Black Jogger Gunned Down In The Street

[Jimmy Higgins]

He wasn’t jogging.

Well, then left leaning media should stop calling him a jogger.
Call him "a black man pretending to be a jogger"

It stuck, makes it more dramatic... Man caught harmlessly trespassing on property shot isn't providing the same sort of picture.

The attorneys for the defense have been pressing hard on the racism button the entire trial from jury selection to closing arguments.

 

[blastula]

Before derailing more on socks, the toenail observation came from the autopsy report which said both his fingernails and toenails were dirty.

I watched some of the closings, and I think they do have a decent shot at acquittal, if they do successfully tap into suburbanite fear of encroaching crime. The only witnesses the defense called were neighbors to ask them about how crime has been increasing in their once very safe neighborhood.

The state is saying the defendants were the initial aggressors so had no right to self-defense, while the other side is arguing that they were lawfully trying to make a citizen's arrest. The law says you have to personally witness a crime to do an arrest, unless it's a felony when you can arrest if you have probable cause, a lower standard. The felony would be burglary. Arbery was caught on video trespassing but never burglarizing, but they're arguing that Arbery was likely a burglar because things were stolen at the house where he was caught on video. So when they saw him that day they had probable cause to arrest.

I think it could work, especially with how juries love to let you kill anybody you want so long as you say you were scared, especially if you're a cop or acting like a cop (Rittenhouse, Zimmerman), and they've been playing up how TM was in the Coast Guard.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I never wear socks when I do aerobics except when it's very cold. Aerobics is sort of like jogging or running

You do Aerobics in running shoes?
No socks and running shoes is a sure way to ruin your feet, not to mention shoes themselves. Lets be honest here, he tried to pretend to be a jogger to get away from these three idiots and then tried to wrestle one of the idiots with a gun and lost.

Not quite what happened. Man was stalked by angry white people in a truck. Then trapped by another white guy in a truck. Then one of the angry white people gets a gun. At what point is the black male supposed to think, "well, let's see how this plays out... might get lynched... they might find out this is just a misunderstanding". The white guy with a gun claims self-defense when man they stalked and point gun at... tries to defend himself from being lynched.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Before derailing more on socks, the toenail observation came from the autopsy report which said both his fingernails and toenails were dirty.

I watched some of the closings, and I think they do have a decent shot at acquittal, if they do successfully tap into suburbanite fear of encroaching crime. The only witnesses the defense called were neighbors to ask them about how crime has been increasing in their once very safe neighborhood.

The state is saying the defendants were the initial aggressors so had no right to self-defense, while the other side is arguing that they we're lawfully trying to make a citizen's arrest. The law says you have to personally witnesses a crime to do an arrest, unless it's a felony when you can arrest if you have probable cause, a lower standard. The felony would be burglary. Arbery was caught on video trespassing but never burglarizing, but they're arguing that Arbery was likely a burglar because things were stolen at the house that he was caught on video. So when they saw him that day they had probable cause to arrest.

I think it could work, especially with how juries love to let you kill anybody you want so long as you say you were scared, especially if you're a cop or acting like a cop (Rittenhouse, Zimmerman).

The jury can find however they want. The law says that the pa and son were guilty of illegally trying to arrest this guy. They had no right to do so. They witnessed no crime. While committing their crime, the guy is shot. Saying it is self defense really requires ending these ridiculous SYG laws, as it effectively says people without guns have no right to self-defense. And if they killed him in "self-defense", they might be lenient on the illegal arrest issue.

They are no less guilty than illegally detaining this man. And in committing that crime, they killed the person they were illegally detaining. But they are white... he is black.

And that is why we have that whole #BLM thing.

 

[barbos]

I never wear socks when I do aerobics except when it's very cold. Aerobics is sort of like jogging or running

You do Aerobics in running shoes?
No socks and running shoes is a sure way to ruin your feet, not to mention shoes themselves. Lets be honest here, he tried to pretend to be a jogger to get away from these three idiots and then tried to wrestle one of the idiots with a gun and lost.

Not quite what happened. Man was stalked by angry white people in a truck. Then trapped by another white guy in a truck. Then one of the angry white people gets a gun. At what point is the black male supposed to think, "well, let's see how this plays out... might get lynched... they might find out this is just a misunderstanding". The white guy with a gun claims self-defense when man they stalked and point gun at... tries to defend himself from being lynched.

If you are self-defending yourself by attacking a guy with a gun, chances are, they will self-defend themselves with you being dead in the end.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

So people who are up to no good, like armed robberies and gang warfare traditionally do not wear socks?

No, joggers wear socks and he was not.

There is no "No," even if I were half-joking.

The defense is saying joggers typically wear socks. Therefore, he probably wasn't jogging. They want you to conclude he was up to no good. But keep following one idea to the next. Criminals ALSO typically wear socks. Everyone does, but especially criminals who have to run away like what is being implied. So the whole sock thing is a meaningless exercise in inconsistently applying probabilities to impugn the victim, but ultimately is nothing.

 

[blastula]

On the other hand, I just learned that this shooting led Georgia to repeal their citizen's arrest law with strong bipartisan support. Brian Kemp was even prominently calling for repeal, and it passed unanimously in the House and got only one no vote in the Senate. So, perhaps antagonism to this behavior may be too strong to be overcome by the tendency to let anyone carrying a gun get off by claiming self-defense.

Gov. Kemp calls for overhaul of citizen’s arrest law after Ahmaud Arbery’s killing

Nearly one year after Ahmaud Arbery was shot to death by a former Glynn County cop and his son in a Glynn County neighborhood, Gov. Brian Kemp said is asking the Georgia Legislature to repeal a Civil War-era citizen’s arrest law that was initially used to not file charges in the Arbery case.

www.news4jax.com

Repeal of Georgia citizen’s arrest law approved after death of Ahmaud Arbery

Georgia's citizen’s arrest law came under renewed scrutiny in 2020 after it was cited by a prosecutor to justify not charging three white men involved in the shooting death of Ahmaud Arbery, a Black man. The Georgia Legislature largely repealed the law in 2021.

www.ajc.com

In Ahmaud Arbery's Name, Georgia Repeals Citizen's Arrest Law

Georgia's Republican governor, Brian Kemp, signed a law repealing the citizen's arrest law. The men charged in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery are using it as part of their defense in the murder case.

www.npr.org

 

[barbos]

So people who are up to no good, like armed robberies and gang warfare traditionally do not wear socks?

No, joggers wear socks and he was not.

There is no "No," even if I were half-joking.

The defense is saying joggers typically wear socks. Therefore, he probably wasn't jogging. They want you to conclude he was up to no good. But keep following one idea to the next. Criminals ALSO typically wear socks. Everyone does, but especially criminals who have to run away like what is being implied. So the whole sock thing is a meaningless exercise in inconsistently applying probabilities to impugn the victim, but ultimately is nothing.

Smart criminals (which is a rare breed ) are typically prepared, so they wear socks, running shoes and running shorts and they really run when they have to, they don't pretend when it becomes clear that they are being chased.
Ahmad was not smart criminal. He was a dumb idiot who thought that if he pretends to be a jogger he could jog away from 3 armed guys on a truck.

 

[Elixir]

On the other hand, I just learned that this shooting led Georgia to repeal their citizen's arrest law with strong bipartisan support. Brian Kemp was even prominently calling for repeal, and it passed unanimously in the House and got only one no vote in the Senate. So, perhaps antagonism to this behavior may be too strong to be overcome by the tendency to let anyone carrying a gun get off by claiming self-defense.

Gov. Kemp calls for overhaul of citizen’s arrest law after Ahmaud Arbery’s killing

Nearly one year after Ahmaud Arbery was shot to death by a former Glynn County cop and his son in a Glynn County neighborhood, Gov. Brian Kemp said is asking the Georgia Legislature to repeal a Civil War-era citizen’s arrest law that was initially used to not file charges in the Arbery case.

www.news4jax.com

Repeal of Georgia citizen’s arrest law approved after death of Ahmaud Arbery

Georgia's citizen’s arrest law came under renewed scrutiny in 2020 after it was cited by a prosecutor to justify not charging three white men involved in the shooting death of Ahmaud Arbery, a Black man. The Georgia Legislature largely repealed the law in 2021.

www.ajc.com

In Ahmaud Arbery's Name, Georgia Repeals Citizen's Arrest Law

Georgia's Republican governor, Brian Kemp, signed a law repealing the citizen's arrest law. The men charged in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery are using it as part of their defense in the murder case.

www.npr.org

I don't think there is genuine antagonism toward racist killings or vigilantism.
The Republicans want to excuse this murder, just like all the others.
Challenging, repealing or even just criticizing the law gives cover.
"Yeah, it's turrble, jes turrble. We gotta let 'em go. Such injustice!"

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

So people who are up to no good, like armed robberies and gang warfare traditionally do not wear socks?

No, joggers wear socks and he was not.

There is no "No," even if I were half-joking.

The defense is saying joggers typically wear socks. Therefore, he probably wasn't jogging. They want you to conclude he was up to no good. But keep following one idea to the next. Criminals ALSO typically wear socks. Everyone does, but especially criminals who have to run away like what is being implied. So the whole sock thing is a meaningless exercise in inconsistently applying probabilities to impugn the victim, but ultimately is nothing.

Smart criminals (which is a rare breed ) are typically prepared, so they wear socks, running shoes and running shorts and they really run when they have to, they don't pretend when it becomes clear that they are being chased.
Ahmad was not smart criminal. He was a dumb idiot who thought that if he pretends to be a jogger he could jog away from 3 armed guys on a truck.

Assuming he's dumb works both ways. Perhaps he's a dumb jogger with no socks. This tangent is meaningless, especially because it does not justify cornering him, running him down, as if you are going to lynch him.

 

[Toni]

So people who are up to no good, like armed robberies and gang warfare traditionally do not wear socks?

No, joggers wear socks and he was not.

There is no "No," even if I were half-joking.

The defense is saying joggers typically wear socks. Therefore, he probably wasn't jogging. They want you to conclude he was up to no good. But keep following one idea to the next. Criminals ALSO typically wear socks. Everyone does, but especially criminals who have to run away like what is being implied. So the whole sock thing is a meaningless exercise in inconsistently applying probabilities to impugn the victim, but ultimately is nothing.

Smart criminals (which is a rare breed ) are typically prepared, so they wear socks, running shoes and running shorts and they really run when they have to, they don't pretend when it becomes clear that they are being chased.
Ahmad was not smart criminal. He was a dumb idiot who thought that if he pretends to be a jogger he could jog away from 3 armed guys on a truck.

Or he thought that he was a free man in America and had the absolute right to walk, jog, dash, saunter, or roller skate down any street he so desired to. Wearing (gasp!) khaki shorts and no socks! Imagine how they would have freaked out if he’d been wearing a Colin Kaepernick t-shirt and an AK-15….

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I never wear socks when I do aerobics except when it's very cold. Aerobics is sort of like jogging or running

You do Aerobics in running shoes?
No socks and running shoes is a sure way to ruin your feet, not to mention shoes themselves. Lets be honest here, he tried to pretend to be a jogger to get away from these three idiots and then tried to wrestle one of the idiots with a gun and lost.

Not quite what happened. Man was stalked by angry white people in a truck. Then trapped by another white guy in a truck. Then one of the angry white people gets a gun. At what point is the black male supposed to think, "well, let's see how this plays out... might get lynched... they might find out this is just a misunderstanding". The white guy with a gun claims self-defense when man they stalked and point gun at... tries to defend himself from being lynched.

If you are self-defending yourself by attacking a guy with a gun, chances are, they will self-defend themselves with you being dead in the end.

Suppose he should have just let himself get lynched.

 

[barbos]

Assuming he's dumb works both ways. Perhaps he's a dumb jogger with no socks. This tangent is

That's not much of an assumption, that's a conclusion based on known facts.

meaningless, especially because it does not justify cornering him, running him down, as if you are going to lynch him.

Who is justifying that?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So people who are up to no good, like armed robberies and gang warfare traditionally do not wear socks?

No, joggers wear socks and he was not.

There is no "No," even if I were half-joking.

The defense is saying joggers typically wear socks. Therefore, he probably wasn't jogging. They want you to conclude he was up to no good. But keep following one idea to the next. Criminals ALSO typically wear socks. Everyone does, but especially criminals who have to run away like what is being implied. So the whole sock thing is a meaningless exercise in inconsistently applying probabilities to impugn the victim, but ultimately is nothing.

Smart criminals (which is a rare breed ) are typically prepared, so they wear socks, running shoes and running shorts and they really run when they have to, they don't pretend when it becomes clear that they are being chased.
Ahmad was not smart criminal. He was a dumb idiot who thought that if he pretends to be a jogger he could jog away from 3 armed guys on a truck.

He didn't steal anything when they saw him. There is no evidence he stole anything from that property ever.

 

[barbos]

Suppose he should have just let himself get lynched.

No, he should have stopped fooling anybody by pretending to be a jogger and really tried to escape or better did what people with guns told him to do.

 

[barbos]

He didn't steal anything when they saw him. There is no evidence he stole anything from that property ever.

True, that's why what he did was stupid.

 

[southernhybrid]

I never wear socks when I do aerobics except when it's very cold. Aerobics is sort of like jogging or running

You do Aerobics in running shoes?
No socks and running shoes is a sure way to ruin your feet, not to mention shoes themselves. Lets be honest here, he tried to pretend to be a jogger to get away from these three idiots and then tried to wrestle one of the idiots with a gun and lost.

Not that it's any of your business, but the reason I don't wear socks is because I have chronic pain from arthritis in my feet and socks with shoes makes the pain much worse. I go barefoot when I'm in the house. I used to wear socks prior to having this problem. My feet are super sensitive. Of course, this has nothing to do with the case we are discussing, but there are reasons why people don't wear socks or certain types of shoes. I've been doing this for over 20 years. The shoes that I wear when I exercise are over 10 years old and they are still in decent condition. I have not been able to find any other shoes that are comfortable. So, it's pretty silly to remark about whether or not the victim in this case was wearing socks. It has nothing to do with what happened on that day, and we have no idea why Mr. Arbery was or wasn't wearing socks. It's just a desperate attempt by the defense attorney to demonize the victim, imo.

I would assume that the victim in this case was simply running to get away from what appeared to be a dangerous threat, which was apparently true, since he was shot and killed by the assholes that chased him down. One doesn't need an excuse to run through a neighborhood. People jog or run through my neighborhood all the time, and nobody cares if they are Black or White, or if they live on my street. There are no rules in the. US that say that one can't run through a neighborhood where they don't live.

Anyway.....The judge just finished giving instructions to the jury and they will begin to consider the verdict. I had to laugh when the judge said that they must be totally objective. I don't think it's possible for anyone to be totally objective when considering something as complicated as this case. Most of us have already made up our minds so none of us would be good jurors, assuming there is such a thing.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Suppose he should have just let himself get lynched.

No, he should have stopped fooling anybody by pretending to be a jogger and really tried to escape or better did what people with guns told him to do.

They were chasing him in a truck. He wasn't jogging, he was running away... but Usain Bolt can't outrun a truck. I'm surprised no one asked whether he was wearing underwear. This is bullshit victim blaming. In the victim's eyes, he is being surrounded and trapped like an animal and then one of the trappers gets a gun. What in the fuck was he supposed to be thinking, supposed to do?

And justice is so fucked up down there, that I hope he was out while bleeding to death when the cop came and consoled the motherfucker that killed the guy.

 

[barbos]

but there are reasons why people don't wear socks or certain types of shoes

There are all kind of convoluted reasons for all kind of weird stuff.
Some people like pointing toy guns at the police.
Does not really make you less dead when you get shot as a result of you behaving weird.

 

[barbos]

Suppose he should have just let himself get lynched.

No, he should have stopped fooling anybody by pretending to be a jogger and really tried to escape or better did what people with guns told him to do.

They were chasing him in a truck. He wasn't jogging, he was running away... but Usain Bolt can't outrun a truck. I'm surprised no one asked whether he was wearing underwear. This is bullshit victim blaming. In the victim's eyes, he is being surrounded and trapped like an animal and then one of the trappers gets a gun. What in the fuck was he supposed to be thinking, supposed to do?

And justice is so fucked up down there, that I hope he was out while bleeding to death when the cop came and consoled the motherfucker that killed the guy.

Nope, it was not running away. It was a very good imitation of jogging.