Bitcoin biting the dust?

[bilby]

So now it's my fault you are so infatuated with your own wrong ideas that you can't see the humor?

Whose fault it is that I don't find your comment funny is dependent on whether or not it was actually funny.

Whether my idea was wrong is dependent on whether or not you have correctly grasped my meaning, before declaring it to be wrong.

It seems to me that your stated issue is that I used the word "correction" as an abbreviation for "very severe correction", which I felt was obvious from context; And that you leaped upon this as hard proof that I don't know what a correction is, because everyone can see that small corrections happen frequently.

Your uncharitable interpretation, and your choice of an insulting and derisive response, rather than a request for clarification, when you detected a discreapancy between what you thought I had said, and the bleeding bloody obvious; Coupled with your "Schrödinger's Asshole" response that your meanness was "a joke" when you were called on it? All of that is on you.

You aren't funny; You aren't kind; And you aren't anywhere close to being as smart as you think you are, despite your being smart enough that you rarely encounter people as smart as you or smarter. All
of which gives other people a dim view of your condecension and rudeness. I know this, because that was me, too. It took me many decades to (mostly) grow out of it.

Now, can we drop the pissing contest, and try to be courteous and charitable towards each other - and given that we have a lot in common, and are both highly intelligent autists, maybe even become friends - or should we just agree to ignore each other?

 

[bilby]

Yes, other metals have their own uniquenesses, but objective observers will read this list and see that gold is, after all, very special.

...as are all chemical elements. A list of unique properties could be complied for any of them*.









* Well, except Neodymium, which is just Praseodymium in a fancy hat.

 

[Jarhyn]

Gold is an unique metal.

So are all the others...

1. Gold is the most malleable of all metals.

2. Gold is the most ductile of all metals. Typical gold leaf is 0.1 microns thick -- much thinner than aluminum foil. Gold leaf as thin as 0.0005 microns -- just two layers of atoms -- has been produced.

3. Gold resists corrosion; it doesn't rust or tarnish. Famously, Gold is dissolved using aqua regia, a mixture of hydrochloric acid and nitric acid.

4. Gold is the 3rd best electric conductor of any metal, behind only silver and copper.

5. Gold is very reflective. Among several other applications of gold in aerospace, many satellites are covered with gold foil. (Because of the extreme thinness possible with gold foil, this gold is not even particularly expensive.)

Yes, other metals have their own uniquenesses, but objective observers will read this list and see that gold is, after all, very special.

Amusing anecdote: In the mid 1970's, silver was often used for electrical connections on circuit boards. Silver is second only to gold for malleability and ductility; is slightly better as a conductor and much less expensive. But it does react with some chemicals in even slightly polluted air; silver salts form and migrate across a circuit board eventually causing short circuits. It took months for the circuit boards to fail; manufacturers were disheartened to learn that circuit boards they'd shipped were "time bombs", due to fail after some months

This had nothing to do with my duties, but I overheard a report to our V.P. of Engineering that one machine in Germany was NOT experiencing trouble. The C.E. doing maintenance on that machine was cycling spares and taking them home to run through his dishwasher! "Find out what detergent he uses" was the V.P.'s immediate reaction on hearing this.

Of course this is all off the sub-topic, which is Investment Hedging. Although several investment managers whose opinion is hugely more valuable than mine recommend a large gold position in a diversified portfolio (especially given rising debt levels), I might prefer giving priority to real estate or even perhaps crypro-currency. We hold some gold instead because my daughter is being very cautious about choosing a real estate parcel. And being a landlord or playing with crypto might be incompatible with our carefree relaxed life-style.

But detailed financial advice is NOT the purpose here. Instead I just want to rectify the confusion which might have resulted from flippant gibberish like "gold is worthless."

My intent was to amuse, not to insult.

Then you failed.

So now it's my fault you are so infatuated with your own wrong ideas that you can't see the humor?

The only reason, literally the only reason I want to work with gold is because it has a nice color, is highly ductile, and stays shiny.

It does have value as a conductor, too, I'll grant, and I would probably use it for that in a few projects...

People can pretend all they want that gold has value because it is useful, but the reality is that it has value because it has a hard limit on how much we can acquire, is pretty, and serves well for decorating things but that's only the initial impetus; those ceased being reasons for its value in antiquity.

The real benefit of gold has been that I less you control a nation's resources, you can't generally acquire any at all: it is rare and complicated to get through unofficial channels.

Bitcoin has value for much the same reason: it has a fixed volume at any point in time, and is impossible to get except through normal transactions. Bitcoin has one benefit going for it in addition: because there is no one physical resource that actually needs to be exchanged, it is usable from anywhere.

The thing is, as I keep saying, because the majority of real purchase on Bitcoin is for crime, investing in Bitcoin is the closest thing to speculation on criminal markets.

Given who we have for a president-elect, though... Well, it might not be the worst investment, just sayin'

 

[Swammerdami]

Now, can we drop the pissing contest, and try to be courteous and charitable towards each other - and given that we have a lot in common, and are both highly intelligent autists, maybe even become friends - or should we just agree to ignore each other?

I would like us to be courteous and friendly. I admit that I am too easily annoyed and too easy to get angry. In real life I get angry MUCH MUCH less often than I used to. This is perhaps due in part to letting myself vent my anger on message-boards!

As an example, I started a thread on the History of Money. It is an interesting topic even WITHOUT making value judgements, or attempting to predict the future. You objected to my usage of the word "intrinsic." We could have hunted for a different word, or agreed that the exact meaning of that exact word was irrelevant: Wampum necklaces were once used as money.

But you couldn't let it go. "Intrinsic ... intrinsic ... intrinsic ... intrinsic ..." was all we heard from you. Over and over and over and over and over. I had to abandon the entire thread despite having interesting and useful points yet to write.

I'm reminded of a passage from one of Feynman's books. During a technical conference at Los Alamos someone gave the correct answer to a technical question. But discussion continued. Feynman sat there, too junior to speak, wondering why none of these geniuses repeated the correct answer. Finally when Oppenheimer(?) ended the discussion by confirming the correct answer, Feynman realized that these were smart people who did NOT need repetition.

It was appropriate for you to mention the ambiguity of the word "intrinsic." Perhaps I was obstinate in not quickly switching to some alternate adjective. (Though it was hard to find one that wouldn't suffer from the same confusion.) I would have preferred if you had complained about the word "intrinsic" just once or twice instead of rendering the entire thread useless.

 

[Jarhyn]

Gold is an unique metal.

So are all the others...

1. Gold is the most malleable of all metals.

2. Gold is the most ductile of all metals. Typical gold leaf is 0.1 microns thick -- much thinner than aluminum foil. Gold leaf as thin as 0.0005 microns -- just two layers of atoms -- has been produced.

3. Gold resists corrosion; it doesn't rust or tarnish. Famously, Gold is dissolved using aqua regia, a mixture of hydrochloric acid and nitric acid.

4. Gold is the 3rd best electric conductor of any metal, behind only silver and copper.

5. Gold is very reflective. Among several other applications of gold in aerospace, many satellites are covered with gold foil. (Because of the extreme thinness possible with gold foil, this gold is not even particularly expensive.)

Yes, other metals have their own uniquenesses, but objective observers will read this list and see that gold is, after all, very special.

Amusing anecdote: In the mid 1970's, silver was often used for electrical connections on circuit boards. Silver is second only to gold for malleability and ductility; is slightly better as a conductor and much less expensive. But it does react with some chemicals in even slightly polluted air; silver salts form and migrate across a circuit board eventually causing short circuits. It took months for the circuit boards to fail; manufacturers were disheartened to learn that circuit boards they'd shipped were "time bombs", due to fail after some months

This had nothing to do with my duties, but I overheard a report to our V.P. of Engineering that one machine in Germany was NOT experiencing trouble. The C.E. doing maintenance on that machine was cycling spares and taking them home to run through his dishwasher! "Find out what detergent he uses" was the V.P.'s immediate reaction on hearing this.

Of course this is all off the sub-topic, which is Investment Hedging. Although several investment managers whose opinion is hugely more valuable than mine recommend a large gold position in a diversified portfolio (especially given rising debt levels), I might prefer giving priority to real estate or even perhaps crypro-currency. We hold some gold instead because my daughter is being very cautious about choosing a real estate parcel. And being a landlord or playing with crypto might be incompatible with our carefree relaxed life-style.

But detailed financial advice is NOT the purpose here. Instead I just want to rectify the confusion which might have resulted from flippant gibberish like "gold is worthless."

My intent was to amuse, not to insult.

Then you failed.

So now it's my fault you are so infatuated with your own wrong ideas that you can't see the humor?

The only reason, literally the only reason I want to work with gold is because it has a nice color, is highly ductile, and stays shiny. Since time immemorial, gold has been valued because it can be used to make pretty baubles that last a long time.

It does have value as a conductor, too, but that happened after the collective decision to value it for currency.

Honestly I think the argument between you two is kind of stupid.

We value it, ultimately, because it is a bearer-currency, because we assigned it the value of the void which we assign to all money in lieu of other uses, which it need not necessarily have. What did value did giant standing stones have other than the value implied by the desire to have its ledger signed to you in exchange for deferred value created by shared faith in each other over the ledger?

Bitcoin has as much value as a giant rock or a piece of metal. It is in the promise made by the person who gives it to you that you have done some amount of work to contribute to the joy of everyone to merit your holding it. It is a thing created by faith, but not faith in anything unseen. Rather, it is faith in each other and in the authority that controls the supply to keep the supply controlled to those who contribute to the system which brought us the piece of currency in exchange for our work.

Sometimes that work is as meaningless as digging up a rock so that greedy assholes can hide it and prevent me from ever actually making shiny baubles from it. Sometimes that work is as meaningless as converting the energy from a power plant into heat, proving incontrovertibly that you had disposable wealth that you burned to be vested in such a scheme. Both deny the world access to something for the sake of presenting a currency, and agreement over who owns a number is as important and binding as an agreement over who "owns" a shiny rock: as binding as the force brought to bear by the person who makes the claim against all comers.

As I keep saying, though, the value of Bitcoin will only endure so long as networks remain, and will endure as long as people who wish to commit crimes can get a hold of it at anything approaching a stable price point.

 

[Jarhyn]

Well, as I was predicting, Bitcoin is surging. How high will it go before the bubble pops? Only time will tell!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Bitcoin has as much value as a giant rock or a piece of metal. It is in the promise made by the person who gives it to you that you have done some amount of work to contribute to the joy of everyone to merit your holding it. It is a thing created by faith, but not faith in anything unseen. Rather, it is faith in each other and in the authority that controls the supply to keep the supply controlled to those who contribute to the system which brought us the piece of currency in exchange for our work.

Sometimes that work is as meaningless as digging up a rock so that greedy assholes can hide it and prevent me from ever actually making shiny baubles from it. Sometimes that work is as meaningless as converting the energy from a power plant into heat, proving incontrovertibly that you had disposable wealth that you burned to be vested in such a scheme. Both deny the world access to something for the sake of presenting a currency, and agreement over who owns a number is as important and binding as an agreement over who "owns" a shiny rock: as binding as the force brought to bear by the person who makes the claim against all comers.

As I keep saying, though, the value of Bitcoin will only endure so long as networks remain, and will endure as long as people who wish to commit crimes can get a hold of it at anything approaching a stable price point.

Except Bitcoin has no value. That is implicit based on how volatile the trading price for it is. Actual currency has value based on a very complicated myriad of processes, economics, supply and demand, etc... The value goes up and down generally based on some form of cause and effect, supply and demand.

Bitcoin... it goes up and down. It's supply is relatively static. There are no fundamentals to base its value on. In fact, there is no reason why the value of bitcoin should change at all, except maybe it the ability to spend it increased. But even then, what does bitcoin provide that the US dollar doesn't, when it comes to ease of transactions? Almost nothing, legally that is. The only benefit of bitcoin is the mindless speculation around it and people learning how to use it to launder money. If criminal enterprises use it to embezzle and launder money, growth can be had due to increased demand and fixed supply. But that is generally it.

 

[Jarhyn]

Gold is an unique metal.

So are all the others...

1. Gold is the most malleable of all metals.

2. Gold is the most ductile of all metals. Typical gold leaf is 0.1 microns thick -- much thinner than aluminum foil. Gold leaf as thin as 0.0005 microns -- just two layers of atoms -- has been produced.

3. Gold resists corrosion; it doesn't rust or tarnish. Famously, Gold is dissolved using aqua regia, a mixture of hydrochloric acid and nitric acid.

4. Gold is the 3rd best electric conductor of any metal, behind only silver and copper.

5. Gold is very reflective. Among several other applications of gold in aerospace, many satellites are covered with gold foil. (Because of the extreme thinness possible with gold foil, this gold is not even particularly expensive.)

Yes, other metals have their own uniquenesses, but objective observers will read this list and see that gold is, after all, very special.

Amusing anecdote: In the mid 1970's, silver was often used for electrical connections on circuit boards. Silver is second only to gold for malleability and ductility; is slightly better as a conductor and much less expensive. But it does react with some chemicals in even slightly polluted air; silver salts form and migrate across a circuit board eventually causing short circuits. It took months for the circuit boards to fail; manufacturers were disheartened to learn that circuit boards they'd shipped were "time bombs", due to fail after some months

This had nothing to do with my duties, but I overheard a report to our V.P. of Engineering that one machine in Germany was NOT experiencing trouble. The C.E. doing maintenance on that machine was cycling spares and taking them home to run through his dishwasher! "Find out what detergent he uses" was the V.P.'s immediate reaction on hearing this.

Of course this is all off the sub-topic, which is Investment Hedging. Although several investment managers whose opinion is hugely more valuable than mine recommend a large gold position in a diversified portfolio (especially given rising debt levels), I might prefer giving priority to real estate or even perhaps crypro-currency. We hold some gold instead because my daughter is being very cautious about choosing a real estate parcel. And being a landlord or playing with crypto might be incompatible with our carefree relaxed life-style.

But detailed financial advice is NOT the purpose here. Instead I just want to rectify the confusion which might have resulted from flippant gibberish like "gold is worthless."

My intent was to amuse, not to insult.

Then you failed.

So now it's my fault you are so infatuated with your own wrong ideas that you can't see the humor?

The only reason, literally the only reason I want to work with gold is because it has a nice color, is highly ductile, and stays shiny. Since time immemorial, gold has been valued because it can be used to make pretty baubles that last a long time.

It does have value as a conductor, too, but that happened after the collective decision to value it for currency.

Honestly I think the argument between you two is kind of stupid.

We value it, ultimately, because it is a bearer-currency, because we assigned it the value of the void which we assign to all money in lieu of other uses, which it need not necessarily have. What did value did giant standing stones have other than the value implied by the desire to have its ledger signed to you in exchange for deferred value created by shared faith in each other over the ledger?

Bitcoin has as much value as a giant rock or a piece of metal. It is in the promise made by the person who gives it to you that you have done some amount of work to contribute to the joy of everyone to merit your holding it. It is a thing created by faith, but not faith in anything unseen. Rather, it is faith in each other and in the authority that controls the supply to keep the supply controlled to those who contribute to the system which brought us the piece of currency in exchange for our work.

Sometimes that work is as meaningless as digging up a rock so that greedy assholes can hide it and prevent me from ever actually making shiny baubles from it. Sometimes that work is as meaningless as converting the energy from a power plant into heat, proving incontrovertibly that you had disposable wealth that you burned to be vested in such a scheme. Both deny the world access to something for the sake of presenting a currency, and agreement over who owns a number is as important and binding as an agreement over who "owns" a shiny rock: as binding as the force brought to bear by the person who makes the claim against all comers.

As I keep saying, though, the value of Bitcoin will only endure so long as networks remain, and will endure as long as people who wish to commit crimes can get a hold of it at anything approaching a stable price point.

Except Bitcoin has no value. That is implicit based on how volatile the trading price for it is. Actual currency has value based on a very complicated myriad of processes, economics, supply and demand, etc... The value goes up and down generally based on some form of cause and effect, supply and demand.

Bitcoin... it goes up and down. It's supply is relatively static. There are no fundamentals to base its value on. In fact, there is no reason why the value of bitcoin should change at all, except maybe it the ability to spend it increased. But even then, what does bitcoin provide that the US dollar doesn't, when it comes to ease of transactions? Almost nothing, legally that is. The only benefit of bitcoin is the mindless speculation around it and people learning how to use it to launder money. If criminal enterprises use it to embezzle and launder money, growth can be had due to increased demand and fixed supply. But that is generally it.

By that definition of value dollars have no value.

You can buy a pizza with bitcoins, you can buy crimebux with bitcoins, you can pay to win in a video game with Bitcoin and you can sell bitcoins for dollars.

That is unequivocally "value".

No money has fundamentals of true value. Nothing that sits in a vault and only exists as a theoretical backing of a ledger has "real" value.

Monetary value is specifically negotiable, especially since the end of the gold standard.

It is created by people saying "I want this much of it in exchange for something that does have real value".

It is like an imaginary number to the concrete and intrinsic value stuff has.

And Bitcoin is traded for stuff! Mostly as an intermediate coin because it is a "gateway cryptocurrency" which buys and trades easily but doesn't offer the privacy of paper cash except in the trade of whole wallets.

I keep pointing out that as long as it's useful for online purchases that can reach around attempts to monitor the transaction, there is great value.

Seriously, if the country is about to crack down on stuff, black market money has a lot of value.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Except Bitcoin has no value. That is implicit based on how volatile the trading price for it is. Actual currency has value based on a very complicated myriad of processes, economics, supply and demand, etc... The value goes up and down generally based on some form of cause and effect, supply and demand.

Bitcoin... it goes up and down. It's supply is relatively static. There are no fundamentals to base its value on. In fact, there is no reason why the value of bitcoin should change at all, except maybe it the ability to spend it increased. But even then, what does bitcoin provide that the US dollar doesn't, when it comes to ease of transactions? Almost nothing, legally that is. The only benefit of bitcoin is the mindless speculation around it and people learning how to use it to launder money. If criminal enterprises use it to embezzle and launder money, growth can be had due to increased demand and fixed supply. But that is generally it.

By that definition of value dollars have no value.

Not really, because I already included text discussing the cause and effect for sovereign currency.

You can buy a pizza with bitcoins, you can buy crimebux with bitcoins, you can pay to win in a video game with Bitcoin and you can sell bitcoins for dollars.

That is unequivocally "value".

That isn't "value" it is utility that you are describing. The value of the US dollar is based on a massive consensus of dozens of nations, global banks, the American economy, America's debt, and several decades of history. If I go outside and buy something today or tomorrow in American dollars, the price of the object will be the same because the US dollar has an understood value. A value that can change based on economic fundamentals. Some currencies suffer deflation or inflation, due to economic fundamentals. Economics isn't physics, but it has a great deal of predictive power.

Bitcoin has a ridiculously volatile trading price, not a value. It makes precious metals look stable. Any currency that did what Bitcoin did in the last coupe of months would have destroyed the national economy.

And Bitcoin is traded for stuff! Mostly as an intermediate coin because it is a "gateway cryptocurrency" which buys and trades easily but doesn't offer the privacy of paper cash except in the trade of whole wallets.

I keep pointing out that as long as it's useful for online purchases that can reach around attempts to monitor the transaction, there is great value.

Value is scalar thing. If the magnitude of the scalar thing isn't remotely stable, it isn't much of a value. It is more of a statistic.

Seriously, if the country is about to crack down on stuff, black market money has a lot of value.

As I noted, there is no real world value to Bitcoin that is legal.

 

[Jarhyn]

US dollar is based on a massive consensus of dozens of nations, global banks, the American economy, America's debt, and several decades of history

So, nothing more than shared belief that a dollar has value.

Which is exactly what Bitcoin has from different entities.

The one thing Bitcoin doesn't have much of is security in publicly traded stock and real estate, which is instead abstracted via tokens legally attached to such instruments.

In some ways this amounts to the lack of an infrastructure of enforcement on burdening legal trade of an asset upon a specific digital ledger.

And it's not that it can't be, just that no such thing has seen any sort of legal test, which I see happening and going in a very corruption-friendly way in the next 4 years.

I can very much see legalization of cryptocurrency based company stocks, which would enable a huge variety of unregulated trading because of the "trustless atomic swap" capability and the ability to use closed-ledger coins for it.

You seriously don't seem to understand that there's nothing structurally different between cryptocurrencies and money, other than full scale legal recognition as such.

It's still very much a form of fungible currency useful for the purchase and sale of goods, and some of its value is in its ease of use for things criminals do.

Criminals are in power, so an investment in Bitcoin is an investment in at least the current generation of criminal enterprise. Over the next year at least, that's probably a sound investment. Then sell out and get into something stable as soon as other assets can keep you comfortable and funded in your affairs.

If you want to steal some money from dummies.

This administration will probably kill it though to cash in on popping the bubble, so don't get greedy.

And if they don't, something else will probably happen.

 

[Bomb#20]

Two traditional Chinese medicine practitioners debating whether ground elephant tusk contains qi.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

US dollar is based on a massive consensus of dozens of nations, global banks, the American economy, America's debt, and several decades of history

So, nothing more than shared belief that a dollar has value.

That is the best we've got. Currency isn't a hadron.

Which is exactly what Bitcoin has from different entities.

Except it doesn't have a value. Just a spot price. I'm not arguing that Bitcoin doesn't exist. I'm saying that it is not a currency, can't be a currency, doesn't function as a currency. It is a new technology was developed and it is very valuable for criminals.

 

[RVonse]

It is a new technology was developed and it is very valuable for criminals.

Since our government is a criminal enterprise in disguise, good and decent people have to be criminals just to get by. Our government purposely counterfeiting our currency is exactly why gold and bit coin are so extremely popular now. Becausee the common man does not want to toil their entire life just to let their life savings inflate away, they are interested in any sort of legitimate store of value. Criminal or not. Hardly a day can go by that I don't hear a gold commercial either on radio or television.

Bitcoin is merely the software version of gold hardware. It has value exactly why Microsoft has value even though their operating system is nothing but bits and zeros.

If Buffet thinks bitcoin is a scam bubble waiting to break, he will have to wait until the US government starts acting responsibly again. A solid non inflatable currency is the only thing that will convince the public to trust our government. And I'm not holding my breath for that.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It is a new technology was developed and it is very valuable for criminals.

Since our government is a criminal enterprise in disguise, good and decent people have to be criminals just to get by. Our government purposely counterfeiting our currency is exactly why gold and bit coin are so extremely popular now.

No, ignorance is. When gold and silver were the standard, the economy was generally worse. Your steadfast refusal to read about US economic history is something you need to work on if you ever want to start being remotely sober when it comes to economics.

Becausee the common man does not want to toil their entire life just to let their life savings inflate away, they are interested in any sort of legitimate store of value. Criminal or not. Hardly a day can go by that I don't hear a gold commercial either on radio or television.

On tv, I see people selling sham life insurance and reverse mortgages to the elderly. Are those viable ideas too?

The gold companies get gullible people to buy physical gold at 20 to 30% commission rates, and sell at those rates, which makes it so hard to actual make money on the "investment". Those people could simply buy an ETF tracking gold on the Stock Market, at nearly no cost in commission, $5 or $7 a trade. But there is no profit for anyone in selling that service.

Bitcoin is merely the software version of gold hardware.

No, it is the digital version of tulips.

 

[TV and credit cards]

The dollar has the backing of the US government and its stability is backstopped by our phenomenal massive military. So if the US government says all transactions will be in dollars and no others, bitcoin likely goes poof.

Now then, President elect Numbnuts wants to make it a strategic reserve. I suspect it's just so he and his can make more regular money off it.

 

[RVonse]

It is a new technology was developed and it is very valuable for criminals.

Since our government is a criminal enterprise in disguise, good and decent people have to be criminals just to get by. Our government purposely counterfeiting our currency is exactly why gold and bit coin are so extremely popular now.

No, ignorance is. When gold and silver were the standard, the economy was generally worse. Your steadfast refusal to read about US economic history is something you need to work on if you ever want to start being remotely sober when it comes to economics.

I can understand how I might be stupid and ignorant but how do you explain all the other much more learned people who do believe in gold and bitcoin? I'm certainly not the only one who thinks our government is corrupt. And history shows how every other empire before the US has inflated their economy out of existence in exactly the same manner.

What is the US doing any differently? We are giving money away during pandemics and creating more debt than we earn. How is that any different than the other empire's who have fallen?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It is a new technology was developed and it is very valuable for criminals.

Since our government is a criminal enterprise in disguise, good and decent people have to be criminals just to get by. Our government purposely counterfeiting our currency is exactly why gold and bit coin are so extremely popular now.

No, ignorance is. When gold and silver were the standard, the economy was generally worse. Your steadfast refusal to read about US economic history is something you need to work on if you ever want to start being remotely sober when it comes to economics.

I can understand how I might be stupid and ignorant but how do you explain all the other much more learned people who do believe in gold and bitcoin?

Learned people don't believe in gold. The average retirement guidance says a small amount of your investments should go into metals.

I'm certainly not the only one who thinks our government is corrupt.

But you also seemed to think advertisements for physical gold was an indicator that it was a good idea to follow up with that and get gouged by those shill companies.

And history shows how every other empire before the US has inflated their economy out of existence in exactly the same manner.
What is the US doing any differently? We are giving money away during pandemics and creating more debt than we earn. How is that any different than the other empire's who have fallen?

The US dollar could be on the verge of destruction and becoming toilet paper grade. But that doesn't make Bitcoin a safe investment. That'd make gold a safer investment. None of your doomsday speak addresses the fundamental problem of Bitcoin. It has no reason to exist (other than to launder money). As long the US pays interest on its bonds, the US dollar has viability for existing.

 

[Elixir]

The US dollar could be on the verge of destruction and becoming toilet paper grade. But that doesn't make Bitcoin a safe investment. That'd make gold a safer investment.

It is hard to imagine a scenario where gold was not convertible to any other currency.
Can’t say that about bitcoin, the dollar or any other contrivance.

As long the US pays…

Now that what “the US pays” will shortly become a function of what King Donald wants, and the fact that King Donald can be counted on to default, we should all buy bitcoin before the fucktard tanks the dollar. But only if he goes in on it first, so you help drive the price of His holdings up.

 

[Jarhyn]

The US dollar could be on the verge of destruction and becoming toilet paper grade. But that doesn't make Bitcoin a safe investment. That'd make gold a safer investment.

It is hard to imagine a scenario where gold was not convertible to any other currency.
Can’t say that about bitcoin, the dollar or any other contrivance.

As long the US pays…

Now that what “the US pays” will shortly become a function of what King Donald wants, and the fact that King Donald can be counted on to default, we should all buy bitcoin before the fucktard tanks the dollar. But only if he goes in on it first, so you help drive the price of His holdings up.

It's still all built on exactly the mere claim of individuals that they want so much of it for so much of this, or will give so much of it for that.

It doesn't matter what this is. That's what makes money money, that and whatever forces govern the rules and patterns of its exchange.

This gives currency itself a value in terms of the utility of the mechanism of accounting and exchange.

Bitcoin has less stable belief value, a strong "trustlessness" value, low governmental enforcement of external contract validation and low need for it in multisig groups, and high criminal utility.

It is better as a currency for criminals, and is currently legal, in an environment run by criminals.

It has a special utility as a currency that cash money lacks.

It's going to gain some value until the government moves to endorse some other cryptocurrency for contacting American dollar markets, at which point it will be outlawed, and something awful will replace it.

 

[Elixir]

A lot of money launderers and other criminals will be having a heyday for the next few years. Another argument for buying bitcoin!

Hypothetical situaton:
Another one of Cheato’s insane followers tries to put a little scratch on his other ear and accidentally blows his head off. Cheato had say, 10 billion worth of bitcoin at his time of expiration. What happens to its value over the following weeks?