (5.9%)
Other religions—58 million (0.8%)
 
If you're getting burnt out over the discussion, then you can always move on.
This is the kind of insulting post that results in people responding in kind.
No insult was intended on my part, and it's quite a stretch to insinuate that that was my intention. If somebody complains about a thread which can justifiably be construed as the actual insult, then the most obvious thing to tell the complainer is to move on.
Lemme ask you a question.
When you say, "True atheists believe that there is no God"
Where did I say that?
what do you mean by God?
Tom
When I actually do say something about God rather than when somebody else says I said something about God, I'm referring to the conscious, cosmic agent that the religious refer to as God.
 
And that includes the ideological dogmas that many atheists hold.

Which ones, specifically?
In the context of this thread we see the belief that atheists cannot believe in God as an emerging atheistic dogma. There's only testimonial evidence for it and there's evidence from science against it. Heck, some avowed atheists pray!
The OP topic question has been answered many times in different ways.
Answers aren't necessarily true or right, of course.
The thread topic now is "Why do you believe you know more about people on the internet than they know about themselves?"
Tom
Is that what scares people here?
 
The bible is said to be the nest selling book of all time.

Muslims disagree in an extremely rational way.


Translations of the Bible are the biggest selling book of all time. But that isn't the same as printings of the original.
The original Arabic Quran is far and away the biggest selling book of all time. No question.
Tom
LOL, I hadn’t thought of that angle before.

Christian: Bible is best selling book of all time!
Muslim: only in the translations. The original was kind of a dud there. Look at the Quran, though! Still printing in the original language!


How do other texts compare? Bhagavad Gita?
Fixed your post.

I understand how easy it is to make the mistake of believing that religion and christisnity are the same, here in the US.
Tom
Well, I was answering as if it were me, and I’m not a Muslima.
 
It is not an 'atheist' definition.

Oxford dictionary.


atheism

Quick Reference

The theory or belief that God does not exist. The word comes (in the late 16th century, via French) from Greek atheos, from a- ‘without’ + theos ‘god’.

From: atheism in The Oxford Dictionary of Phrase and Fable »

Subjects: Religion
Atheism, in the broadest sense, is an absence of belief in the existence of deities. Less broadly, atheism is a rejection of the belief that any deities exist. In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.

Historically, evidence of atheistic viewpoints can be traced back to classical antiquity and early Indian religions. In the Western world, atheism declined as Christianity gained prominence. However, during the Islamic Golden Age, notable philosophers emerged in Arab lands and Persia who explored atheistic ideas. The 16th century marked the resurgence of atheistic thought in Europe. The French Revolution, noted for its "unprecedented atheism", witnessed the first significant political movement in history to advocate for the supremacy of human reason.

Arguments for atheism range from philosophical to social and historical approaches. Rationales for not believing in deities include the lack of evidence,[1][2] the problem of evil, the argument from inconsistent revelations, the rejection of concepts that cannot be falsified, and the argument from nonbelief.[1][3] Nonbelievers contend that atheism is a more parsimonious position than theism and that everyone is born without beliefs in deities;[4] therefore, they argue that the burden of proof lies not on the atheist to disprove the existence of gods but on the theist to provide a rationale for theism.[5] Although some atheists have adopted secular philosophies (e.g. secular humanism),[6][7] there is no ideology or code of conduct to which all atheists adhere.[8]

Since conceptions of atheism vary, accurate estimations of current numbers of atheists are difficult. Scholars have indicated that global atheism may be in decline due to irreligious countries having the lowest birth rates in the world and religious countries having higher birth rates in general.[9][10][11]

Atheism like theism have variations in meaning of the terms depending on who you ask and how yiu frame the quetion.

Apparently Soldier has me on ignore, I womder...was it somethg I said?
 
And that includes the ideological dogmas that many atheists hold.

Which ones, specifically?
In the context of this thread we see the belief that atheists cannot believe in God as an emerging atheistic dogma.
What?
No. It is obvious to the mos casual observer that people who do not believe in any god(dess)(es) have existed for a long time.

It’s not dogma. There’s no text. Every one of them is completely independent of the others and no one cares how atheistic any of the pothers are. That’s sort of the definition of not-dogma. It’s just fact

Atheists exist. They don’t have any belief in any god(dess)(es)

There's only testimonial evidence for it and there's evidence from science against it. Heck, some avowed atheists pray!
The OP topic question has been answered many times in different ways.
Answers aren't necessarily true or right, of course.
Here you are calling us deluded or lying again.

Yes it’s true and yes it’s right because we are telling you our beliefs.
What is wrong with you? You ask a question, we answer, and you call us all liars or fools?
Are you a fundamentalist?

The thread topic now is "Why do you believe you know more about people on the internet than they know about themselves?"
Tom
Is that what scares people here?
Dood. We’re not scared. We’re turning our heads sideways and blinking in wonder at your confusion.

You asked our beliefs. We told you.
There is no reason under the sun for you to have a claim of superiority in knowledge over us about our own beliefs.

And you know that.
 
And that includes the ideological dogmas that many atheists hold.

Which ones, specifically?
In the context of this thread we see the belief that atheists cannot believe in God as an emerging atheistic dogma.
What?
No. It is obvious to the mos casual observer that people who do not believe in any god(dess)(es) have existed for a long time.
Why is that so obvious? Speaking for myself, I find it difficult to tell whether or not most people believe in a God. The lifestyles of avowed atheists and professed theists are essentially the same, for example, and both camps have beliefs that they defend with great tenacity.
It’s not dogma. There’s no text. Every one of them is completely independent of the others and no one cares how atheistic any of the pothers are. That’s sort of the definition of not-dogma. It’s just fact
Dogmas don't need to be written and neither do they need to depend on other dogmas. Dogmas result from the human quirk of needing some important truths that favor the believer. Dogmas are often illogical or dangerous and supported by little or no evidence and hence need to be upheld by fallacious arguments. If skepticism persists, then force is often employed to silence the skeptic(s).
Atheists exist. They don’t have any belief in any god(dess)(es)
Speaking of dogmas...
There's only testimonial evidence for it and there's evidence from science against it. Heck, some avowed atheists pray!
The OP topic question has been answered many times in different ways.
Answers aren't necessarily true or right, of course.
Here you are calling us deluded or lying again.
I'll let you be the judge of your own honesty and state of mind. I do hope you aren't trying to push me into trusting and believing everything posted in this forum. Religious people push others to believe them and trust them--especially when a dogma is being scrutinized.
Yes it’s true and yes it’s right because we are telling you our beliefs.
What is wrong with you?
I am just a terrible person.
You ask a question, we answer, and you call us all liars or fools?
Again--why am I obligated to believe what people post here?
Are you a fundamentalist?
Yes.
The thread topic now is "Why do you believe you know more about people on the internet than they know about themselves?"
Tom
Is that what scares people here?
Dood. We’re not scared. We’re turning our heads sideways and blinking in wonder at your confusion.
Just don't hurt your necks that way.
You asked our beliefs. We told you.
There is no reason under the sun for you to have a claim of superiority in knowledge over us about our own beliefs.

And you know that.
I know this might frighten you, but although I don't know for sure what your beliefs are, I have some good ideas!

Allow me to conclude this post--yet another awesome one--by saying I know how you feel. Like I mentioned on another one of my superb posts, I've been taunted by the religious who have told me I believe in God. I didn't like it and got upset, but when I calmed down, I realized that there could be some truth to it.
 
I'm just trying to get good answers to the question regarding the existence of "absolute" atheists--people who have no theistic leanings at all.
I think a good answer is "yes, they exist. why wouldn't they?"
True atheists obviously can't exist if theism is universal.
That’s a big if. And if “true atheists” exist then theism can’t be universal.

If the premise of your argument is that “theism is universal” then by definition true atheists can’t exist. However that premise is what we call an unproven assertion.
 
I'm just trying to get good answers to the question regarding the existence of "absolute" atheists--people who have no theistic leanings at all.
I think a good answer is "yes, they exist. why wouldn't they?"
True atheists obviously can't exist if theism is universal.
But you said you think they exist but are rare.
 
Your honor I object to the witness's statement that religion is universal and no true atheist exists, facts not in evidence and hear say. Previous witnesses have testified to being true atheists.

I move that the case against true atheists be dismissed on the grounds of insentient evidence to support an indictment. The prosecution has not made its case.
 
Your honor I object to the witness's statement that religion is universal and no true atheist exists, facts not in evidence and hear say. Previous witnesses have testified to being true atheists.

I move that the case against true atheists be dismissed on the grounds of insentient evidence to support an indictment. The prosecution has not made its case.
Wait. This got past a probable cause hearing??
 
There are atheists.
You are talking to them.
 
The bible is said to be the nest selling book of all time.

Muslims disagree in an extremely rational way.


Translations of the Bible are the biggest selling book of all time. But that isn't the same as printings of the original.
The original Arabic Quran is far and away the biggest selling book of all time. No question.
Tom
LOL, I hadn’t thought of that angle before.

Christian: Bible is best selling book of all time!
Muslim: only in the translations. The original was kind of a dud there. Look at the Quran, though! Still printing in the original language!


How do other texts compare? Bhagavad Gita?
Fixed your post.

I understand how easy it is to make the mistake of believing that religion and christisnity are the same, here in the US.
Tom
I'm not seeing any mistake here; Assuming ad argumentum that the Quran really is the best selling book, an atheist would respond the same way as a Muslim, though perhaps for different reasons.

The question of which book is the best seller of all time is an empirical one, that has a single factually correct answer. An educated and honest atheist (and of course not all atheists are those things) would give that answer because it was the factually correct answer.

A Muslim would also give that answer, possibly for the same reason, possibly just as a knee jerk defence of his religion over Christianity, or possibly for both reasons.

Nothing about religious belief makes the believer more likely to be correct; But equally, it doesn't make them any less able than anyone else to reach a correct conclusion by incorrect reasoning plus luck.

"The Quran must be the best selling book of all time, because I am a Muslim and I therefore must believe that Islam is the best answer to any question" is fallacious in a number of obvious ways, but the existence of people who argue in that style, makes zero difference to the fact that the untenable conclusion is, by pure luck, actually true in this particular case.

So both an atheist, and a Muslim, might give that same response. Anyone who knows and cares about facts would respond that way, whether Muslim, atheist, Christian or Hindu. And in addition, any one-eyed Muslim with zero regard for the facts would respond that way too.
 
I'm not seeing any mistake here; Assuming ad argumentum that the Quran really is the best selling book, an atheist would respond the same way as a Muslim, though perhaps for different reasons.
I was being more than a little bit facetiously nitpicky. ;)

But there was a bit of a point. Even apparently clear and simple words become more complex when someone with an agenda uses them. Words like "book" and "most".
Tom
 
Since when is theism universal?
If gods were real there wouldn't even be a word in our language describing people who think they are. All those alleged gods would be like any other objects. We don't have a word describing people who think that a tree is real because we don't need it.

"Atheism" is a religious word that derives out of rational necessity. Relatively speaking I suppose it's often taken as both challenge and insult by folks who may still believe in invisible trees with magical powers.
 
I'm not seeing any mistake here; Assuming ad argumentum that the Quran really is the best selling book, an atheist would respond the same way as a Muslim, though perhaps for different reasons.
I was being more than a little bit facetiously nitpicky. ;)

But there was a bit of a point. Even apparently clear and simple words become more complex when someone with an agenda uses them. Words like "book" and "most".
Tom

It's too late to edit so I'll just add "atheist" and "theist" to my list.
Tom
 
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