• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

BB Theory - Popular Myth Or Scientific Fact

A spectroscopy lab was part of my optics class.

Look at the light from a gas discharge tube through a prism o usng a using distraction grating.

We know from expedient on Earth what the sectrum of materls are.

Its been a while. Balmer comes to mind.

Using emission spectrocopy to assess the composition of stars is based in experiment. Objective conclusions.

Also absorption spectroscopy to assess the composition of gasses in space.
What's your point here? Which post are you responding to? If we're just stating our experiences then I'll say that I have spent about 25 years professionally doing spectroscopy of gasses, ranging from Earth and other solar system objects to the interstellar medium. I've performed analysis for scientific publication as well as designed, built, and calibrated instrumentation to measure such spectra.

I do like your typo "distraction grating", though.
 
As the theorized event is not demonstrable I consider the BB a good theory but not truth.
Wut? A theory IS science’s best approximation of truth.
I think you mean to demote the Big Bang to hypothesis status. Without rigorous means of falsifying it, it remains the most predictive and explanatory “origin” hypothesis we have.
 
It ain't real until you dun built one in the lab using science.
But I did make a big bang in a lab using science.

When I told Steve he accused me of making shit up about playing video games.

To be fair, most people say as much.
 
It would take a long time at the particle level, a simulation could be run based on the theory. The results of the simulation might exactly match what we see today. That still would not prove the BB happened. It would say that gven the theortical initial conditions the model predicts reality today. It is a good theory.
This is not a criticism of the Big Bang theory but rather a denial of all science that investigates events that happened in the past. The Cambrian explosion, ice ages, dinosaurs, the Hadean eon. All good theories. Didn't really happen, though.
 
It would take a long time at the particle level, a simulation could be run based on the theory. The results of the simulation might exactly match what we see today. That still would not prove the BB happened. It would say that gven the theortical initial conditions the model predicts reality today. It is a good theory.
This is not a criticism of the Big Bang theory but rather a denial of all science that investigates events that happened in the past. The Cambrian explosion, ice ages, dinosaurs, the Hadean eon. All good theories. Didn't really happen, though.
How do you know? Were you not there??
 
On pop science shows and science news segments the BB Theory is stated as true without any quantification.

Okay.



Do yiu believe the BB Theory is true, and why.

Sure. What's not to believe?



As the theorized event is not demonstrable I consider the BB a good theory but not truth.

Galactic clusters are flying away from each other as if the universe began--or this phase of the universe began--with a big bang.
I don't see anything there to disagree with.

Do you think evolution and gravity are good theories but not truth?

There are details of evolutionary theory that need to be nailed down. For instance, I have read that cladistics is contentious. But I don't see the as-yet-unanswered questions as calling the whole theory of evolution into question. Evolution is established; it is real.

It's the same with gravity. Scientists describe gravity as a wave or as a particle or as nonexistent because space curves. They keep trying to figure out details. But none of the open questions about gravity undermine the theory as a whole. Gravity is established; it is real.

It's the same with the big bang theory, isn't it? The universe really is flying apart as if it is a big explosion. There are questions about what happened before that. There are questions about How the heck did that happen if nothing happened before that? But none of those questions undermine the known fact that we are flying apart like a big explosion. The big bang is established; it is real.

Which leaves me wondering what your real question is. Others have asked, and you haven't been forthcoming.

I add my voice to theirs:

Are you doubting big bang theory altogether, or just part of it? If just part of it, what part? If the whole thing, why?
 
In this thread, steve continues to argue with actual, published individuals who work in the field as well as people who understand the science way better than he does.

Next, we should find out his opinion about airplanes on conveyor belts.....
 
@Worldtraveller and @ Dall-E 2, if you're out there reading this, I'll also clarify, I actually really like Dall-E 2.
 
It would take a long time at the particle level, a simulation could be run based on the theory. The results of the simulation might exactly match what we see today. That still would not prove the BB happened. It would say that gven the theortical initial conditions the model predicts reality today. It is a good theory.
This is not a criticism of the Big Bang theory but rather a denial of all science that investigates events that happened in the past. The Cambrian explosion, ice ages, dinosaurs, the Hadean eon. All good theories. Didn't really happen, though.
False equivalence.
 
In this thread, steve continues to argue with actual, published individuals who work in the field as well as people who understand the science way better than he does.

Next, we should find out his opinion about airplanes on conveyor belts.....
Srgumnt from authority. They no more, are scientists, thetefore the BB event is true.

The initial conditions are theoretical.


A syllogism is valid as long as conclusion follows from premises with no logical falcies. Given the hypotetcal initial conditions are true, then the BB theory follows.

The inertial conditoins can never be validated.

I accept Ohm's Law and Newtn's Laws as true within limits. They can be experimentally demonstrated. I accept time dilation it can be experimentally demonsted.

I accept QM which can be demonstrated in practical application. I do not accept speculations based on QM however sophisticated simply because somene with academic credentials published it.

To do so would be like a theist quoting scripture.
 
Ludwig Boltzmann seemed to regard the entire universe, with or without a Bang, as unlikely. Does this help explain his deteriorating mental condition? Or vice versa?
In 1906, Boltzmann's deteriorating mental condition forced him to resign his position, and his symptoms indicate he experienced what would today be diagnosed as bipolar disorder. Four months later he died by suicide on 5 September 1906, by hanging himself while on vacation with his wife and daughter ... His tombstone bears the inscription of Boltzmann's entropy formula: S = k ⋅ log ⁡ W

I'm not sure who first developed the concept of  Boltzmann brain. It may not have been the great Ludwig Boltzmann himself, but instead developed as a parody of his work.
The consensus amongst cosmologists is that some yet to be revealed error is hinted at by the surprising calculation that Boltzmann brains should vastly outnumber normal human brains. Sean Carroll states "We're not arguing that Boltzmann Brains exist—we're trying to avoid them." Carroll has stated that the hypothesis of being a Boltzmann brain results in "cognitive instability". Because, he argues, it would take longer than the current age of the universe for a brain to form, and yet it thinks that it observes that it exists in a younger universe, this shows that memories and reasoning processes would be untrustworthy if it were indeed a Boltzmann brain. Seth Lloyd has stated "They fail the Monty Python test: Stop that! That's too silly!" A New Scientist journalist summarizes that "The starting point for our understanding of the universe and its behavior is that humans, not disembodied brains, are typical observers."

Some argue that brains produced via quantum fluctuation, and maybe even brains produced via nucleation in the de Sitter vacuum, do not count as observers. Quantum fluctuations are easier to exclude than nucleated brains, as quantum fluctuations can more easily be targeted by straightforward criteria (such as their lack of interaction with the environment at infinity).

Some cosmologists believe that a better understanding of the degrees of freedom in the quantum vacuum of holographic string theory can solve the Boltzmann brain problem.

Brian Greene states: "I am confident that I am not a Boltzmann brain. However, we want our theories to similarly concur that we are not Boltzmann brains, but so far it has proved surprisingly difficult for them to do so."

I've been retired for some time, but try to keep my own (possibly Boltzmann) brain active so I've been doing sociological research on Floating Fortune Road. Among other interesting denizens, I have discovered the original Boltzmann Brain herself; she's working in a cannabis dispensary in an alleyway just a few meters off F.F. Road. The music of Mozart, Bach and Elvis Presley are just figments of her imagination, along with the rise and fall of the Roman Empire, the very existence of Homo sapiens, the Cambrian Revolution, the Big Bang, my own life story and those of many or most of you — all figments of her imagination.

This leaves me with an awesome responsibility. If I could somehow pound sense into her (or fill her brain with different psychoactives), the figment known as Donald Trump would cease to have any reality, along with the figments of Hitler, Atilla the Hun, Al Capone, and Kanye West. But should I? We'd also lose millions of species of beautiful flowers and butterflies, Baudelaire's poetry, and the Holy Book of Mormon. There would never be another rainbow.

Faced with this dilemma I turn to the Infidels in this thread for advice and support.
 
Of course if some how a Boltzman brain formed in some bubble Universe of this grand Multiverse we inhabit, that does not mean it is a good or useful Boltzman brain. It might be no more complex than a primitive planarian brain, useless as not being guided by countless generations of evolutionary trial and error to successfully fill an ecological niche.

Perhaps such a brain comes about in some vacuum of space and immediately dies from cold and lack of oxygen.
 
Of course if some how a Boltzman brain formed in some bubble Universe of this grand Multiverse we inhabit, that does not mean it is a good or useful Boltzman brain. It might be no more complex than a primitive planarian brain, useless as not being guided by countless generations of evolutionary trial and error to successfully fill an ecological niche.

Perhaps such a brain comes about in some vacuum of space and immediately dies from cold and lack of oxygen.
In some ways, such brains form all the time when we take a randomized array of neurons and run them as a network.
 
It would take a long time at the particle level, a simulation could be run based on the theory. The results of the simulation might exactly match what we see today. That still would not prove the BB happened. It would say that gven the theortical initial conditions the model predicts reality today. It is a good theory.
This is not a criticism of the Big Bang theory but rather a denial of all science that investigates events that happened in the past. The Cambrian explosion, ice ages, dinosaurs, the Hadean eon. All good theories. Didn't really happen, though.
False equivalence.
What is it that makes the big bang theory dubious but not other theories about natural history?
 
In this thread, steve continues to argue with actual, published individuals who work in the field as well as people who understand the science way better than he does.

Next, we should find out his opinion about airplanes on conveyor belts.....
Srgumnt from authority. They no more, are scientists, thetefore the BB event is true.

The initial conditions are theoretical.


A syllogism is valid as long as conclusion follows from premises with no logical falcies. Given the hypotetcal initial conditions are true, then the BB theory follows.

The inertial conditoins can never be validated.

I accept Ohm's Law and Newtn's Laws as true within limits. They can be experimentally demonstrated. I accept time dilation it can be experimentally demonsted.

I accept QM which can be demonstrated in practical application. I do not accept speculations based on QM however sophisticated simply because somene with academic credentials published it.

To do so would be like a theist quoting scripture.
Are you complaining about big bang in general, or big bang before planck?
 
Back
Top Bottom