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BB Theory - Popular Myth Or Scientific Fact

A good speculation IMO. If causality holds during all phases of the model along with a finite propagation of a curability then you may be right.
Yesterday you though that it was contradictory to say that the "dense hot soup" of the early universe was both small and everywhere.

You don't even understand the basic concepts of the big bang, yet here you are, giving us your assessment of its merits! Fucking LOL.
 
I still don't see how this topic is even vaguely metaphysical.
It is, perversely enough, metaphysics to discuss that which happens about, around, and "above" physics. It's discussing the systems which give rise to physics as we observe it.

It's been my own contention that universal origins are more like an uncollapsed probability wave than anything else: all the states in the probabilistic field exist in superposition until a differentiating event occurs, which we have no evidence of ever having happened.
 
A good speculation IMO. If causality holds during all phases of the model along with a finite propagation of a curability then you may be right.
Yesterday you though that it was contradictory to say that the "dense hot soup" of the early universe was both small and everywhere.

You don't even understand the basic concepts of the big bang, yet here you are, giving us your assessment of its merits! Fucking LOL.
Th't's philosophy and metaphysics for you

I dd not say it was a contradiction. Two people with credentials in cosmology see it in different ways. As far as I can see it is not settled.

So, why beleive the BB event and the intial conditions as abolutey true? Do you believe it is absolutely true?
 
I can't stress enough that "small" merely means "any particle of reference that may be supplied hasn't interacted with stuff very far away, yet, because C."

Dense because "all the stuff that we see in the universe was in fact within that sphere of C*1planck-second" when using any particle on earth as the reference.
 
Everybody who thinks the BB and the initial conditions are irrefutable truth please raise your hands and go on record
Has anyone here claimed that to be the case? Who are you talking to? Sancho panza?

Why do you continue to ignore and often misrepresent what people have been telling you?

I doubt many working theoretical physicists would say any theory is abslute not subject topotential revision or refutation
Duh! Did you just figure that out? There have been significant revisions to our models of the universe since the 19th century. Apparently, those were not covered in the introductory physics class you took in college, and you clearly can't be bothered to learn on your own. Stuff like general relativity, the expansion of the universe, the discovery of dark matter and dark energy, just to name a few.

You have to stop pumping all that helium into your ego, man. For one, it makes your voice all squeaky, which is fine if you're a mouse in a cartoon on tv, but not so much if you're a human trying to have a real conversation. Conversations only work when it's two-way, otherwise you're just talking to yourself.
I'm not going back through the posts and who said what. Arguments the BB is true and validated. The analogy to geophysics and concluding ice ages. The argument from authoruty, scientists say it is true.

So I take it you do not take it as absolute truth? Yes or no. It is a philosophical question.

We all take theists to task on creationism which can not be demonstrated. The BB can not be demonstrated.
 
I still don't see how this topic is even vaguely metaphysical.
To me science is metaphysical abstractions reverenced to physical reference points. Meters, kissograms, seconds.

Science like all thing human is human thought forms.
 
The BB can not be demonstrated.
Yes, it can. And it has been, in several ways. We observe that the universe is expanding. That is the Big Bang. Not the consequences, or results, or aftermath of; That expansion IS the Big Bang.

We can also directly observe its early stages, which was the (successful) goal of the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy probe.

Again, your objection appears to come directly from idiotic creationist claptrap, and is of the same quality as the classic "why are there still monkeys" argument against the validity of the Theory of Evolution.
 
Metaphysical woo woo is not science.
Scince can be woo, we call it pseudo science.

It all depnds on what is being said.

Creationism arguments can be logically valid in that there are no logical fallacies. Creationists and scientists use the same logical forms. That does not invalidate logic, it depends on how you use it.
 
The BB can not be demonstrated.
Yes, it can. And it has been, in several ways. We observe that the universe is expanding. That is the Big Bang. Not the consequences, or results, or aftermath of; That expansion IS the Big Bang.

We can also directly observe its early stages, which was the (successful) goal of the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy probe.

Again, your objection appears to come directly from idiotic creationist claptrap, and is of the same quality as the classic "why are there still monkeys" argument against the validity of the Theory of Evolution.
It appears that when he says “Big Bang” and “Big Bang event” he is referring to something specific happening at the t=0 singularity and not to what scientists refer to, which is the evolution of the universe from a hot dense state through an expansion and cooling that has led to large scale structure formation and other predictions that are verifiable and falsifiable through observation.

Although this has been pointed out multiple times in the thread he insists on creating a false dichotomy between the “Big Bang” being either a myth or an irrefutable fact, with no other option.

He also seems to be claiming, and he can correct me if I am misinterpreting him, that something cannot be studied scientifically unless it can be recreated in a lab and experimented upon. Therefore the conditions of the early universe will remain in the realm of philosophy.
 
It appears that when he says “Big Bang” and “Big Bang event” he is referring to something specific happening at the t=0 singularity and not to what scientists refer to
Indeed; I can't help drawing the analogy with creationists who declare the ToE to be nonsensical, on the basis that they disagree with what it says about abiogenesis - apparently completely unaware that ToE says nothing at all about abiogenesis.
 
Metaphysical woo woo is not science.
Scince can be woo, we call it pseudo science.

It all depnds on what is being said.

Creationism arguments can be logically valid in that there are no logical fallacies. Creationists and scientists use the same logical forms. That does not invalidate logic, it depends on how you use it.
Disclaimer: Learner I am in no way saying creationist arguments have the same validity as agruments based in physical science, the thred is not a disproof of the BB or an equating of the BB and creationism.
 
Hmmm. No one is now saying the BB theory is true and validated? I thouroghly it ws said the BB is true becuase the mdel appears to match reality today, for example predicting the CMBR.

It is a yes no question without hand waving or equivocation or arguing semantics.

I am getting a better appreciation of philosophy.

Epistemology.

the theory of knowledge, especially with regard to its methods, validity, and scope. Epistemology is the investigation of what distinguishes justified belief from opinion.


pistemology (/ɪˌpɪstəˈmɒlədʒi/ (listen); from Ancient Greek ἐπιστήμη (epistḗmē) 'knowledge', and -logy), or the theory of knowledge, is the branch of philosophy concerned with knowledge. Epistemology is considered a major subfield of philosophy, along with other major subfields such as ethics, logic, and metaphysics.[1]

Epistemologists study the nature, origin, and scope of knowledge, epistemic justification, the rationality of belief, and various related issues. Debates in epistemology are generally clustered around four core areas:[2][3][4]


  1. The philosophical analysis of the nature of knowledge and the conditions required for a belief to constitute knowledge, such as truth and justification
  2. Potential sources of knowledge and justified belief, such as perception, reason, memory, and testimony
  3. The structure of a body of knowledge or justified belief, including whether all justified beliefs must be derived from justified foundational beliefs or whether justification requires only a coherent set of beliefs
  4. Philosophical skepticism, which questions the possibility of knowledge, and related problems, such as whether skepticism poses a threat to our ordinary knowledge claims and whether it is possible to refute skeptical arguments

In these debates and others, epistemology aims to answer questions such as "What do we know?", "What does it mean to say that we know something?", "What makes justified beliefs justified?", and "How do we know that we know?".[1][2][5][6][7]

Metaphysics

  1. the branch of philosophy that deals with the first principles of things, including abstract concepts such as being, knowing, substance, cause, identity, time, and space.
    "they would regard the question of the initial conditions for the universe as belonging to the realm of metaphysics or religion"
    • abstract theory with no basis in reality.
      "the very subject of milk pricing involves one in a wonderland of accounting practice and a metaphysics all its own"
 
It is a yes no question without hand waving or equivocation or arguing semantics.
I think several people have made it very clear that they think the Big Bang theory is true.

However, the Big Bang theory is not:
  • "Scientific fact".
  • "Absolutely without a doubt true" or "absolute truth". No scientific theory should ever be said to be "absolute" truth.
  • "Gospel truth". No-one talks like that besides religionists.
 
Metaphysical woo woo is not science.
Scince can be woo, we call it pseudo science.

It all depnds on what is being said.

Creationism arguments can be logically valid in that there are no logical fallacies. Creationists and scientists use the same logical forms. That does not invalidate logic, it depends on how you use it.
Disclaimer: Learner I am in no way saying creationist arguments have the same validity as agruments based in physical science, the thred is not a disproof of the BB or an equating of the BB and creationism.
Your arguments against the Big Bang theory are very similar to some creationist arguments against Evolution,

"The Big Bang is just a theory, it isn't fact."
"Evolution is just a theory, it isn't fact."

"The Big Bang can't be reproduced in an experiment."
"Evolution can't be reproduced in an experiment."

It's also similar to some climate change denier arguments:

"The Big Bang is just a mathematical model."
"Climate models are just computer models."
(Usually accompanied by a misunderstood quote from John Von Neumann)
 
I dd not say it was a contradiction. Two people with credentials in cosmology see it in different ways. As far as I can see it is not settled.
If one person says that universe was "small" and the other says it was "not localised" - they are both describing different properties of the same thing.

"One person described the chair as having four metal legs, and the other described it as having a plastic seat. The chair theory is not settled."
 
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