Are You Fucking Kidding Me?

[Loren Pechtel]

Having a meltdown is not assault, period.

The point of there being no need of physical contact is that assault is the attempt, battery is success.

Thus, the guy at college who spat at a woman but missed was arrested for assault. (I saw the cops haul him off. He didn't understand why--he had missed.)

An autistic 10 year old, with a past behavioral history we are completely in the dark about, having a meltdown isn't necessarily assault or battery, but more importantly it shouldn't be treated as assault or battery. THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT SHOULDN'T BE TREATED OR TAKEN SERIOUSLY!

And you have some evidence the meltdown didn't involve attacking someone??

 

[laughing dog]

An autistic 10 year old, with a past behavioral history we are completely in the dark about, having a meltdown isn't necessarily assault or battery, but more importantly it shouldn't be treated as assault or battery. THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT SHOULDN'T BE TREATED OR TAKEN SERIOUSLY!

And you have some evidence the meltdown didn't involve attacking someone??

Do you have any actual evidence that the meltdown did?

 

[LordKiran]

An autistic 10 year old, with a past behavioral history we are completely in the dark about, having a meltdown isn't necessarily assault or battery, but more importantly it shouldn't be treated as assault or battery. THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT SHOULDN'T BE TREATED OR TAKEN SERIOUSLY!

And you have some evidence the meltdown didn't involve attacking someone??

Do you know how hard it is to get 24/7 surveillance in a classroom? They wouldn't even take our idea to put microphones underneath the erasers of no. 2 pencils.

- - - Updated - - -

And you have some evidence the meltdown didn't involve attacking someone??

Do you have any actual evidence that the meltdown did?

You're doing it wrong. You don't dignify inane questions with a serious answer. You respond with an equally inane answer that signals to him that it isn't taken seriously.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

An autistic 10 year old, with a past behavioral history we are completely in the dark about, having a meltdown isn't necessarily assault or battery, but more importantly it shouldn't be treated as assault or battery. THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT SHOULDN'T BE TREATED OR TAKEN SERIOUSLY!

And you have some evidence the meltdown didn't involve attacking someone??

Typically you need intent for a crime and age is always a factor. Otherwise our prisons would be filled with toddlers and young children.

Get a fucking clue!

 

[credoconsolans]

"Melt down"? Is that your euphemism for assault?



They shouldn't be striking anyone. Neither the teacher/teacher's aid nor the student signed on to be physically assaulted at school.

What about when the child has a melt down at home and strikes a parent? Same thing? Arrest/jail, right? Because clearly it's exactly the same as if a 40 year old strikes a 45 year old.

You must live in a very nice world, Toni. I worked with a woman who had her 12 year old step daughter institutionalized because she was violent to them and was starting to beat her infant sister. The child's instability was a result of fetal alcohol syndrome.

And lastly, what should happen to a teacher who strikes a student? Arrest and jail, right?

Punches a kid for no reason? Absolutely. They're mentally unstable and need to be locked up.

That is what you were trying to do, right? Pretend the teacher's suffering wasn't important? That what she felt and experienced doesn't count?

Not at all. What should happen is actions that are developmentally appropriate and within scale (temporal as well as in keeping with the actual damage and potential for damage) to the event.

"Scale"? OK, that's called trivializing someone else's problems. They're on a sliding scale with you. Sorry, they don't agree with your standards.

The teacher pressed charges. Obviously he didn't just slap her hand.

No, it's not at all obvious. I'm not a teacher but I spent years in all kinds of classrooms. There is a tremendous variety in tolerance, attitude, aptitude, and skill set among teachers for dealing with all kinds of classroom situations. Some teachers are on the low end of the spectrum in terms of being able to diffuse situations that might escalate from barely on the register to something major; some teachers actively--and I mean ACTIVELY--seek to escalate conflict, to provoke conflict, to provoke violence.

Teachers are fully human. Students are fully human. All are flawed. Teachers are supposedly adults who are well educated and who are well trained. And who should know how to control their own behaviors and how to elicit good behavior from their students. Who are children and learning self control.

Working with children with developmental or behavioral issues? Multiply that times 10. At least. On a good day.

So, you must have seen children attack teachers right? You've seen so much? My mother did. She worked in a grade school. She saw kids going after teachers and male principals with kicks to the groin and bites.

But I'm sure you've seen that too with all your experience.

And there are all levels of autism and yes, some of them the kids are violent. One of my bosses treats autistic spectrum children.

There is no such thing as a 'violent level of autism.' Good for your boss. How many kids did she have arrested in the past academic year? How old is the youngest kid she sent off in handcuffs?

My mistake. I put the wrong word there. There, fixed it.. I said 'treats'. She's a doctor.

Yeah, you managed to not answer a single question.

Should a pre-schooler who slaps or kicks a teacher be arrested and taken to jail in hand cuffs? What if it's her parents?

I think I did. When my co-worker had her step daughter taken by the state and put in a mental institution for being violent to her and her husband and her infant sister, I supported her in that.

As for 'pre-schooler'...really? Hyperbole much? You're comparing a toddler to a 10 year old?

I live in a world where my kids and kids I worked with have parents who have been convicted murderers, thieves, drug users, drug dealers, rapists, domestic abusers, child abusers and more. When I lived in fear that the 'father' who had been recently released from prison where he served a too short sentence for raping his wife/mother of my kid's classmate would show up at school and open fire, as he threatened to do. Oh, after a few days, he was arrested and jailed again, but in the meantime. My kid was in first grade. Oh, and my other kid: one of his classmates was orphaned when her father murdered her mother in front of the police officers who had escorted her to their home so that she could remove some belongings because she had taken the kids and fled for safety. The father killed himself in jail.

I live in a world where my friend saw the 18 month old in the house across the street bounced off of walls--literally, bounced off of walls---and the police refused to take action. No surprise that this kid had major anger issues in kindergarten. And was in a program for mentally disturbed GRADESCHOOLERS by 4th grade. Which made me really shudder to think what happened in the home of a different kid whose stepfather was arrested for malicious endangerment of a child. A couple of years later, this same kid made credible--and I mean very credible--threats to murder my kid. Who was 12 and under 5 ft tall, maybe 80 lbs. Went to court for that. FF a few years and he did some serious time for attempted murder. The really sad thing? He was smart--very! and handsome and an extremely talented athlete. Who could not overcome the abuse at home. I think eventually, he has done better. He's out of prison, now, I think. More than one of my kids' classmates ended up in prison for violent crimes, themselves. A few of them had hung out at my house on multiple occasions.

My kid was threatened with being killed, set on fire, someone tried to drown him at school and I lost track of the times someone tried to push him into oncoming traffic. I had a kid (not mine) crying at my table because a teacher had dumped a waste can over the head of another kid in class--school claimed it didn't happen, but enough kids who were in that class, with enough other stories made it very credible. Didn't tell his own parents because, well, they were likely not sober enough or were in bed with someone or another. But he told me and the school refused to acknowledge that anything happened. Same teacher had a bad enough reputation for long enough that the MOTHERS of kids my kids' age warned us new to town mothers to never allow our daughters to be alone with the teacher. Oh, he was allowed to teach until he decided to retire. Teacher who refused to allow my kid to pass down the hallway to his next class so he could hear her tell me that he was disorganized. She knocked his books and papers out of his arms and then said: See! Happens all the time. Who knew nothing--and I mean nothing--about the science curriculum she was supposedly teaching in 6th grade. The teachers who taught classes or 'taught classes' drunk. Who insulted and ridiculed students for an assortment of reasons. Or 'reasons.' Meaning no reason is good enough to treat a student that way. None of which the schools would acknowledge happened, much less address.

My kids had the advantage of having parents who are well educated and who were willing and able to spend time at schools, advocating for schools, for ALL kids, for being present. So, relatively speaking, they got the best from teachers. Not many of the kids they went to school with had that.

Don't get me wrong: I have a lot of teachers in my family. And some of the very best people I know in the world have been my kids' teachers. Almost entirely, the issues any of my kids came from other kids, usually with parents with some pretty questionable life skills, parenting skills and compromised sobriety and massive anger issues. But never, not once, not even the kid who threatened (credibly) to set my kid on fire or the other kid who threatened (credibly) to kill my kid--or the kid who tried to drown--and I mean: drown! my kid--never did I advocate for them to be arrested and taken to jail. Not once. And none of these were autistic kids, who really need specially trained teachers and staff.

So basically what I got from this is you support my stance, unless a child is caught early and strongly dissuaded from violence, they're only going to get worse.

 

[credoconsolans]

Because of course, children never lie or exaggerate or imagine things or lash out, right? Especially kids who have mental issues?

Are you claiming that adults never lie? Especially adults who may be abusing a child in their charge?

Nope. Adults lie too. So why are you instantly on the side of the student when both parties are equally capable of lying?

The bottom line is that you have decided that this 10-year-old child is guilty of assault, but you have ZERO evidence to support your opinion. Furthermore, your original stupid justification was the protection of the teacher (actually an aide) even though said aide is clearly not in any danger whatsoever from an alleged incident that happened 6 months prior. The fact that this aide waited SIX MONTHS to insist the 10-year-old child be arrested is highly suspicious, in my opinion.

Sorry, life experience. Too many stories of school district friends and teacher relatives being attacked by students to instantly assume any child is automatically the victim.

Educate yourself, Raven. Read the link, check out autism spectrum disorders. You don't seem to know much about it.

I clearly know one hell of a lot more than you do about it.

Obviously not. You didn't even know autistic children could be violent.

- - - Updated - - -

The person pressing charges against this 10-year-old child was a male aide.

Credoconsolans clearly knows less than zero about the actual details of this case.

She He.

There, better?

Don't get so smug. When I first read the story, the gender of the person who filed charges against the student wasn't revealed.

- - - Updated - - -

No, I'm comparing people who assault other people.

Surely you don't think just because he's 10 years old he can't hurt someone? I once listened to a grown woman who was upset because she'd been mugged outside a strip mall by a bunch of grade school kids with pocket knives. but they're just kids, right? Can't hurt anyone...right?

Earth to Raven!

Good job trying to trivialize what the kid did to the teacher.

That is what you were trying to do, right? Pretend the teacher's suffering wasn't important? That what she felt and experienced doesn't count?

The teacher pressed charges. Obviously he didn't just slap her hand.

And there are all levels of autism and yes, some of them are violent. One of my bosses treats autistic spectrum children.


The first approach, when one is confronted with SIB/A, is to try to determine why the child is engaging in those activities. Is it pain or frustration that is causing the child to strike out at himself or at others? One nonverbal child was severely self-injurious from age 2 to 18, when it was discovered that he had been suffering from a very painful mastoid infection. Many medical examinations had failed to disclose this source of severe pain. Try to find a physician who is the parent of an autistic or other handicapped child to do an extremely careful medical exam to determine if there is a cause of pain underlying the intolerable behavior. Tim Buie, M.D., has found that undetected stomach pain has caused SIB in his autistic patients.

A good deal of time and attention have been devoted to methods of dealing with these problems, including:

Behavior modification using positive enforcement only. This approach is certainly to be recommended if and when it works, but there are many instances when it does not work. A review of the literature by the Association for Persons With Severe Handicaps (TASH) found that positive reinforcement is effective approximately 60% of the time. We are concerned with the other 40%.

https://www.autism.com/treating_self-injurious

Educate my self? I don't see anything in your link that says call the cops and send the kid to jail.

No, about autistic children. People on this thread are woefully uninformed on the subject.

 

[RavenSky]

Are you claiming that adults never lie? Especially adults who may be abusing a child in their charge?

Nope. Adults lie too. So why are you instantly on the side of the student when both parties are equally capable of lying?

I am instantly on the side of thinking your original claim that this aide was in danger SIX MONTHS LATER was fucking stupid.

The bottom line is that you have decided that this 10-year-old child is guilty of assault, but you have ZERO evidence to support your opinion. Furthermore, your original stupid justification was the protection of the teacher (actually an aide) even though said aide is clearly not in any danger whatsoever from an alleged incident that happened 6 months prior. The fact that this aide waited SIX MONTHS to insist the 10-year-old child be arrested is highly suspicious, in my opinion.

Sorry, life experience. Too many stories of school district friends and teacher relatives being attacked by students to instantly assume any child is automatically the victim.

Both my sister and my daughter have worked with special needs children, specifically including children with autism. In fact, my daughter was employed as a school aide to a girl about the same age as the boy in the OP. I really don't care what you claim your life experiences are, arresting a 10-year-old child six months after the alleged incident is fucking stupid.

Educate yourself, Raven. Read the link, check out autism spectrum disorders. You don't seem to know much about it.

I clearly know one hell of a lot more than you do about it.

Obviously not. You didn't even know autistic children could be violent.

As I said, I clearly know one hell of a lot more about it than you do. Your pitiful attempts to be insulting is ineffective because I know what my experience is. You don't.

The person pressing charges against this 10-year-old child was a male aide.

Credoconsolans clearly knows less than zero about the actual details of this case.

She He.

There, better?

Don't get so smug. When I first read the story, the gender of the person who filed charges against the student wasn't revealed.

It's not my fault you spouted off with a bunch of stupid statements about a situation that you didn't even bother to read up on first.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Are you claiming that adults never lie? Especially adults who may be abusing a child in their charge?

Nope. Adults lie too. So why are you instantly on the side of the student when both parties are equally capable of lying?

The bottom line is that you have decided that this 10-year-old child is guilty of assault, but you have ZERO evidence to support your opinion. Furthermore, your original stupid justification was the protection of the teacher (actually an aide) even though said aide is clearly not in any danger whatsoever from an alleged incident that happened 6 months prior. The fact that this aide waited SIX MONTHS to insist the 10-year-old child be arrested is highly suspicious, in my opinion.

Sorry, life experience. Too many stories of school district friends and teacher relatives being attacked by students to instantly assume any child is automatically the victim.

Educate yourself, Raven. Read the link, check out autism spectrum disorders. You don't seem to know much about it.

I clearly know one hell of a lot more than you do about it.

Obviously not. You didn't even know autistic children could be violent.

- - - Updated - - -

The person pressing charges against this 10-year-old child was a male aide.

Credoconsolans clearly knows less than zero about the actual details of this case.

She He.

There, better?

Don't get so smug. When I first read the story, the gender of the person who filed charges against the student wasn't revealed.

- - - Updated - - -

No, I'm comparing people who assault other people.

Surely you don't think just because he's 10 years old he can't hurt someone? I once listened to a grown woman who was upset because she'd been mugged outside a strip mall by a bunch of grade school kids with pocket knives. but they're just kids, right? Can't hurt anyone...right?

Earth to Raven!

Good job trying to trivialize what the kid did to the teacher.

That is what you were trying to do, right? Pretend the teacher's suffering wasn't important? That what she felt and experienced doesn't count?

The teacher pressed charges. Obviously he didn't just slap her hand.

And there are all levels of autism and yes, some of them are violent. One of my bosses treats autistic spectrum children.


The first approach, when one is confronted with SIB/A, is to try to determine why the child is engaging in those activities. Is it pain or frustration that is causing the child to strike out at himself or at others? One nonverbal child was severely self-injurious from age 2 to 18, when it was discovered that he had been suffering from a very painful mastoid infection. Many medical examinations had failed to disclose this source of severe pain. Try to find a physician who is the parent of an autistic or other handicapped child to do an extremely careful medical exam to determine if there is a cause of pain underlying the intolerable behavior. Tim Buie, M.D., has found that undetected stomach pain has caused SIB in his autistic patients.

A good deal of time and attention have been devoted to methods of dealing with these problems, including:

Behavior modification using positive enforcement only. This approach is certainly to be recommended if and when it works, but there are many instances when it does not work. A review of the literature by the Association for Persons With Severe Handicaps (TASH) found that positive reinforcement is effective approximately 60% of the time. We are concerned with the other 40%.

https://www.autism.com/treating_self-injurious

Educate my self? I don't see anything in your link that says call the cops and send the kid to jail.

No, about autistic children. People on this thread are woefully uninformed on the subject.

You don't seem to understand the case or what people here are saying. I'm not certain if anyone here ever stated autistic children don't have fits that can become violent. The question is how to deal with it. Zip tying a 10 yr old and detaining them over night, over a 4 month old incident doesn't make any fucking sense.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Educate my self? I don't see anything in your link that says call the cops and send the kid to jail.

And here we are. A 10 year old with Autism. Even if this child is more prone to violent outbursts and the parent isn't doing enough to deal with this, the question is, what is the best way to try and reconcile both the results of an outburst and trying to prevent future ones.

You want to involve the police to teach consequences? That doesn't seem like a bad idea, as long as it is constructive and informative and compassionate! What does seem like a bad idea is zip typing a child that doesn't like being touched and holding him over night. This would be a last resort performed to ensure the safety of those that'd be around the child who's safety is imminently in danger.

That didn't happen here. What happened was stupid, no one was thinking, and nothing constructive resulted.

 

[LordKiran]

Educate my self? I don't see anything in your link that says call the cops and send the kid to jail.

And here we are. A 10 year old with Autism. Even if this child is more prone to violent outbursts and the parent isn't doing enough to deal with this, the question is, what is the best way to try and reconcile both the results of an outburst and trying to prevent future ones.

You want to involve the police to teach consequences? That doesn't seem like a bad idea, as long as it is constructive and informative and compassionate! What does seem like a bad idea is zip typing a child that doesn't like being touched and holding him over night. This would be a last resort performed to ensure the safety of those that'd be around the child who's safety is imminently in danger.

That didn't happen here. What happened was stupid, no one was thinking, and nothing constructive resulted.

Ideally teachers who work with special needs children should be able to handle that. In practical terms however, this can be a lot to ask of someone who already requires a college degree on top of a bunch of extra training, on top of shitty pay. I guess worst case scenario, the school nurse should know how to handle this situation. I just think that under extreme circumstances, police should be able to restrain the child until he calms down or until parents are on the scene. Though I completely disagree with how this particular situation played out on principle, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to have police involved if that's what it comes to.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And here we are. A 10 year old with Autism. Even if this child is more prone to violent outbursts and the parent isn't doing enough to deal with this, the question is, what is the best way to try and reconcile both the results of an outburst and trying to prevent future ones.

You want to involve the police to teach consequences? That doesn't seem like a bad idea, as long as it is constructive and informative and compassionate! What does seem like a bad idea is zip typing a child that doesn't like being touched and holding him over night. This would be a last resort performed to ensure the safety of those that'd be around the child who's safety is imminently in danger.

That didn't happen here. What happened was stupid, no one was thinking, and nothing constructive resulted.

Ideally teachers who work with special needs children should be able to handle that. In practical terms however, this can be a lot to ask of someone who already requires a college degree on top of a bunch of extra training, on top of shitty pay. I guess worst case scenario, the school nurse should know how to handle this situation. I just think that under extreme circumstances, police should be able to restrain the child until he calms down or until parents are on the scene. Though I completely disagree with how this particular situation played out on principle, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to have police involved if that's what it comes to.

Except in the most extreme of circumstances, one shouldn't need the police to handle a 10 year old autistic child in a school, because they are most likely the most ill equipped and poorly trained to handle a 10 year old autistic child.

 

[LordKiran]

Ideally teachers who work with special needs children should be able to handle that. In practical terms however, this can be a lot to ask of someone who already requires a college degree on top of a bunch of extra training, on top of shitty pay. I guess worst case scenario, the school nurse should know how to handle this situation. I just think that under extreme circumstances, police should be able to restrain the child until he calms down or until parents are on the scene. Though I completely disagree with how this particular situation played out on principle, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to have police involved if that's what it comes to.

Except in the most extreme of circumstances, one shouldn't need the police to handle a 10 year old autistic child in a school, because they are most likely the most ill equipped and poorly trained to handle a 10 year old autistic child.

You would think so, but then when was the last time you've been to school? Keep in mind that this whole incident started at the behest of a teacher's aid wanting some 'justice'. So with that in mind, you really have no reason to think the teachers would treat him much better. From where I sit, you have 50/50 odds that the child will be mishandled and injured no matter which option you take, so what difference does it honestly make? At least with police officers there's a better chance that the people restraining said child will be physically fit enough to do so without exerting too much effort or hurting him.

 

[RavenSky]

And here we are. A 10 year old with Autism. Even if this child is more prone to violent outbursts and the parent isn't doing enough to deal with this, the question is, what is the best way to try and reconcile both the results of an outburst and trying to prevent future ones.

You want to involve the police to teach consequences? That doesn't seem like a bad idea, as long as it is constructive and informative and compassionate! What does seem like a bad idea is zip typing a child that doesn't like being touched and holding him over night. This would be a last resort performed to ensure the safety of those that'd be around the child who's safety is imminently in danger.

That didn't happen here. What happened was stupid, no one was thinking, and nothing constructive resulted.

Ideally teachers who work with special needs children should be able to handle that. In practical terms however, this can be a lot to ask of someone who already requires a college degree on top of a bunch of extra training, on top of shitty pay. I guess worst case scenario, the school nurse should know how to handle this situation. I just think that under extreme circumstances, police should be able to restrain the child until he calms down or until parents are on the scene. Though I completely disagree with how this particular situation played out on principle, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to have police involved if that's what it comes to.

Not six months after the fact, though.

I note your comment that I bolded - yes, maybe in an extreme circumstance of immediate and genuine danger to the child or to other people that the school officials are for some reason not properly trained to handle, I suppose calling the police as a last resort would not be entirely unreasonable. But frankly, that outcome will most likely be very poor because school officials should be trained to even higher standards that police officers on handling children.

That said, this rare exception does not apply to the OP case because the child was not an immediate danger to himself or others. The alleged incident had occurred 6 months prior.

This was, in my opinion, purely retaliatory on the part of the aide who was already being accused of using too much force with the special needs child.

 

[LordKiran]

Ideally teachers who work with special needs children should be able to handle that. In practical terms however, this can be a lot to ask of someone who already requires a college degree on top of a bunch of extra training, on top of shitty pay. I guess worst case scenario, the school nurse should know how to handle this situation. I just think that under extreme circumstances, police should be able to restrain the child until he calms down or until parents are on the scene. Though I completely disagree with how this particular situation played out on principle, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to have police involved if that's what it comes to.

Not six months after the fact, though.

I note your comment that I bolded - yes, maybe in an extreme circumstance of immediate and genuine danger to the child or to other people that the school officials are for some reason not properly trained to handle, I suppose calling the police as a last resort would not be entirely unreasonable. But frankly, that outcome will most likely be very poor because school officials should be trained to even higher standards that police officers on handling children.

That said, this rare exception does not apply to the OP case because the child was not an immediate danger to himself or others. The alleged incident had occurred 6 months prior.

This was, in my opinion, purely retaliatory on the part of the aide who was already being accused of using too much force with the special needs child.

I completely agree in regards to this specific incident. Frankly that aid has no business being anywhere near children, and the fact that they tied him up with zip ties like an animal is pretty reprehensible as well.

 

[RavenSky]

I completely agree in regards to this specific incident. Frankly that aid has no business being anywhere near children, and the fact that they tied him up with zip ties like an animal is pretty reprehensible as well.

We are in full agreement on those two points, too!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Except in the most extreme of circumstances, one shouldn't need the police to handle a 10 year old autistic child in a school, because they are most likely the most ill equipped and poorly trained to handle a 10 year old autistic child.

You would think so, but then when was the last time you've been to school? Keep in mind that this whole incident started at the behest of a teacher's aid wanting some 'justice'. So with that in mind, you really have no reason to think the teachers would treat him much better.

The Police can use pretty strong force and often get away with it.

From where I sit, you have 50/50 odds that the child will be mishandled and injured no matter which option you take, so what difference does it honestly make? At least with police officers there's a better chance that the people restraining said child will be physically fit enough to do so without exerting too much effort or hurting him.

There have been cases of the Police being called in to assist situations at homes where a person who is mentally ill... and then that mentally ill person is shot and killed. That would be quite extreme in a school, but still, the Police are a last resort. You don't call people with guns into a situation unless you must.

 

[LordKiran]

You would think so, but then when was the last time you've been to school? Keep in mind that this whole incident started at the behest of a teacher's aid wanting some 'justice'. So with that in mind, you really have no reason to think the teachers would treat him much better.

The Police can use pretty strong force and often get away with it.

From where I sit, you have 50/50 odds that the child will be mishandled and injured no matter which option you take, so what difference does it honestly make? At least with police officers there's a better chance that the people restraining said child will be physically fit enough to do so without exerting too much effort or hurting him.

There have been cases of the Police being called in to assist situations at homes where a person who is mentally ill... and then that mentally ill person is shot and killed. That would be quite extreme in a school, but still, the Police are a last resort. You don't call people with guns into a situation unless you must.

So? I'm pretty sure if I looked hard enough, I could find some story about a special needs teacher physically abusing a student, but then what would that prove exactly? Don't drink from the "Some speak for all" Well that Derec submerges himself in daily.

 

[Toni]

The thing is, police are not equipped to handle discipline problems of children. Unlike school personnel, they have no job training relating to child development, developmental challenges and delays, behavioral problems in children, autism, or any of the many many issues typically found in a special education setting.

Please note: they were not called to deal with a child who was out of control and violent. They were called at the behest of a cowardly teacher's aide and cowardly school administrator who lack the requisite skills and intelligence, much less compassion, to do their fucking job.

Police have a limited set of tools to use. I'm sure they did their best bit this is outrageous.

 

[ZiprHead]

As for 'pre-schooler'...really? Hyperbole much? You're comparing a toddler to a 10 year old?

This coming from the person who compared the kid to murderers and rapists.

 

[LordKiran]

The thing is, police are not equipped to handle discipline problems of children. Unlike school personnel, they have no job training relating to child development, developmental challenges and delays, behavioral problems in children, autism, or any of the many many issues typically found in a special education setting.

Please note: they were not called to deal with a child who was out of control and violent. They were called at the behest of a cowardly teacher's aide and cowardly school administrator who lack the requisite skills and intelligence, much less compassion, to do their fucking job.

Police have a limited set of tools to use. I'm sure they did their best bit this is outrageous.

The problem with blanket statements like this is that it completely ignores the lack of standardization to our national public schools. I have the benefit of having been to several different public schools all across the country as I was growing up. I also on occasion have been subjected to special needs education. Just as no two teachers that are the same, there are no two schools that are completely alike either. Some schools are well funded and provide excellent resources and staff to manage troubled students. Other schools just do the best they can...My fifth grade teacher is still my favorite as I was always a highly energetic child, and he was the only one who ever really made allowances for this. My junion/senior highschool teachers by comparison (With a few good exceptions) were largely just old, tired, and didn't really care. I ended up stuck in classes with mentally challenged kids who had difficulty remembering the days of the week because after a certain point, they just gave up and had to stick me somewhere. in some schools, they went out of their way to make allowances for mentally and emotionally unstable children, in others they would drag you through a cafeteria building full of students by your arms for no reason other than because you were being obstinate over some minor issue.

The point i'm inefficiently trying to reach here is that some schools and teachers are better than others, same as some cops and departments.