Black Jogger Gunned Down In The Street

[Toni]

I am shocked, shocked that this fine examples of Georgia's finest would use racial slurs while chasing a black man jogging down the street.

Wasn't he fleeing from a house under construction, not jogging as per the video from across the street?

Regardless, this might very well have been a flat out premeditated lynching. Likely be hard to prove in court though. But the case seems pretty good.

Of course, this was all a terrible mistake and yes, my clients did err in chasing after him, but they were trying to help which they are legally allowed to do (no they aren't). And only when they thought their lives were in danger, did they fire. These are law abiding people who don't have a record, unlike the person that was trespassing. They don't represent a threat to the community. My clients regret leaving their home that day and wish they could take back what happened, but you can't send these two to prison for making a mistake.

You can thank me for not needing to read a single article about what their lawyers say in the trial now.

Why would he 'flee' from a property under construction? I believe that the property owner himself thought that he stopped to get a drink of water as there was a water source on the site.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Is there not a video of him, taken from across the street, walking into frame, passing the home, stopping and looking at the house, proceed up the driveway, disappear into home under construction, then at some point charge away from the home?

 

[Toni]

Is there not a video of him, taken from across the street, walking into frame, passing the home, stopping and looking at the house, proceed up the driveway, disappear into home under construction, then at some point charge away from the home?

Why would he flee? It was an unsecured construction site. We know that multiple people stopped in to look around the site at various times. The owner said that nothing was ever taken from the house.

https://www.wrdw.com/content/news/N...e-speaks-out-about-Arbery-case-570463931.html


If you listen to the tape, you can easily get the impression that Arbery actually went into the house to avoid Travis McMichael.


Arbery was a young man, an athlete. It would make sense that he went for a job and ducked into a house to get away from McMichael. Or, as the owner mentioned (can't find the link now) to get water as there was a tap.

 

[Worldtraveller]

And more from AP: Testimony: Shooter used racist slur as Arbery lay dying. Snippet:

In a hearing to determine whether there was enough evidence to proceed with a murder trial, the lead Georgia Bureau of Investigation agent in the case testified that Travis and Greg McMichael and a third man in another pickup, William “Roddie” Bryan, used their trucks to chase down and box in Arbery, who repeatedly reversed directions and ran into a ditch while trying to escape.

Travis McMichael then got out of his truck and confronted Arbery, later telling police he shot him in self-defense after Arbery refused his order to get on the ground, GBI agent Richard Dial said. He said a close examination of the video of the shooting shows the first shot was to Arbery’s chest, the second was to his hand, and the third hit his chest again before he collapsed in the road in a subdivision in the port town of Brunswick.

So much for the self defense defense. There is no possible way Travis could have shot Arbery in the chest if Arbery was close enough to be grabbing the shotgun (as we see in the video, that part happens after being shot in the chest, regardless). A shotgun blast at point blank range would have blown a hole in Arbery's chest, which necessarily must have meant that he was farther away when the first shot was fired, just as I laid out previously and the video attests.

And of course he called him a “fucking nigger.”

Now the McMichaels will have the choice of the prettiest white boys to fuck in prison, where they will no doubt be celebrated as prison celebrities among the other white trash rotting behind bars where they all belong.

This is still Georgia. Conviction is hardly an assured thing. That'll come down to the jury, unless their lawyer tells them to plead.

I dunno. Given the current political climate, they would probably be convicted (unless of course, the county/state is ready to deal with even more massive protests) even by the crackers in that area.

Yeah, I said crackers. Fuckin' deal with it.

 

[Emily Lake]

Is there not a video of him, taken from across the street, walking into frame, passing the home, stopping and looking at the house, proceed up the driveway, disappear into home under construction, then at some point charge away from the home?

Does it matter? Would different answers to this make any difference to your opinion on the matter?

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

All the rampant speculation you spewed can be ignored now since at the preliminary hearing, the GBI agent Dial said the guy in the prior videos was Arbery, he said he could identify him by his face and tattoos.

Where? Unless there is additional testimony I'm not aware of, here is a complete transcript of Dial's testimony. Where does he say the guy in the prior videos was Arbery or that he could identify him by his face and tattoos?

The only parts (2 to be exact) where Dial mentions the previous videos are at about the 25:22 mark, where Dial is asked at the beginning of his testimony, "Can you please explain to the court the significance of that home and where it was located?":

This home is important in this investigation because the deceased victim of this investigation, Ahmaud Arbery, had been seen inside that home on security camera footage prior to the shooting incident. And on the day of the shooting incident, the neighbor had seen him inside of the home that’s under construction and had called 911 prior to the rest of the events taking place.

And then, at the 30:39 mark we have:

Richard Dial: (30:39)
From the interviews conducted by Glynn County PD, and you can actually see it on the video, Mr. Greg McMichael was in his front yard. You don’t see him, but you see, he says, he’s in the front yard working on some cushions for his boat, when he sees Mr. Arbery running down the street. In his interview with Glynn County PD, he says that he didn’t know if Arbery was chasing somebody or somebody was chasing him, but he recognized Arbery from previous video he had seen from February 11th of somebody that was inside this house that’s under construction.

Jesse Evans: (31:14)
I want to talk about that previous video, since you’ve broached that topic. Did Satilla Shores have a Facebook page during which residents were talking about that property and other things?

Richard Dial: (31:24)
Yes. Yes they did.

Jesse Evans: (31:25)
Did you find any discussions about the fact that somebody may have been in that residence previous to this?

Richard Dial: (31:32)
Yes. There was some discussion about it on the Facebook page, as well as on the February 11th report that was filed by the officer who responded. The person in there, he makes note that the person’s information was on that Facebook page.

The February 11th report, however, is the one from Travis McMichael. The surveillance video can be seen here. On it, you can only see someone's shape of slight build, about 5'5" judging from the door frame--with what appear to be good sized dreadlocks--for about 10 seconds total. No possible way to make a positive ID.

Here are some screenshots I took just to illustrate:



So, Greg McMichael told the Glynn County Police department (not Agent Diaz) on February 23rd that he somehow recognized Arbery as the man on THAT video.

Here, btw, is a review of the Facebook page: A look at the Satilla Shores Facebook group mentioned in the Ahmaud Arbery investigation.

Of particular note (emphasis mine):

A post from Feb. 11, shows the neighborhood’s communication amid the reported trespassing.

"Lock your cars and your houses," a member posted. "Prowlers in the neighborhood again. Police are patrolling."

Prowlers. Plural.

Note also this from December 9:



Very clearly a white male and the ONLY one on the page where the poster states positively that this guy stole "valuable things out of a vehicle!"

Then we have:

A post from Nov. 18 described a black male at the “same house” and a white male and female.

And we have this from Dial's testimony:

Jesse Evans: (26:17)
And when I say unsecured, describe for the court it’s state.

Richard Dial: (26:23)
The upper walls of the house and the windows were in the house. There are no interior walls, it’s studs. We had this from the security camera footage that shows the interior of the residence. There was no garage, or does not appear to be there was any garage doors on the house, which is actually attached to the house. From the video we have you couldn’t tell if it had a front door or not, but it’s very obvious that individuals were able to walk through there without being impeded in any way.

Jesse Evans: (26:48)
In fact, have you found as part of your investigation, other videos showing other people that walked through this unsecure residence at different times?

Richard Dial: (26:56)
Yes, sir. Besides Ahmaud Arbery, we have discovered video of at least two other groups of people that have been inside the residence during its construction.

"At least two other groups of people," several of them white and likewise assumed to have been engaging in criminal activity.

But most damning are these sections from Dial's testimony:

Jesse Evans: (33:05)
And that’s what I want to be clear on. So my follow up question to you is, when the defendants, the McMichaels armed themselves with this revolver and shotgun, did they make a 911 call before going after Mr. Arbery?

Richard Dial: (33:17)
No, sir. They did not.

Jesse Evans: (33:20)
So there’s no 911 call initially by them as they gave chase?

Richard Dial: (33:24)
That’s correct.
...
Jesse Evans: (43:00)
All right. And then along this lines as well, during the portions of the interview where Mr. Bryan was interviewed both by Glynn County Police Department and members of the Georgia Bureau of Investigations, did he make any admissions to you that his vehicle had any contact with the deceased victim? And any damage as a result there from ?

Richard Dial: (43:19)
Yes. He indicated at one point that his vehicle had contact with the victim. His impression was that the Mr. Arbery had been trying to open the driver’s side door, but had not got to the driver’s side door. He made that statement, initially. The Glynn County Police Department that day actually photograph the truck, you can see some palm prints, appear to be swipes, on the rear driver’s side door. His truck is a four-door truck, your honor. So there’s some swipe marks and palm prints there. There is also white, cotton fibers along the truck bed where the bed liner lips over the bed of the truck, there’s a little bit of plastic of that bed liner, there is white, cotton fibers along it, which Mr. Arbery during this pursuit and incident was wearing a white cotton shirt. There was also a dent directly below those white, cotton fibers. And that then we attributed to contact with Mr. Arbery because of its location.

Jesse Evans: (44:25)
Did Mr. Bryan confirmed during his interviews that the dent was actually as a result of the vehicle making contact with him?

Richard Dial: (44:33)
I believe that that was his surmise.
...
Jesse Evans: (45:12)
What happens when the McMichaels’ his truck gets ahead of the victim?

Richard Dial: (45:19)
Their vehicle gets ahead of Mr. Arbery, then they stop their vehicle. And this is almost at the intersection Satilla Drive and Holmes Road. They stop.

Jesse Evans: (45:27)
Is this a public roadway?

Richard Dial: (45:28)
It is.

Jesse Evans: (45:30)
Where is Mr. Bryan’s vehicle located during this portion of the chase?

Richard Dial: (45:34)
Mr. Bryan’s vehicle is behind Mr. Arbery. Mr. Arbery, at this point, is between Travis McMichael’s vehicle and Mr. Bryan’s vehicle.
...
Jesse Evans: (45:52)
Can you please describe the chronology of events after the McMichaels parked with their vehicle in the middle of this public roadway as Mr. Arbery approached the back of that vehicle?

Jesse Evans: (46:02)
As Mr. Arbery approached the back of that vehicle.

Richard Dial: (46:04)
Yes I can. Mr. Bryan began, picks up the phone, has been videotaping the whole time and holds it up so you have a view. You see Mr. Arbery running down Holmes Road going towards Satilla drive. You see Travis McMichael’s truck is parked in the road. Travis McMichael, the driver’s side door is open, Travis McMichael is there. It is apparent to me he is holding a firearm. His arm is raised as it’s in a pointed position. At one point, then Travis, I’m sorry, then Mr. Arbery is running. He then apparently see what, Travis McMichael, in front of him. Then he changes direction to go around the passenger side of the vehicle.

Jesse Evans: (46:47)
Rather than going to the driver’s side, where you had seen Travis McMichael with a shotgun. He’s now going to the opposite side of that truck that’s parked in this public roadway.

Richard Dial: (46:55)
That’s correct, he’s going around the truck.

Jesse Evans: (46:58)
What happened after that?

Richard Dial: (46:59)
Travis McMichael then moved from the driver’s side, where he’s actually standing when you opened the driver’s side door, the doors at his back initially in the video and he’s got the shotgun. He then positions himself around the driver’s side door, towards the front of the truck. You see Mr. Arbery running alongside the passenger side. And again, you see [inaudible 00:47:18] himself along the front of the truck. Mr. Arbery then comes up to positions, sees Travis McMichael, then makes the decision and turns and decides to engage Travis McMichael.
...
Jesse Evans: (51:00)
And give a description briefly for the benefit of the court and the record about what type of firearm that was, that was used to shoot Mr. Arbery.

Richard Dial: (51:09)
The 870, Remmington 870 12 gauge shotgun is a pump action shotgun. Meaning that to, once a shot is fired, the front forearm of the weapon has to be operated to eject the spent shell and then the forearm has to be operated again to load a new live round in.

So, from all of this we get that, not only was Arbery desperately trying to get away from not just the McMichaels, but Bryan as well, we also have it that Bryan was deliberately trying to hit Arbery with his car--and evidently actually did at some point--which meant, long before the fatal encounter, an attempt on Arbery's life had already occurred. One of the two cars chasing him--boxing him in--had hit him deliberately.

Iow, from Arbery's perspective, if the fact of two cars filled with white guys brandishing guns chasing him around the neighborhood wasn't sufficient for him to think his life was in danger, most definitely after being hit by one of those cars chasing him, he would have no other belief than these people meant to kill him, not simply detain him for no reason.

We also get that, just as I had speculated previously, Travis was in a firing position long before Arbery made the decision that his only chance for survival was to close the distance on Travis and fight for his life.

And we now have confirmation that the shotgun was a pump action shotgun, not an automatic feed shotgun. So Travis' actions were deliberate and not, say, done in the heat of the moment as might have been possible with an auto feed. He had to fire, pump, fire, pump, fire again.

The testimony continues from that point:

Jesse Evans: (51:38)
During Travis McMichael’s interview with police, did he make any admissions about firing the fatal gunshots in this particular case?

Richard Dial: (51:46)
He did. He admitted firing the weapon three times.

Jesse Evans: (51:50)
And the first shot that he articulated, where did he indicate to the police that that shot landed?

Richard Dial: (51:56)
The chest, Mr. Arbery’s chest.

Jesse Evans: (51:58)
So the first shot that Mr. Travis McMichael said that was inflicted on Mr. Arbery was one of the chest wounds that you had articulated here, correct?

Richard Dial: (52:07)
That is correct.

Jesse Evans: (52:08)
And is there video evidence that you saw that tends to corroborate based on your observation that that is an accurate statement that the chest wounds was, or least one of the chest wounds, was the first shot that was fired at the deceased victim Mr. Arbery?

Richard Dial: (52:25)
Yes, sir, there is.

Jesse Evans: (52:26)
Can you articulate for the court how that is that you’re able to see that?

Richard Dial: (52:29)
After the first shot, again, you see a struggle between Travis McMichael and Mr. Arbery. During that struggle, Mr. Arbery, while he was wearing a white shirt during this incident, during that struggle, you see the front of his shirt is saturated with blood.

Jesse Evans: (52:44)
He’s already saturated blood before the struggle that you can see on the video?

Richard Dial: (52:49)
Well that’s correct, during the struggle is mere seconds after the first shot, his front of his shirt is saturated with blood.

So, Travis knew he had hit Arbery (at nearly point-blank range) in the chest after the first shot. The wound is so bad and so obvious, in fact, that Arbery's white t shirt is immediately "saturated with blood."

Pump. Fire again. Pump. Fire again.

Those are not the actions of a man acting in self defense. But then we also have this (emphasis mine):

Richard Dial: (01:07:10)
Greg McMichael, pretty much relates on the body cam footage and then later on, whenever there’s, he actually is interviewed on camera by the Glenn County Police Department, he makes admissions to seeing Mr. Arbery running down the roadway. His statement to the effect is he didn’t know Mr. Arbery had stolen anything or not, but he had a gut feeling that Mr. Arbery may have been responsible for thefts that were in the neighborhood previously. And he actually, I think he actually says gut, his instinct told him that.

We'll come back to this bolded part in a bit. In regard to Travis' claim of self-defense:

He then tells Travis McMichael, he then describes the pursuit of Mr. Arbery. He says that, during Greg McMichael’s statement, he only hears two shots during his statement.

Richard Dial: (01:08:05)
It appears by looking at his description of events that he either didn’t realize the first shot or didn’t register it. He was, admits to being on the phone with 9-1-1 when the shooting was occurring, pulling his weapon.

Jesse Evans: (01:08:22)
Did he make any admissions to you about Mr. Bryan, at some point, volunteering to join into this chase of Mr. Arbery in the neighborhood, and how did he describe that?

Richard Dial: (01:08:32)
Yeah, he described that Mr. Bryan was trying to block him in as well.

Jesse Evans: (01:08:37)
Okay. And at the point of the actual shooting itself, did Mr. Greg McMichael make any admissions to Glen County investigators about any statements that he was making to Travis McMichael about what he should or shouldn’t do?

Richard Dial: (01:08:52)
Yes. He says, on the body camera footage, the first officer, he tells him that he was telling Travis McMichael, “Don’t-”

Richard Dial: (01:09:02)
Telling Travis McMichael, “Don’t. Don’t shoot.”

So, his father, an ex-cop, can clearly see that his own son is in no imminent/lethal danger, to the point where he is instructing him NOT to shoot.

The testimony continues:

Jesse Evans: (01:09:59)
What about any admissions that were made about the fatal shooting itself?

Richard Dial: (01:10:03)
He admits to firing his shotgun three times. He says that all three shots struck the victim and he said that the first shot was to the chest of the victim.

So, again, we have confirmation that Travis knew at the time that his first shot had hit Arbery in the chest, again at nearly point blank range, thus also confirming that he had to have shot him before Arbery tried to take the shotgun away from him.

And finally (at least for this transcript), we have:

Jesse Evans: (01:14:45)
Have you had an opportunity to review whether there’s any evidence of the defendants communicated with each other after the fatal shootings, but prior to the arrest warrant in this case?

Richard Dial: (01:14:54)
Yes, sir. I have.

Jesse Evans: (01:14:55)
Tell the court what you found about that since we’re talking about party to the crime conspiracy culpability in just a few minutes.

Richard Dial: (01:15:01)
Yes. We have uncovered evidence through statements that Greg McMichael had conversation with Mr. Bryan concerning the video in the incident.

Jesse Evans: (01:15:14)
Okay, and specifically, have you acquired a jail call where any of the McMichaels refer to Mr. Bryan in a favorable way?

Richard Dial: (01:15:23)
I have. There in a jail call that my agency obtained and reviewed, Greg McMichael was on the phone with a caller. The caller asked him about Mr. Bryan. At first, Mr. McMichael says he can’t talk about it, and then he says that Mr. Bryan’s an ally.

Jesse Evans: (01:15:42)
He uses the term ally referencing his co-defendant, Mr. Bryan?

Richard Dial: (01:15:45)
He does.

Jesse Evans: (01:15:46)
This is after the McMichael’s arrest, but prior to Mr. Bryan’s arrest?

Richard Dial: (01:15:50)
That’s correct.

Ally. Which explains why Bryan was arrested.

Now, back to this part:

His statement to the effect is he didn’t know Mr. Arbery had stolen anything or not, but he had a gut feeling that Mr. Arbery may have been responsible for thefts that were in the neighborhood previously. And he actually, I think he actually says gut, his instinct told him that.

Groups of people--prowlers, including several white people, ONE of which was alleged to have actually stolen "valuable things out of a vehicle" no less--nothing ever stolen by the "unknown black male" in English's construction site.

An admission that Greg McMichael did not know if Arbery had stolen anything or not, but he had a gut feeling--in spite of the above affirmation of an actual eyewitness to a white male stealing shit out of a vehicle (just as his son Travis had a gun stolen from his vehicle)-- just by seeing Arbery jogging down the street that he "may" have been responsible for "thefts" in the neighborhood previously that no other black male had conducted.

White guy ACTUALLY ACCUSED of stealing shit out of a vehicle in December. Two months later, McMichael's "gut" tells him that a jogging black male he couldn't possibly have positively identified from the February 11th surveillance video (that nevertheless never showed any theft), must be a thief and that armed pursuit (NOT calling 911) was the order of things.

That's it.

 

[blastula]

Where? Unless there is additional testimony I'm not aware of, here is a complete transcript of Dial's testimony. Where does he say the guy in the prior videos was Arbery or that he could identify him by his face and tattoos?

In fact there is additional testimony, which should have been obvious by how that transcript cuts off abruptly. The full hearing took about 7 hours of the day.

[YOUTUBE]AYW4VmwqT7I[/YOUTUBE]

The part I referenced is at 3:16:02,

So, yeah, you again wasted time on another interminable, worthless screed.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Where? Unless there is additional testimony I'm not aware of, here is a complete transcript of Dial's testimony. Where does he say the guy in the prior videos was Arbery or that he could identify him by his face and tattoos?

In fact there is additional testimony, which should have been obvious by how that transcript cuts off abruptly.

It doesn't cut off abruptly. The attorney says:

Just a moment, sir. I think that’s all I have at this time, judge.

Which is why I made a point of saying:

Unless there is additional testimony I'm not aware of, here is a complete transcript of Dial's testimony.

The part I referenced is at 3:16:02

Too bad you didn't actually source it at the same time as you referenced it, but I stand corrected. Agent Dial does in fact personally believe that Arbery was the man seen in English's previous surveillance videos, where Arbery also was never stealing anything.

So, yeah, you again wasted time on another interminable, worthless screed.

What Agent Dial does or does not personally believe to be the case is entirely irrelevant to what McMichael did or did not believe. Again, part of my "worthless screed" proved that McMichael referred ONLY to the February 11th video.

Let's waste some time again and reiterate (emphasis mine):

Richard Dial: (30:39)
From the interviews conducted by Glynn County PD, and you can actually see it on the video, Mr. Greg McMichael was in his front yard. You don’t see him, but you see, he says, he’s in the front yard working on some cushions for his boat, when he sees Mr. Arbery running down the street. In his interview with Glynn County PD, he says that he didn’t know if Arbery was chasing somebody or somebody was chasing him, but he recognized Arbery from previous video he had seen from February 11th of somebody that was inside this house that’s under construction.

Again, that would be this:



And then we have McMichael stating (according to Dial):

His statement to the effect is he didn’t know Mr. Arbery had stolen anything or not, but he had a gut feeling that Mr. Arbery may have been responsible for thefts that were in the neighborhood previously. And he actually, I think he actually says gut, his instinct told him that.

So, that's the ballgame regardless. Aside from the fact that the only theft reported by anyone on the Facebook page was conducted by a white male, McMichael admitted he had no legitimate cause to engage in armed pursuit of Arbery. Having a "gut" feeling is not sufficient cause to act, particularly when the unknown black male Diaz believes to have been Arbery on previous videos, never stole anything.

How could McMichael have a "gut" instinct that Arbery had been responsible for previous thefts, if he had seen the February 11th video, positively ID'd Arbery as the person in that video--and every one of the other videos for that matter--where nothing was ever stolen?

The Facebook page constantly refers to multiple people--prowlers, in particular a white couple with a black male--who are primarily breaking into people's cars.

If that is Arbery in English's previous surveillance videos, he is always alone, not breaking into any cars and never steals anything.

The only suspect to be directly accused of stealing something on the Facebook page--from someone's car no less (about a month before Travis' gun is taken from his car)--is this white guy:



So it clearly couldn't have been Greg McMichael's "gut" that motivated him to go after a black jogger even if he did recognize him from the February 11th video where he didn't steal anything.

And, of course, all of the OTHER points I made in my "worthless screed"--about how Arbery was deliberately boxed in and Bryan had already tried to kill him with his car and how Travis had been in a ready firing position and had to have fired the first shot before Arbery had grabbed his shotgun and how Travis had to manually pump the shotgun after knowing he had already hit Arbery in the chest, saturating his shirt with blood, thus proving that he was not acting in self-defense, etc., etc., etc--all stand.

But, yes, you're right, Agent Diaz personally believes it was Arbery never stealing anything in the other surveillance videos from English. You win the interwebz.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Is there not a video of him, taken from across the street, walking into frame, passing the home, stopping and looking at the house, proceed up the driveway, disappear into home under construction, then at some point charge away from the home?

Does it matter? Would different answers to this make any difference to your opinion on the matter?

If his purpose was innocent, why run away?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Is there not a video of him, taken from across the street, walking into frame, passing the home, stopping and looking at the house, proceed up the driveway, disappear into home under construction, then at some point charge away from the home?

Does it matter? Would different answers to this make any difference to your opinion on the matter?

If his purpose was innocent, why run away?

He had no reason to be there, it can be as simple as that. If he intended to steal or destroy something, he forgot to do that.

My only concern is saying he was jogging.

There is definitely much less evidence that he had any wrong intent verses the shooters having a premeditated drive to kill themselves a “damn nigger”.

 

[atrib]

Is there not a video of him, taken from across the street, walking into frame, passing the home, stopping and looking at the house, proceed up the driveway, disappear into home under construction, then at some point charge away from the home?

Does it matter? Would different answers to this make any difference to your opinion on the matter?

If his purpose was innocent, why run away?

Argument from ignorance much? And what does it matter what his intentions were? Did he do anything to even remotely justify his killing at the hands of armed vigilantes? I believe most reasonable people would say no, but for whatever reason, some people want to blame the victim instead of the killers who hunted him down in trucks, forced a confrontation, and finally killed him, based on mere suspicion. Mr Arbery is not the person responsible for the killing, and it is disgusting to see people trying to paint a picture which says otherwise.

 

[laughing dog]

Is there not a video of him, taken from across the street, walking into frame, passing the home, stopping and looking at the house, proceed up the driveway, disappear into home under construction, then at some point charge away from the home?

Does it matter? Would different answers to this make any difference to your opinion on the matter?

If his purpose was innocent, why run away?

Maybe he remembered he had to be somewhere. It makes no effing difference why he ran away or jogged. In this thread, it is clear you believe the victim committed "burglary" which would justify the posse's chase and actions. But you have no evidence whatsoever to base your belief other than your conjectures about intent.

 

[Patooka]

Is there not a video of him, taken from across the street, walking into frame, passing the home, stopping and looking at the house, proceed up the driveway, disappear into home under construction, then at some point charge away from the home?

Does it matter? Would different answers to this make any difference to your opinion on the matter?

If his purpose was innocent, why run away?

This is why police need new training. If an innocent civilian reacts in a manner that is contradictory to their intentions, then they deserve to be killed. I mean, that's obvious right?

 

[ruby sparks]

Is there not a video of him, taken from across the street, walking into frame, passing the home, stopping and looking at the house, proceed up the driveway, disappear into home under construction, then at some point charge away from the home?

Does it matter? Would different answers to this make any difference to your opinion on the matter?

If his purpose was innocent, why run away?

Good question. So since he didn’t, it seems, steal anything then my best guess is that if he was running away and not merely ‘out jogging’ then he knew he was trespassing and maybe when he came back out of the building he thought he’d been seen and so he thought it best to leg it rather than face awkward questions or accusations from residents who were neighbours. It was broad daylight, and as far as I can tell there were one or two people about.

It’s the sort of thing I might have done myself had I trespassed, even if only to get water or to have a gander at a house under construction because houses under construction are fascinating.

It’s also possible he just decided to start jogging. Or restart jogging, after walking a bit and then going into the building site.

Worst case scenario: he was in fact looking for something to steal but saw nothing small enough that he could fit in his shorts without it being obvious. Or, he was merely casing the joint. If we assume he was up to something then that would make more sense.

The larger point is that it doesn’t matter much, really, does it? Except if him being described as an entirely and completely innocent and decent human being annoys someone people, which to be fair I can understand, up to a point. The media tends to deal in tropes and stereotypes, there’s usually a goodie and a baddie. Maybe he was a bit more complicated. In the end though, it was awful what happened to him .

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

In this thread, it is clear you believe the victim committed "burglary" which would justify the posse's chase and actions. But you have no evidence whatsoever to base your belief other than your conjectures about intent.

And we have the police statement from Greg McMichael who expressly stated he had no evidence of Arbery committing any crime; just a "gut" instinct that he was the guy in the video from nearly two weeks prior (February 11th) who also didn't steal anything, so Loren's personal bias has zero worth in regard to the material elements of the case.

 

[blastula]

Indictments filed.

All 3 suspects indicted in Ahmaud Arbery shooting death - AJC

document

 

[ZiprHead]

Judge to weigh bond for father, son in Ahmaud Arbery slaying

BRUNSWICK, Ga. (AP) — A judge is scheduled to consider bond requests by a father and son jailed on murder charges in the February shooting of Ahmaud Arbery.

Gregory McMichael and his adult son, Travis McMichael, were to appear Thursday morning before Superior Court Judge Timothy Walmsley. They also have asked the judge to reject two of the counts against them, including malice murder, saying they were charged in a legally flawed indictment.

The McMichaels have been jailed since their arrests in May, more than two months after Arbery was slain. The McMichaels, who are white, chased and fatally shot the 25-year-old Black man after they spotted him running in their neighborhood just outside the port city of Brunswick.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

This is really disheartening and really exposes the issues of, at best, unintended systemic racism (or possibly just racism).

One of Arbery's legs moves and his head turns slightly. A gasping sound can be heard on the recording.

The second officer to arrive puts on rubber gloves, rolls Arbery over and presses a hand to the wound in his chest.
“He's still breathing, man,” says a man's voice nearby.

“I know. I'm going to try to do something for him," the officer replies. He stops after about two minutes and calls to tell dispatchers Arbery has died.

So this teen is the "bad guy" because it is implied he has to be the bad guy. So his health, any attempt to help him is non-existent. He is laying on the ground dying as a either a guy that "had what was coming to him" or a "nigger". Whether any aid could have been provided to help him survive is unknown, maybe even doubtful, but the fact that this is a situation where good ole boys are comforting each other in what may very well have been a hunt and kill just screams the issues that the underserved portion of our nation have been complaining about for a long time now.

Oh about the comforting I reference to?

Gregory McMichael can be seen trying to console his son, who's pacing back and forth.

“It's going to be OK,” Gregory McMichael tells him. “You had no choice.”

Yeah, comforting.

“Y’all aren’t putting him (the shooter / his son) in cuffs are you?” Gregory McMichael says.

“No," the officer replies. “Why would he be in cuffs?”

Yeah, so as I noted, the black teen on the ground to that officer, was either a "thug" (systemic racism) or a "nigger" (flat out racism).

Based on video footage, it didn't look like the teen was jogging. According to other video footage, it didn't look like he did anything wrong except "trespass" on a construction site, something every kid or teenager in America has done. These two guys were going to teach that teen a lesson and let their inner-Cartman do the thinking. And when they fucked up, they then made things even worse. And the cops arrive, the perpetrators are comforted while the victim, the actual victim, is left assumed dead.

And we are ignoring how all of this was covered up at the prosecution level.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

This is really disheartening and really exposes the issues of, at best, unintended systemic racism (or possibly just racism).

I think you're reading more into the situation than is there. There is simply nothing you can do about someone who has bled out and not a lot you can do about bleeding from the torso. While there might be racism giving up after a couple of minutes doesn't prove it.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

This is really disheartening and really exposes the issues of, at best, unintended systemic racism (or possibly just racism).

I think you're reading more into the situation than is there. There is simply nothing you can do about someone who has bled out and not a lot you can do about bleeding from the torso. While there might be racism giving up after a couple of minutes doesn't prove it.

Tending moral aid to the killers and none to the shooting victim is grotesque.

I remember an officer just talking to the car accident victim / car thief / convulsing body to die that night to ‘hang on’ until the chopper arrived.