Are we headed to WW3?

[Loren Pechtel]

You started it by invading and annexing parts of Ukraine in 2014. There was no violence before that.

You started it by overthrowing democratically elected president and installing nazi regime.
Crym merely voted to leave nazi hell hole you created.

We did nothing. The Ukrainians threw out a Russian puppet and you reacted with an invasion.

 

[barbos]

We did nothing.

Yeah, right You did nothing. LOL

 

[RVonse]

I define a war monger as the politician who does everything they can to build military hardware and stoke the conflict of killing each other (it always takes 2 sides to fight a war), Especially when you are not fighting in your own defense. There can be an honest argument that WW2 was the exception to all the other past 50 year conflicts.... that being a war monger was the right thing to do. But there really is no argument that Roosevelt (unlike Lindbergh) wanted action and instead of isolation. It is in all the history books.

He was a war monger.

The old adage of it always taking two sides to fight a war is only meaningful if surrender is a reasonable option for one or both sides.

When the choices are fight or die (see Ukraine, Israel) it's not meaningful. Russia has already genocided Ukraine once and shown genocidal behavior in the current war. Think Ukraine can choose not to fight?

Surrender may not be meaningful for Ukraine or Israel but I was referring to US war mongers not the actors of the other countries.

For example, even if Israel has moral standing for their intended blowback.....why does the US have to pay for it by sending them more of our borrowed money? Is US not already dangerously high in debt.... and if you don't believe US debt is not already high enough.... why is there concern about social security and medicare being solvent? Why do we have debt ceiling wars in congress?? Is Israel (a very rich country) so poor they can not borrow any of their own money to purchase weapons like the US does when it goes to war???? Has Israel reached limits to their own financial destruction even close to where the US is today (150% GNP)? Why would you believe an ally to Israel (US) have to financially destroy itself in order to provide more weapons for an already rich and successful country who has superior credit worthiness for THEIR OWN conflict? Why does an ally (US) have to destroy itself financially if its own citizens will not be directly dying in this conflict?

Honest questions for any war mongers (either party) out there.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I define a war monger as the politician who does everything they can to build military hardware and stoke the conflict of killing each other (it always takes 2 sides to fight a war), Especially when you are not fighting in your own defense. There can be an honest argument that WW2 was the exception to all the other past 50 year conflicts.... that being a war monger was the right thing to do. But there really is no argument that Roosevelt (unlike Lindbergh) wanted action and instead of isolation. It is in all the history books.

He was a war monger.

The old adage of it always taking two sides to fight a war is only meaningful if surrender is a reasonable option for one or both sides.

When the choices are fight or die (see Ukraine, Israel) it's not meaningful. Russia has already genocided Ukraine once and shown genocidal behavior in the current war. Think Ukraine can choose not to fight?

Surrender may not be meaningful for Ukraine or Israel but I was referring to US war mongers not the actors of the other countries.

For example, even if Israel has moral standing for their intended blowback.....why does the US have to pay for it by sending them more of our borrowed money? Is US not already dangerously high in debt.... and if you don't believe US debt is not already high enough.... why is there concern about social security and medicare being solvent? Why do we have debt ceiling wars in congress?? Is Israel (a very rich country) so poor they can not borrow any of their own money to purchase weapons like the US does when it goes to war???? Has Israel reached limits to their own financial destruction even close to where the US is today (150% GNP)? Why would you believe an ally to Israel (US) have to financially destroy itself in order to provide more weapons for an already rich and successful country who has superior credit worthiness for THEIR OWN conflict? Why does an ally (US) have to destroy itself financially if its own citizens will not be directly dying in this conflict?

Honest questions for any war mongers (either party) out there.

Rvonse: I can understand and respect your position as an isolationist. I think that it's faulty reasoning. And I think that it's very bad policy for Americans (let alone our allies); but I respect your position. However, to call people who favor internationalism and defensive alliances to prevent war as "war mongering" is totally off base. If we pulled out of Nato (a defensive alliance); all of Eastern Europe would be at war. There is no doubt about that. Our alliances in Asia are holding back an aggressive China. There would be far more war today if alliances were unraveled.

 

[TomC]

Is US not already dangerously high in debt.... and if you don't believe US debt is not already high enough....

Guess what? The government is deep in debt because billionaires like Trump are "too smart" to pay taxes. That's why, not because Americans are poor.

I do agree with you about aid to Israel. We should have cut them off decades ago. At the very least, cut them off until they end the West Bank settlements and dismantle a bunch of them. After that, there'd probably be little need for our help anyway.
Tom

 

[Elixir]

Is US not already dangerously high in debt....

What happens when debt is "too high"?

(Hint: NOTHING)

Trump ran up record deficits and debt (added $7.8 TRILLION) with his trillion-plus dollar giveaway to the rich and "conservative" fiscal policies. How did that impact the economy, Swiz? And what did WE get for our additional $7.8T?
I predict that you won't try to answer that. I think Putin could list some benefits though...

 

[Loren Pechtel]

For example, even if Israel has moral standing for their intended blowback.....why does the US have to pay for it by sending them more of our borrowed money? Is US not already dangerously high in debt.... and if you don't believe US debt is not already high enough.... why is there concern about social security and medicare being solvent? Why do we have debt ceiling wars in congress?? Is Israel (a very rich country) so poor they can not borrow any of their own money to purchase weapons like the US does when it goes to war???? Has Israel reached limits to their own financial destruction even close to where the US is today (150% GNP)? Why would you believe an ally to Israel (US) have to financially destroy itself in order to provide more weapons for an already rich and successful country who has superior credit worthiness for THEIR OWN conflict? Why does an ally (US) have to destroy itself financially if its own citizens will not be directly dying in this conflict?

Honest questions for any war mongers (either party) out there.

Rvonse: I can understand and respect your position as an isolationist. I think that it's faulty reasoning. And I think that it's very bad policy for Americans (let alone our allies); but I respect your position. However, to call people who favor internationalism and defensive alliances to prevent war as "war mongering" is totally off base. If we pulled out of Nato (a defensive alliance); all of Eastern Europe would be at war. There is no doubt about that. Our alliances in Asia are holding back an aggressive China. There would be far more war today if alliances were unraveled.

Exactly. Fundamentally, alliances are about preventing a defeat in detail and thus preventing the fight from ever starting. It's not the warmonger path!

 

[Harry Bosch]

For example, even if Israel has moral standing for their intended blowback.....why does the US have to pay for it by sending them more of our borrowed money? Is US not already dangerously high in debt.... and if you don't believe US debt is not already high enough.... why is there concern about social security and medicare being solvent? Why do we have debt ceiling wars in congress?? Is Israel (a very rich country) so poor they can not borrow any of their own money to purchase weapons like the US does when it goes to war???? Has Israel reached limits to their own financial destruction even close to where the US is today (150% GNP)? Why would you believe an ally to Israel (US) have to financially destroy itself in order to provide more weapons for an already rich and successful country who has superior credit worthiness for THEIR OWN conflict? Why does an ally (US) have to destroy itself financially if its own citizens will not be directly dying in this conflict?

Honest questions for any war mongers (either party) out there.

Rvonse: I can understand and respect your position as an isolationist. I think that it's faulty reasoning. And I think that it's very bad policy for Americans (let alone our allies); but I respect your position. However, to call people who favor internationalism and defensive alliances to prevent war as "war mongering" is totally off base. If we pulled out of Nato (a defensive alliance); all of Eastern Europe would be at war. There is no doubt about that. Our alliances in Asia are holding back an aggressive China. There would be far more war today if alliances were unraveled.

Exactly. Fundamentally, alliances are about preventing a defeat in detail and thus preventing the fight from ever starting. It's not the warmonger path!

Yes, the vast majority of wars are started when a larger country thinks that it can take over a smaller country. This can be discouraged if smaller countries band together for mutual defense.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Is US not already dangerously high in debt....

What happens when debt is "too high"?

(Hint: NOTHING)

Trump ran up record deficits and debt (added $7.8 TRILLION) with his trillion-plus dollar giveaway to the rich and "conservative" fiscal policies. How did that impact the economy, Swiz? And what did WE get for our additional $7.8T?
I predict that you won't try to answer that. I think Putin could list some benefits though...

I would think at some point the financial markets will not be able to absorb all this debt, so we will reach a point where interest rates will have to increase to make the debt more attractive to investors. Does it all cascade from there? I'm not sure how it will all play out but why do I keep seeing Mr. Creosote being offered a wafer-thin mint?

 

[bilby]

Is US not already dangerously high in debt.... and if you don't believe US debt is not already high enough.... why is there concern about social security and medicare being solvent? Why do we have debt ceiling wars in congress??

Concern about a problem is rarely proportional to the size of that problem, and frequently exists even when no problem exists to be concerned about.

You have concern about social security and medicare being solvent, for the exact same reason that you have concern that homosexuality may lead to tornadoes - lots of stupid people believe stupid things about subjects they don't understand at all, but which they sincerely believe that they do understand, in great detail.

Few congressmen are economists, meteorologists, or atheists. They believe nonsense, and they fight for their nonsense to be used as the basis of legislation. The existence of such fights is not in any way evidence that they aren't wildly wrong about the things they're fighting for.

 

[Patooka]

Why do we have debt ceiling wars in congress??

Look at the type of people who participate in them the loudest and how consistently misinformed they are. If you actually knew what the debt ceiling does, you'd realise it's a really bad name for it. But it's what everyone calls so it can reduced to soundbites on Twitter so here we are.

 

[Elixir]

I would think at some point the financial markets will not be able to absorb all this debt, so we will reach a point where interest rates will have to increase to make the debt more attractive to investors. Does it all cascade from there?

Nah, the increased interest rates constrict the money supply (for everyone except the very rich, who become the lenders, in effect) and slow the economy, until lowering the interest rates becomes the obvious "solution" du jour.