Black Jogger Gunned Down In The Street

[Gospel]

No, the immediate reason is someone chose to shoot him unecessarily multiple times.

Yes, because Ahmaud choose to wrestle their gun from them.
Look, prosecutors did a great job and defense did a horrible job and jury was influenced by public opinion.
I find it weird how much of it depends on lawyers and public opinion.

No, it was a straightforward application of the law as written. There was pretty much no way not to convict for felony murder once it was established that their claim of citizen's arrest was not going to hold up.

So logic is: They did not claim citizen's arrest therefore it was lynching?

Or a botched kidnapping.

Armed thugs sometimes kidnap people. If anyone dies over the course of their committing the crime or as a result of it, it's felony murder.

Again, Arbery knew why they were after him.

Let's humor this. If Arebry knew why they were after him, how exactly would that have impacted the defense's case? The most Arebry did was trespass which was a civil, not criminal offense. From Arebry's perspective, three armed and angry white men chasing him for just looking at an empty house would have been a good reason to run anyway. And when one of those angry white men brandished a shotgun after cornering you with their trucks going for the gun (since he was so close) would still have been reasonable.

 

[barbos]

Let's humor this. If Arebry knew why they were after him, how exactly would that have impacted the defense's case?

That's not a relevant question. I think defense did imply that he essentially knew why would these people be after him.

Better question is, what if 3 idiots actually saw him trespassing?
It would not change the fate of Arbery, but it would affect the prosecution.

And what if they did not see him but simply told him that it was citizen's arrest?
Would it have changed the outcome? I bet Arbery would still be dead but prosecution would have had a harder time.

My point is, these idiots could have done everything right and Arbery would still be dead.

Prosecution depended on these 3 idiots not actually seeing Arbery tresspassing with their own eyes and not saying "Citizen's arrest". That's pretty weak.

 

[southernhybrid]

Has anyone even bothered to mention that the 3 White jerks never even tried to use the, "we were only trying to make a citizen's arrest" claim until after they were arrested, which was months after they killed Mr. Arbery. I don't think they were trying to make a citizen's arrest. They were trying to scare and then murdered a man simply because he was a Black man running in a White neighborhood. It's obvious to most sane people that this was a murder, inspired by racism.

 

[barbos]

Has anyone even bothered to mention that the 3 White jerks never even tried to use the, "we were only trying to make a citizen's arrest" claim until after they were arrested, which was months after they killed Mr. Arbery. I don't think they were trying to make a citizen's arrest. They were trying to scare and then murdered a man simply because he was a Black man running in a White neighborhood. It's obvious to most sane people that this was a murder, inspired by racism.

Yes it was mentioned by prosecutor. I don't buy it. When you say "Stop or I blow your *** head off" it means you would not blow **** head off if I stop. That's 90% of citizen's arrest in my book.

Otherwise "citizen's arrest" would be a magic word which anyone can use to stop anyone, that's not how it works in real life. Arbery is on record ignoring policeman's command on 2 separate occasions.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Has anyone even bothered to mention that the 3 White jerks never even tried to use the, "we were only trying to make a citizen's arrest" claim until after they were arrested, which was months after they killed Mr. Arbery. I don't think they were trying to make a citizen's arrest. They were trying to scare and then murdered a man simply because he was a Black man running in a White neighborhood.

I don't think that is accurate. I think it was demonstrated that they tried to scare and potentially wanted to kill a black guy that they assumed was a thief (because he was black) because they wanted to put the 'thug' in his place. A redo of Zimmerman.

And they almost didn't even go to trial despite the presence of video evidence of the killing, which I find to be even more disturbing.

 

[barbos]

A redo of Zimmerman

Zimmerman's lawyer who is a regular contributor on CNN disagreed saying Zimmerman was innocent

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Has anyone even bothered to mention that the 3 White jerks never even tried to use the, "we were only trying to make a citizen's arrest" claim until after they were arrested, which was months after they killed Mr. Arbery. I don't think they were trying to make a citizen's arrest. They were trying to scare and then murdered a man simply because he was a Black man running in a White neighborhood. It's obvious to most sane people that this was a murder, inspired by racism.

Yes it was mentioned by prosecutor. I don't buy it. When you say "Stop or I blow your *** head off" it means you would not blow **** head off if I stop. That's 90% of citizen's arrest in my book.

If this were two black men chasing a white guy, saying the exact same thing, and then a third black guy helps corner the white guy, we aren't talking about how the white guy should cede to the demands of the armed black men.

Otherwise "citizen's arrest" would be a magic word which anyone can use to stop anyone, that's not how it works in real life. Arbery is on record ignoring policeman's command on 2 separate occasions.

The key here is that the accused... I mean convicted, were convicted of illegally detaining him. So Arbery would have been right to think that those guys were not doing anything legal and wasn't obligated to obey them like a good boy. Your argument is if Arbery just obeyed to being illegally detained, he wouldn't have been killed. We don't know that. After all, the convicted party was who put a gun into the situation to begin with. And quite unnecessarily.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

A redo of Zimmerman

Zimmerman's lawyer who is a regular contributor on CNN disagreed saying Zimmerman was innocent

As a reminder, Zimmerman killed Martin, that isn't in doubt.

Regarding my point, both cases involved parties inserting themselves in to a police situation, because them bad people keep getting away with it. And then violence ensued, and someone is killed by the party that never should have gotten directly involved in the first place.

 

[barbos]

If this were two black men chasing a white guy, saying the exact same thing, and then a third black guy helps corner the white guy, we aren't talking about how the white guy should cede to the demands of the armed black men.

You forgot to mention that white guy just stole drugs from them.

The key here is that the accused... I mean convicted, were convicted of illegally detaining him. So Arbery would have been right to think that those guys were not doing anything legal and wasn't obligated to obey them like a good boy. Your argument is if Arbery just obeyed to being illegally detained

From a point of view of Arbery these 3 idiots were legally detaining him.
And even from a point of view of court illegality is not that obvious.
It rests on the fact that they did not see him trespassing with their own eyes. That's pretty weak offence. Someone saw him and told them, they trusted him and in the end they chased the RIGHT guy.

 

[Gospel]

Better question is, what if 3 idiots actually saw him trespassing?
It would not change the fate of Arbery, but it would affect the prosecution.

Trespassing is not a felony, it's a misdemeanor. They created the situation (VIA their actions during your alleged citizen's arrest attempt) which lead to Arbery's death. It would have had little to no effect on the prosecution because it would have still been considered not only an accessive use of force but also an unjustified force. The why's and hows of it being excessive and unjustified would bring us right back to what we have now, felony murder charges.

And what if they did not see him but simply told him that it was citizen's arrest?
Would it have changed the outcome? I bet Arbery would still be dead but prosecution would have had a harder time.

Again trespassing is not a felony, it's a misdemeanor. They managed to not keep that in mind when going for your alleged citizen's arrest in the manner in which they did. Their excessive show & use of force became a felony which created a situation where Arbery was justified in defending himself. As such the prosecution would have had the same strong case because Arbery was not a threat to any of the three idiots.

My point is, these idiots could have done everything right and Arbery would still be dead.

If these idiots didn't introduce guns to the situation Arbery wouldn't be dead. And doing everything right doesn't include actually making the citizens arrest. Sometimes letting people go is the right thing to do.

Prosecution depended on these 3 idiots not actually seeing Arbery tresspassing with their own eyes and not saying "Citizen's arrest". That's pretty weak.

Oh, now the law is weak?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If this were two black men chasing a white guy, saying the exact same thing, and then a third black guy helps corner the white guy, we aren't talking about how the white guy should cede to the demands of the armed black men.

You forgot to mention that white guy just stole drugs from them.

The key here is that the accused... I mean convicted, were convicted of illegally detaining him. So Arbery would have been right to think that those guys were not doing anything legal and wasn't obligated to obey them like a good boy. Your argument is if Arbery just obeyed to being illegally detained

From a point of view of Arbery these 3 idiots were legally detaining him.
And even from a point of view of court illegality is not that obvious.
It rests on the fact that they did not see him trespassing with their own eyes. That's pretty weak offence. Someone saw him and told them, they trusted him and in the end they chased the RIGHT guy.

Trespassing isn't a felony. He needed to be committing a felony for this to be potentially a legal arrest! The state doesn't want people arresting other people over misdemeanors! If you want to discuss this, please get some of the critical issues correct.

This "arrest" was so illegal, the state legislature modified the law to make certain no one could "mistake" this as being legal in the future.

 

[Gospel]

I wonder if Barbos would have expected a 25-year-old white man who after knowingly committed a misdemeanor at a construction site to stop and talk to three angry & armed black men in two trucks aggressively chasing him down.

 

[barbos]

Trespassing is not a felony, it's a misdemeanor

Does not matter.

Again trespassing is not a felony, it's a misdemeanor.

Again, does not matter. Especially to Arbery who started a fight with police over literally nothing.
And you really think he even knew the difference?

Trespassing isn't a felony. He needed to be committing a felony for this to be potentially a legal arrest!

Stealing is a felony. There were some stealing there, so checking anyone who is trespassing is a first step toward solving problem of stealing.
And again these people don't know the difference and don't care. If they knew they would have been making money as lawyers.

 

[barbos]

I wonder if Barbos would have expected a 25-year-old white man who after knowingly committed a misdemeanor at a construction site to stop and talk to three angry & armed black men in two trucks aggressively chasing him down.

I wonder if you think individual with IQ<70 even knows such words as misdemeanor.

 

[Gospel]

Stealing is a felony. There were some stealing there, so checking anyone who is trespassing is a first step toward solving problem of stealing.

It's too bad for the three angry white men that the law requires they witness the theft by said individual.

 

[barbos]

Stealing is a felony. There were some stealing there, so checking anyone who is trespassing is a first step toward solving problem of stealing.

It's too bad for the three angry white men that the law requires they witness the theft by said individual.

It does not even matter to me.
You have some petty theft one day. Then few days later you see someone trespassing the same site you would want at least talk and ask a name.
I am sorry, but this tragedy is more complicated than racists lynching an innocent black jogger.

Seriously what the fuck Arbery was doing walking around that house multiple times at night?
And no, I am not claiming he stole anything.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Trespassing is not a felony, it's a misdemeanor

Does not matter.

Again trespassing is not a felony, it's a misdemeanor.

Again, does not matter. Especially to Arbery who started a fight with police over literally nothing.
And you really think he even knew the difference?

Trespassing isn't a felony. He needed to be committing a felony for this to be potentially a legal arrest!

Stealing is a felony. There were some stealing there, so checking anyone who is trespassing is a first step toward solving problem of stealing.
And again these people don't know the difference and don't care. If they knew they would have been making money as lawyers.

1) Theft isn't necessarily a felony.
2) There was no known theft ever at this construction site.
3) They had no legal right to check, especially for theft that hadn't ever occurred there.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Stealing is a felony. There were some stealing there, so checking anyone who is trespassing is a first step toward solving problem of stealing.

It's too bad for the three angry white men that the law requires they witness the theft by said individual.

It does not even matter to me.
You have some petty theft one day. Then few days later you see someone trespassing the same site you would want at least talk and ask a name.
I am sorry, but this tragedy is more complicated than racists lynching an innocent black jogger.

Correct. There was also the attempt to cover up the killings.

Seriously what the fuck Arbery was doing walking around that house multiple times at night?
And no, I am not claiming he stole anything.

Was there even evidence that Arbery was there before at night? Also, if you aren't accusing him of stealing, the crime he'd be committing (if he was there at night) would again be trespassing.

 

[barbos]

1) Theft isn't necessarily a felony.

I told you already does not fucking matter, nobody is a fucking lawyer here.

There was no known theft ever at this construction site.

Does not fucking matter, what matters what these 3 idiots believed at the time.

They had no legal right to check, especially for theft that hadn't ever occurred there.

Again, nobody has a law degree here.

 

[barbos]

Correct. There was also the attempt to cover up the killings.

That's debatable. There were 2 prosecutors who refused to prosecute it after watching the video. One of them was an acquaintant/friend of the idiots.

Was there even evidence that Arbery was there before at night?

Yeeeeeeees. There is a video of him walking in the house at night. And also during a day.