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Biden losing in swing states

I don't see any truly multi-party systems.
Any system with more than two viable parties forms coalalitions, in effect it reduces to two parties.
What would a "truly multi-party system" be in your opinion?

I think systems like in Germany are truly multi-party. It is a parliamentary system, so yes, you have to form a coalition government. But that does not reduce things to two parties, even if traditionally there were two major parties (things are more murky now, esp. on the state level). You can have a meaningful vote for a party that represents positions not represented by the two major parties. And different coalitions can be formed. In 1982, the Helmut Schmidt (SPD - social democrats) government came to an end when F.D.P. (classical liberals) decided to support Helmut Kohl (CDU - conservatives) instead. And now, SPD, FDP and Greens are in a coalition together.

In the US, if we kept the presidential system, you would not even need a coalition as such. Smaller parties could back or oppose legislation on a case-by-case basis. Libertarians could support a civil liberties law and next day oppose a spending bill without endangering a formal coalition.
That would have the advantage that no single party (or formal coalition) could push legislation by itself, but also no single party could block legislation either.
 
To stay on topic, let me quickly point out that with the implementation of the proposed amendments (detailed below), concerns about candidates like Biden (or Trump) losing swing states would become a thing of the past. The barbaric lesser evil vote system would be abolished.


Amendment XXVIII: A More Representative Congress


Article I: Concerning Ranked-Choice Voting in the Election of Senators and Representatives

Section 1. The mode of election for the Senate and the House of Representatives shall hereafter be by the means of ranked-choice voting, wherein each elector shall be entitled to rank the candidates in the order of their preference.

Article II: On Proportional Representation within the House of Representatives

Section 1. The apportionment of seats within the House of Representatives shall be conducted on a proportional basis, reflecting the proportionate share of the vote secured by each party or independent candidate throughout the Union.

Article III: Establishing Independent Commissions for the Purpose of Districting

Section 1. Each state within the Union shall constitute an impartial and nonpartisan commission, tasked with the drawing of district boundaries for congressional elections.

Article IV: Regarding the Public Financing of Congressional Campaigns

Section 1. The Congress shall enact measures to establish a system of public financing for the election of Senators and Representatives, with the aim of diminishing the influence of private capital in the political sphere.

Article V: In Support of Multi-Party Involvement in the Political Process

Section 1. The Congress shall pass legislation to foster and encourage the involvement of a multitude of political parties in the democratic process, including but not limited to providing for ballot access and the dispensation of matching funds to lesser-known parties.

Article VI: On the Ratification of This Amendment

Section 1. This Amendment shall be subject to repeal only through the ratification of a subsequent Amendment, which must obtain the assent of two-thirds of both Houses of Congress and the concurrence of three-fourths of the several States.


Article XXIX: On the Reformation of the Electoral Process for the Office of the President

Section 1. The Chief Magistrate of the United States shall henceforth be elected by the mechanism of ranked-choice voting, whereby each elector shall rank the aspirants to the office in order of their preference.

Section 2. The Electoral College shall be superseded by the establishment of a National Popular Vote Compact, in which the entirety of a state's electoral votes shall be conferred upon the candidate who secures the majority of the popular vote across the nation.

Section 3. In those states not acceding to the National Popular Vote Compact, the principle of winner-take-all shall be nullified. Therein, the allocation of electoral votes shall be in proportion to the share of the vote each candidate obtains within the state.

Section 4. The Congress shall enact measures to institute a system of public financing for the election of the President, with the aim of diminishing the sway of private funds in the political process and ensuring equitable opportunity for all candidates.

Section 5. There shall be formed an impartial and nonpartisan commission, whose charge shall be the organization and governance of debates amongst presidential candidates, to maintain equity and impartiality in these forums.

Section 6. The provisions of this Amendment shall be subject to nullification only by the ratification of a subsequent Amendment, which must obtain the approbation of two-thirds of both the Senate and the House of Representatives, and the concurrence of three-fourths of the several States.
 
You're right, the two-party system has been around for a long time, and changing it won't be easy.

But, if he has some realistic ideas as to how it could be done, I'm interested.

That depends on what you mean by realistic.

The path to changing our political system would indeed be complex, but it's far from impossible. We need conviction, long-term dedication, public pressure, and political bravery. Consider the abolitionists who overcame deeply rooted and widespread challenges, many times at the risk of their own lives, (which could rightfully have been characterized for an unrealistic idea) , surely we have the strength to challenge the dominance of the RNC and DNC. This requires us to vote based on genuine conviction rather than fear. If this leads to Congress selecting our presidents, so be it. We'll rethink our voting criteria for members of Congress as well. We need members that are willing to make amendments to the constitution in order to give the people the proper representation mandated by the said US constitution. A system that works for the people and agreed upon by the people.

Taking all of this into account, any significant change, much like the rise of the two-party system and the emergence and abolition of slavery in America, needs to occur organically. Without natural progression, such transformations are unlikely to occur. In other words, enough of us must want it for it to happen. The current political climate suggests a growing desire to solidify the two-party system, potentially leading to the implementation of new rules and even a constitutional amendment to enshrine its dominance at some point.

We're fucked IMO. Maybe we're moving in the right direction and I just can't see it? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Those are very thoughtful ideas, but they are also very idealistic, imo. I have a friend who's dad loves the old soul song, "A Change is gonna Come", which was a big hit in 1964, during the civil rights movement. I remember it well as I was 15 when the song was released and I love soul music. I asked my friend, how much longer it would take for that change to come, as it seems we are going backwards instead of forward in recent years. This country couldn't even get the ERA passed in my lifetime, something that women worked energetically to see become a reality. I guess I don't see us moving in a positive direction, but I hope that people like you will inspire positive change over time. but my idealism died a long time ago. All I can do is be sure to vote in every single election. My vote is really the only bit of power, I have and as you know, there are many powerful people who would like to make it harder for people to vote.

To be honest, I agree with Loren, for the most part. We don't really have any good options outside of our two party system. The two party system is deeply imbedded in our culture. Plus, it would take an amendment to the constitution to remove the power from Congress of deciding an election if nobody received enough votes from the electoral college. The thought of people like Jim Jordan, MTG, Mike Johnson, etc. deciding an election is rather frightening.

If activist women couldn't even get enough states to support the ERA, I don't see how it would be possible to pass any amendment in this day and age. Unfortunately, one party has become very extreme and we have too many people who have been persuaded to vote of an autocrat. I don't fully understand how this has happened, but I think the wide spread misinformation, especially coming from the far right, has been a big cause of what we are facing now. I've known some very decent, even educated people who were sucked up into the Trump cult. He's really good at manipulating people, especially evangelicals and Fox viewers.
 
You're right, the two-party system has been around for a long time, and changing it won't be easy.

But, if he has some realistic ideas as to how it could be done, I'm interested.

That depends on what you mean by realistic.

The path to changing our political system would indeed be complex, but it's far from impossible. We need conviction, long-term dedication, public pressure, and political bravery. Consider the abolitionists who overcame deeply rooted and widespread challenges, many times at the risk of their own lives, (which could rightfully have been characterized for an unrealistic idea) , surely we have the strength to challenge the dominance of the RNC and DNC. This requires us to vote based on genuine conviction rather than fear. If this leads to Congress selecting our presidents, so be it. We'll rethink our voting criteria for members of Congress as well. We need members that are willing to make amendments to the constitution in order to give the people the proper representation mandated by the said US constitution. A system that works for the people and agreed upon by the people.

Taking all of this into account, any significant change, much like the rise of the two-party system and the emergence and abolition of slavery in America, needs to occur organically. Without natural progression, such transformations are unlikely to occur. In other words, enough of us must want it for it to happen. The current political climate suggests a growing desire to solidify the two-party system, potentially leading to the implementation of new rules and even a constitutional amendment to enshrine its dominance at some point.

We're fucked IMO. Maybe we're moving in the right direction and I just can't see it? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Those are very thoughtful ideas, but they are also very idealistic, imo. I have a friend who's dad loves the old soul song, "A Change is gonna Come", which was a big hit in 1964, during the civil rights movement. I remember it well as I was 15 when the song was released and I love soul music. I asked my friend, how much longer it would take for that change to come, as it seems we are going backwards instead of forward in recent years. This country couldn't even get the ERA passed in my lifetime, something that women worked energetically to see become a reality. I guess I don't see us moving in a positive direction, but I hope that people like you will inspire positive change over time. but my idealism died a long time ago. All I can do is be sure to vote in every single election. My vote is really the only bit of power, I have and as you know, there are many powerful people who would like to make it harder for people to vote.

To be honest, I agree with Loren, for the most part. We don't really have any good options outside of our two party system. The two party system is deeply imbedded in our culture. Plus, it would take an amendment to the constitution to remove the power from Congress of deciding an election if nobody received enough votes from the electoral college. The thought of people like Jim Jordan, MTG, Mike Johnson, etc. deciding an election is rather frightening.

If activist women couldn't even get enough states to support the ERA, I don't see how it would be possible to pass any amendment in this day and age. Unfortunately, one party has become very extreme and we have too many people who have been persuaded to vote of an autocrat. I don't fully understand how this has happened, but I think the wide spread misinformation, especially coming from the far right, has been a big cause of what we are facing now. I've known some very decent, even educated people who were sucked up into the Trump cult. He's really good at manipulating people, especially evangelicals and Fox viewers.
Agree with your post. I think that I could have been persuaded before the 2000 that a multi-party system would be favorable. After Trump - no friggin way! A multi-party system gives too much power to crazies who would overturn the system. A viable third party in 24 would hand the election to Trump.
 
I don't see any truly multi-party systems.
Any system with more than two viable parties forms coalalitions, in effect it reduces to two parties.
What would a "truly multi-party system" be in your opinion?

I think systems like in Germany are truly multi-party. It is a parliamentary system, so yes, you have to form a coalition government. But that does not reduce things to two parties, even if traditionally there were two major parties (things are more murky now, esp. on the state level). You can have a meaningful vote for a party that represents positions not represented by the two major parties. And different coalitions can be formed. In 1982, the Helmut Schmidt (SPD - social democrats) government came to an end when F.D.P. (classical liberals) decided to support Helmut Kohl (CDU - conservatives) instead. And now, SPD, FDP and Greens are in a coalition together.

In the US, if we kept the presidential system, you would not even need a coalition as such. Smaller parties could back or oppose legislation on a case-by-case basis. Libertarians could support a civil liberties law and next day oppose a spending bill without endangering a formal coalition.
That would have the advantage that no single party (or formal coalition) could push legislation by itself, but also no single party could block legislation either.
A parliamentary system makes for more dynamic parties but it's still essentially two-party. The only way to truly have more would be some sort of bidding system but I see no way to keep that from being abusable. Bidding systems work well when you have a fixed pool of objectives. (For example, divvying up indivisible objects in an estate. Give each party bidding currency equal to their share of the items and auction them off.)
 
To stay on topic, let me quickly point out that with the implementation of the proposed amendments (detailed below), concerns about candidates like Biden (or Trump) losing swing states would become a thing of the past. The barbaric lesser evil vote system would be abolished.

I don't see that it would eliminate the lesser evil--there might only be evil running.

However, it does make third party voting far better as you can vote your true preference without worrying that it takes away from your second choice.
 
Politicians have very successfully hoodwinked most people into the mistaken belief that democratic systems are for voters to vote FOR somebody.

But they're not. The more effectively a voting system represents actual voter's opinions, the clearer it is, but even the really crude two party First-Past-The-Post system retains the central and most important feature of democracy - it's purpose and raison d'être:

Voting is for getting rid of people we don't want as leaders.

It's not a popularity contest in which people vote for their favourite candidate; It's an unpopularity contest in which people vote against their least favourite candidate(s).

This may seem like a minor quibble, but it's really not. Democracy's advantage over dictatorship (or monarchy, which is just hereditary dictatorship) is that the voters can get rid of an unpopular leader.

That's why run-off voting systems are superior - not because the best candidate wins, or because the "lesser of evils" wins, or really because of any characteristics of the winning candidate; But because they ensure that the worst (or at least, least popular) candidate(s) lose.

Nobody has ever voted for the lesser evil; They always voted against the greater evil. And that's a noble thing to do regardless of how evil the lesser evil might be.

The idea that people vote for a candidate is great for candidate's egos, but is a mistaken and potentially harmful idea that really needs to die.
 
Biden still very much behind in Georgia and Michigan - two states he must win.

Bad perceptions about the economy are the root of his problems.

And the underlying reason for that?
Code:
Audience Share:   All    Age 25-54
Fox               49%       45%
CNN               21%       31%
MSNBC             30%       24%


What are the top 5 cable news shows?

  • Fox News | 5 p.m. / The Five: 316,000 / 18 telecasts.
  • Fox News | 9 p.m. / Hannity: 300,000 / 27 telecasts.
  • Fox News | 10 p.m. / Gutfeld!: 292,000 / 15 telecasts.
  • Fox News | 8 p.m. / Jesse Watters Primetime: 270,000 / 24 telecasts.
  • Fox News | 7 p.m. / The Ingraham Angle: 244,000 / 24 telecasts.
 
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Biden still very much behind in Georgia and Michigan - two states he must win.

Bad perceptions about the economy are the root of his problems.

And the underlying reason for that?
Code:
Audience Share:   All    Age 25-54
Fox               49%       45%
CNN               21%       31%
MSNBC             30%       24%


What are the top 5 cable news shows?

  • Fox News | 5 p.m. / The Five: 316,000 / 18 telecasts.
  • Fox News | 9 p.m. / Hannity: 300,000 / 27 telecasts.
  • Fox News | 10 p.m. / Gutfeld!: 292,000 / 15 telecasts.
  • Fox News | 8 p.m. / Jesse Watters Primetime: 270,000 / 24 telecasts.
  • Fox News | 7 p.m. / The Ingraham Angle: 244,000 / 24 telecasts.


Keep in mind, however that “cable news” is not the only news. And broadcast news has a higher audience by far.
 
Biden still very much behind in Georgia and Michigan - two states he must win.


Bad perceptions about the economy are the root of his problems.
I'm not losing sleep over a poll that says Biden trails Trump in Michigan by 10 pts and Georgia by 5 pts.

Show me a poll where it is 15 pts Georgia and 10 pts Michigan, then I'll start getting nervous.
We're still 11 months out from the election. A lot can happen between now and then. A lot will happen, in fact. If Trump goes to trial as scheduled, I don't think it will hurt him with his MAGA base, but if he's convicted it might turn off some of those more moderate "I hate him but he's a Republican" voters. If the economy keeps going like it has been this year, the public might just realize "hey, this has been pretty good after all." And after all, people tend to vote with their pocketbooks. Or their Google Pay/Venmo/Zelle on their phone. The problem is (as always) Biden and the Democratic Party are simply not effectively communicating on the economy.

Of course, either or both men could have some major health event, though I'd bet it would happen to Trump sooner than Biden. The diet of fast food and Adderall just has to catch up with him at some point.
 
Biden still very much behind in Georgia and Michigan - two states he must win.


Bad perceptions about the economy are the root of his problems.
I'm not losing sleep over a poll that says Biden trails Trump in Michigan by 10 pts and Georgia by 5 pts.

Show me a poll where it is 15 pts Georgia and 10 pts Michigan, then I'll start getting nervous.
We're still 11 months out from the election. A lot can happen between now and then. A lot will happen, in fact. If Trump goes to trial as scheduled, I don't think it will hurt him with his MAGA base, but if he's convicted it might turn off some of those more moderate "I hate him but he's a Republican" voters. If the economy keeps going like it has been this year, the public might just realize "hey, this has been pretty good after all." And after all, people tend to vote with their pocketbooks. Or their Google Pay/Venmo/Zelle on their phone. The problem is (as always) Biden and the Democratic Party are simply not effectively communicating on the economy.

Of course, either or both men could have some major health event, though I'd bet it would happen to Trump sooner than Biden. The diet of fast food and Adderall just has to catch up with him at some point.
I don’t wish him dead, but a small stroke that limited his ability to speak would be nice. He would open his mouth and gibberish would come out. Of course that’s not much different than now. Maybe a big stroke that kills him is a good idea after all.

But then again, his supporters will claim he was murdered.
 
I don’t wish him dead, but a small stroke that limited his ability to speak would be nice. He would open his mouth and gibberish would come out. Of course that’s not much different than now. Maybe a big stroke that kills him is a good idea after all.

But then again, his supporters will claim he was murdered.
You hope his supporters claim he was murdered. Unfortunately what's more likely is Trumptards will say Trump faked his own death so he could work more closely with JFK Jnr and the pair will come out and expose the globalist cultural marxist pedo ring that is run by Hillary, Tom Hanks and Taylor Swift in [insert date here, it really doesn't matter because the date will always change].

You think I'm joking? There is no difference between QAnon and Trump anymore.
 
I don’t wish him dead, but a small stroke that limited his ability to speak would be nice. He would open his mouth and gibberish would come out. Of course that’s not much different than now. Maybe a big stroke that kills him is a good idea after all.

But then again, his supporters will claim he was murdered.
You hope his supporters claim he was murdered. Unfortunately what's more likely is Trumptards will say Trump faked his own death so he could work more closely with JFK Jnr and the pair will come out and expose the globalist cultural marxist pedo ring that is run by Hillary, Tom Hanks and Taylor Swift in [insert date here, it really doesn't matter because the date will always change].

You think I'm joking? There is no difference between QAnon and Trump anymore.

Trump HAD to fake his own death so he could carry on as the real President while the Biden Crime Family keeps on trying to kill both him and JFK JR.
 
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