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At least 8 dead in Mass Shooting du Jour

if those rifles were not available, do you think they would have shrugged and given up? Or would they have used another type of rifle or maybe some handguns?
They [AR15s] are not ideal, but they are not "terrible" either.
I do not see any good reason to try to ban them.

Like I said, he’s pro-gun. But too mealy-mouthed to come right out and say it.
“Limits”.
Derec wants “limits”, which are different from bans. Maybe limit shooters to killing no more than 8 people at a time? A limit on lifetime killings? A limit to the number of pistols and rifles you’re allowed to brandish in public?
“Limits” are a placeholder for “hands off mah guns!”

And all this bs from a guy who doesn’t own guns doesn’t know guns, and pretends to some expertise regarding their availability, use, and outcomes.
Such ignorant hubris…
Maybe the “mental health” excuse has some merit after all.
 
Now, some school shooters and the like have used AR15-style rifles to commit their dastardly acts. Mostly because of the cool factor, I think. But if those rifles were not available, do you think they would have shrugged and given up? Or would they have used another type of rifle or maybe some handguns?
It's quite possible the answer to the bolded is yes. Not only is there a cool factor but there is a psychological factor of owning such weapons.

Do you think Rittenhouse would have made his way into the situation he went into if he didn't have the AR but only had knives or handguns. I don't think so.

It's a well known fact that carrying a firearm has a psychological effect upon the carrier. The effect allows the carrier to do things and get into situations they normally would not.
 
It's quite possible the answer to the bolded is yes.
"Possible" is not the same as "likely". We see mass shooters use other weapons. In fact, "assault weapons" are a minority even among mass shootings.
And Columbine happened during the "assault weapons" ban. Didn't deter Harris and Klebold.

Not only is there a cool factor but there is a psychological factor of owning such weapons.
That would be part of psychology.

Do you think Rittenhouse would have made his way into the situation he went into if he didn't have the AR but only had knives or handguns. I don't think so.
Rittenhouse was defending himself from being attacked. He did not initiate any violence, so he is a strange example here.
I do not know if he would have went, but Josef Rosenbaum, Anthony Huber and Gaige Grosskreutz went to the riot and initiated violence even though they were armed with nothing, a skateboard and a handgun respectively.

It's a well known fact that carrying a firearm has a psychological effect upon the carrier. The effect allows the carrier to do things and get into situations they normally would not.
A firearm. Not necessarily a specific kind of firearm. This is all about the idea that if so-called "assault weapons" were banned, school shooters and other mass shooters would use other weapons, rather than give up. Using only handguns did not prevent Seung-Hui Cho from being a very effective mass shooter.
 
I made a choice long ago to not learn to hunt or to use firearms but I see that as a personal choice.
So what do you use? Bow and arrow? That's hardcore!
She said "hunt or to use firearms", not "hunt using firearms".

Or she could be like me: Nikon.

I think concealed carry should also be illegal, along with open carry. All firearms should be registered and gun ownership should require certification of firearm safety courses.
I agree with registration and licensing. I think banning all carry is going too far though.
In the real world CCW permits have a very low rate of misdeeds. I consider them basically a non-issue.
Yeah, despite my upbringing, I decided to neither learn to hunt or to shoot firearms. And despite my education and training and years of experience dressing various fish and game animals, not to mention my time in lab’s dissecting and harvesting and euthanizing animals, and my tremendous appreciation for the sheer wonder and beauty of organ systems, tissues, anatomy and physiology—or perhaps because of it, I just don’t like killing things. Even mice and spiders and other insects that get into the house occasionally. I’m a lapsed vegetarian so I am aware of the conflict inherent in my eating meat and fish.

I do very much appreciate the love of and for some the absolute necessity of hunting and fishing to put food on the table. I strongly dislike mounted trophies. I also appreciate the necessity in some environments of keeping a title to defend against predators and occasionally, as the quickest and most humane way to euthanize an animal who would be unable to recover from its injuries.

I’m not naive and I have no problem with messy, gory wounds. I don’t get sick at the sight of blood and I can deal with all manner of human and animal emissions.

But I know the dangers of being certain of your ability to defend yourself in a crisis. I’m aware of the statistics for suicide and domestic violence and homicude when firearms are kept in the home, and of the numbers of accidental shootings, often of and/or by children. I think that for most Americans, owning firearms is an act of hubris and gross naïveté and is far too risky to be responsible. .
 
It's quite possible the answer to the bolded is yes.
"Possible" is not the same as "likely". We see mass shooters use other weapons. In fact, "assault weapons" are a minority even among mass shootings.
And Columbine happened during the "assault weapons" ban. Didn't deter Harris and Klebold.

Not only is there a cool factor but there is a psychological factor of owning such weapons.
That would be part of psychology.

Do you think Rittenhouse would have made his way into the situation he went into if he didn't have the AR but only had knives or handguns. I don't think so.
Rittenhouse was defending himself from being attacked. He did not initiate any violence, so he is a strange example here.
I do not know if he would have went, but Josef Rosenbaum, Anthony Huber and Gaige Grosskreutz went to the riot and initiated violence even though they were armed with nothing, a skateboard and a handgun respectively.

It's a well known fact that carrying a firearm has a psychological effect upon the carrier. The effect allows the carrier to do things and get into situations they normally would not.
A firearm. Not necessarily a specific kind of firearm. This is all about the idea that if so-called "assault weapons" were banned, school shooters and other mass shooters would use other weapons, rather than give up. Using only handguns did not prevent Seung-Hui Cho from being a very effective mass shooter.
Actually Rittenhouse chased down his victims. He was not in any imminent danger. The only danger he experienced is what he created. I definitely blame his parents for doing such a poor job of raising him that he thought it was all right or even desirable for him to cross state lines to play cowboy and Indians in a protest situation.
 
It's quite possible the answer to the bolded is yes.
"Possible" is not the same as "likely". We see mass shooters use other weapons. In fact, "assault weapons" are a minority even among mass shootings.
And Columbine happened during the "assault weapons" ban. Didn't deter Harris and Klebold.

Not only is there a cool factor but there is a psychological factor of owning such weapons.
That would be part of psychology.

Do you think Rittenhouse would have made his way into the situation he went into if he didn't have the AR but only had knives or handguns. I don't think so.
Rittenhouse was defending himself from being attacked. He did not initiate any violence, so he is a strange example here.
I do not know if he would have went, but Josef Rosenbaum, Anthony Huber and Gaige Grosskreutz went to the riot and initiated violence even though they were armed with nothing, a skateboard and a handgun respectively.

It's a well known fact that carrying a firearm has a psychological effect upon the carrier. The effect allows the carrier to do things and get into situations they normally would not.
A firearm. Not necessarily a specific kind of firearm. This is all about the idea that if so-called "assault weapons" were banned, school shooters and other mass shooters would use other weapons, rather than give up. Using only handguns did not prevent Seung-Hui Cho from being a very effective mass shooter.
Actually Rittenhouse chased down his victims. He was not in any imminent danger. The only danger he experienced is what he created. I definitely blame his parents for doing such a poor job of raising him that he thought it was all right or even desirable for him to cross state lines to play cowboy and Indians in a protest situation.
Come on! You’ve obviously never been attacked by a grocery sack before.
 
Actually Rittenhouse chased down his victims.
No he didn't. You are misremembering the case. It was Rosenbaum, and later Huber and Grosskreutz, who chased Rittenhouse. We had a long thread discussing that case.
He was not in any imminent danger.
Of course he was. First that pedophile Rosenbaum cornered him and attacked him, then Huber smacked him with his skateboard and finally Grosskreutz pulled his gun on him. What part of any of these is not "imminent danger"?
The only danger he experienced is what he created. I definitely blame his parents for doing such a poor job of raising him that he thought it was all right or even desirable for him to cross state lines to play cowboy and Indians in a protest situation.
What is with this "crossed state lines" trope? He did not "cross state lines" specifically to protect businesses from rioters - he was already in Kenosha when riots broke out.
 
Come on! You’ve obviously never been attacked by a grocery sack before.
While Rosenbaum did throw a bag at Ritt, he also cornered him and tried to grab his rifle. Hence, justified shooting due to self defense.

The amount of half-truths, distortions and outright lies still being spread in this case is ridiculous. Anything from the "crossed state lines" trope to reversing victim and offender when it comes to who chased down whom.
 
Actually Rittenhouse chased down his victims.
No he didn't. You are misremembering the case. It was Rosenbaum who chased Rittenhouse. We had a long thread discussing that case.
He was not in any imminent danger.
Of course he was. First that pedophile Rosenbaum cornered him and attacked him, then Huber smacked him with his skateboard and finally Grosskreutz pulled his gun on him. What part of any of these is not "imminent danger"?
The only danger he experienced is what he created. I definitely blame his parents for doing such a poor job of raising him that he thought it was all right or even desirable for him to cross state lines to play cowboy and Indians in a protest situation.
What is with this "crossed state lines" trope? He did not "cross state lines" specifically to protect businesses from rioters - he was already in Kenosha when riots broke out.

So Kyle crossed state lines with a firearm, took the firearm to a protest to ‘ protect businesses’ with which he had zero connection, entered into conflict situations brandishing a loaded firearm—he was not the victim, whether or not his victims were good people.

He went to the protests with a loaded firearm to prove how tuff he is and what a big man he is.
 
Actually Rittenhouse chased down his victims.
No he didn't. You are misremembering the case. It was Rosenbaum, and later Huber and Grosskreutz, who chased Rittenhouse. We had a long thread discussing that case.
He was not in any imminent danger.
Of course he was. First that pedophile Rosenbaum cornered him and attacked him, then Huber smacked him with his skateboard and finally Grosskreutz pulled his gun on him. What part of any of these is not "imminent danger"?
The only danger he experienced is what he created. I definitely blame his parents for doing such a poor job of raising him that he thought it was all right or even desirable for him to cross state lines to play cowboy and Indians in a protest situation.
What is with this "crossed state lines" trope? He did not "cross state lines" specifically to protect businesses from rioters - he was already in Kenosha when riots broke out.
We could save million of dollars if we shipped lethal garbage sacks to Ukraine instead of arms.
 
Come on! You’ve obviously never been attacked by a grocery sack before.
While Rosenbaum did throw a bag at Ritt, he also cornered him and tried to grab his rifle. Hence, justified shooting due to self defense.

The amount of half-truths, distortions and outright lies still being spread in this case is ridiculous. Anything from the "crossed state lines" trope to reversing victim and offender when it comes to who chased down whom.
He tried to disarm someone he rightfully perceived as a threat.
 
He tried to disarm someone he rightfully perceived as a threat.
No, this felon was a threat and Ritt defended himself.
Ritt showed no aggressive behavior until he was attacked. On the other hand, Rosenbaum has been angry and combative even before engaging Ritt.
 
We could save million of dollars if we shipped lethal garbage sacks to Ukraine instead of arms.
So you are saying that anything that is not an effective military weapon cannot be effectively used for assault and battery on streets of US cities?
That Ritt should not have considered himself under attack unless Rosenbaum was shooting artillery at him?
Or what is the point you are trying to make?
 
So Kyle crossed state lines with a firearm,
No, he didn't.
took the firearm to a protest to ‘ protect businesses’ with which he had zero connection,
As have several others. But why are you so hostile toward those who sought to protect businesses and not at all toward those who were burning them down?
entered into conflict situations brandishing a loaded firearm—he was not the victim, whether or not his victims were good people.
Once he was attacked, he became a victim and had the right to defend himself. The "not guilty" verdict was just and the DA should never have prosecuted this case.
He went to the protests with a loaded firearm to prove how tuff he is and what a big man he is.
So did Gaige Grosskreutz. You have no problem with him. Why?
 
So Kyle crossed state lines with a firearm,
No, he didn't.
took the firearm to a protest to ‘ protect businesses’ with which he had zero connection,
As have several others. But why are you so hostile toward those who sought to protect businesses and not at all toward those who were burning them down?
entered into conflict situations brandishing a loaded firearm—he was not the victim, whether or not his victims were good people.
Once he was attacked, he became a victim and had the right to defend himself. The "not guilty" verdict was just and the DA should never have prosecuted this case.
He went to the protests with a loaded firearm to prove how tuff he is and what a big man he is.
So did Gaige Grosskreutz. You have no problem with him. Why?
Was the forearm already in Wisconsin? Did Rittenhouse cross the state lines into Wisconsin?
Never have I ever suggested that it was ok to destroy businesses as part of a protest. The sidebar is whether or not a teenager had any legitimate reason to attend a protest while armed. Regardless of what ‘side’ he was on. Abd to be very very honest: the only side he was on was his own, albeit seeking approval from very fucked up are ts and whatever other right wing nut jobs were egging him on over the internet.

We have police officers and where necessary, national guard to protect citizens and property.

We do not need armed vigilantes especially teenagers.

One does not get to walk into a volatile situation with an openly displayed firearm looking for people to e yet into a conflict with, in order to prove your manhood and then, when they take you for an armed violent person seeking to escalate the situation, cry victim. Which is exactly what happened here.
 
So Kyle crossed state lines with a firearm,
No, he didn't.
took the firearm to a protest to ‘ protect businesses’ with which he had zero connection,
As have several others. But why are you so hostile toward those who sought to protect businesses and not at all toward those who were burning them down?
entered into conflict situations brandishing a loaded firearm—he was not the victim, whether or not his victims were good people.
Once he was attacked, he became a victim and had the right to defend himself. The "not guilty" verdict was just and the DA should never have prosecuted this case.
He went to the protests with a loaded firearm to prove how tuff he is and what a big man he is.
So did Gaige Grosskreutz. You have no problem with him. Why?
You mean the guy who was shot by Rittenhouse while acting as a medic? Yes, Grosskreutz was armed but he was carrying a legally possessed licensed firearm, unlike Rittenhouse who was startled by a plastic bag and ran away after shooting people. Rittenhouse was way way way above his skill level or his maturity level, provoked a response by those who quite rightly saw him as a danger and acted to try to disarm him.

It is worth noting that the only people killed were those killed by Rittenhouse, who should have stayed home in his mommy’s basement.
 
Rittenhouse’s sister’s 18 year old boyfriend purchased the firearm so that he and Rittenhouse could go hunting and practice shooting targets on property the boyfriend’s family owned in Northern Wisconsin.

He faced felony charges for illegally providing the minor in Rittenhouse with a firearm but pled guilty to contributing to the delinquency of a minor to avoid prison time.

People in Illinois frequently travel to neighboring Wisconsin to hunt, fish, boat, etc. The phenomenon is so well established that it has its own acronym: FISH: Fucking Illinois Shit Heads. And it’s correlate: FISH TAB: Fucking Illinois Shit Head Towing A Boat. *

*As related to me by a family member who lived in Illinois for several years.
 
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