Black Jogger Gunned Down In The Street

[Toni]

You said. "Chased" in English either means a particular form of shaping things, or for someone or something to be in pursuit of something else which is moving away from the first party. For you and someone else to be the parties of a "chase" you would be "running away".

I was walking (away) and did not know I was being chased. I was wearing headphones and could not hear. So when the guy with a gun finally stopped me I did not try to run or take his gun.

How is this situation even remotely similar to the murder of Mr Arbery? It is not, and you don't need to be especially smart to recognize that. I think you are saying these incredibly stupid things to provoke a reaction, for the shits and giggles, not because you actually believe in them.

You honestly believe that these 3 idiots would have shot him regardless?
Are you insane?

I think there is at least a 50/50 chance that they would have shot him, or beaten/kicked him to death or just decided to drag him behind their truck for a while. Assuming that they or someone actually call the police and Arbery was still alive, I think there's at most a 50/50 percent chance that the police would not have caused his death. I write this because initially, their sympathy was completely with the 3 assailants and they did not even attempt to render aid to Arbery who was still alive when they arrived.

Why do I think this? Well, I'm an American and after I became an adult, I was forced to realize exactly how dangerous it is to be black in America. I read, I observe, I listen: I see lots of threats of violence at the hands of white people directed at black people for...walking through the wrong neighborhood, for selling lemonade, going to church, trying to open the locked door of their own home, sitting in their own apartment, watching television, sleeping in their own beds, playing on a playground, walking home from a convenience store and much, much more.

 

[Keith&Co.]

You actually believe that Arbery wasn't being attacked by a guy with a gun?

Yes, I think that and yes, I am serious.
Yes, that's how citizen's arrests usually looks like, well, right until the part with shooting.
Certainly in the western movies.

It's not how it looked on the Andy Griffith Show, when Gomer arrested Deputy Fife. I guess the real question will be how this incident is portrayed in the TV movie yet to come. Depends on if the defendants are played by Kevin Sorbo, Jim Caviezel, and Hartley Sawyer or by Patton Oswalt, Zach Galifianakis, and Wayne Knight. Then we'll know what happened.

 

[Keith&Co.]

False arrest, eh? Then explain to me why did they remove citizen's arrest from the book after that?

Because the law they were tried under had specific requirements to qualify a citizens arrest. They failed to meet those, which is no suprrise as the law had absolutely nothing to do with the events of that evening. It only came up much later when they were arrested and needed some sort of justification for their actions.
The State of Georgia realized that this law is very ripe for abuse, what with people hearing the term and thinking of old Westerns, without knowing Sweet Fanny Adams about the actual law. It'll probably be a campaign issue for several candidates in the coming years in their own states, overhauling or repealing.

 

[TSwizzle]

You honestly believe that these 3 idiots would have shot him regardless?
Are you insane?

I don't think it matters what people on here think about the situation. You need to try to view it what Arbery thinks about the situation. Did Arbery think these idiots were going to shoot him? We can't ever know for sure but I suspect he thought no such thing. Which is why he lunged at the guy with the gun and tried to grab the gun. That's where it all went tragically wrong.

 

[Gospel]

By the way, when was the last time citizen's arrest was successfully and usefully executed?

If you're only talking about the Citizen's arrest and not whether or not the perp was prosecuted, a plethora of times. There are even many cases of a citizen's arrest happening while an officer is on the scene (AKA aiding an officer in an arrest). What sets the successful ones apart from these three murderers' attempts at it is they all witnessed firsthand or had a first-hand witness to a felony.

Here is a good one.

Owner holds teen car burglar at gunpoint until officers arrive, police say

Police arrested a teen accused of breaking into cars after they say one of his victims held the teen suspect at gunpoint until law enforcement arrived.

www.fox5atlanta.com

I wouldn't recommend approaching a thief as it is very dangerous but if you do, make sure you remain within the law. These gentlemen did the right thing because they actually witnessed a felony firsthand. And they get a bonus (from me personally) because the perp didn't end up dead. But I tell you what, if the perp tried something and got popped as a result they would have had a good self-defense case since it would have been extremely hard to prove it wasn't.


FYI - Any security at an establishment that holds someone until officers arrived is considered a citizens arrest.

 

[Gospel]

I don't think it matters what people on here think about the situation. You need to try to view it what Arbery thinks about the situation. Did Arbery think these idiots were going to shoot him? We can't ever know for sure but I suspect he thought no such thing. Which is why he lunged at the guy with the gun and tried to grab the gun. That's where it all went tragically wrong.

I don't think it matters what
he was thinking
why he was running
there was neither a threat
nor felony to throw a gun in

I just wrote a poem.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I don't think it matters what people on here think about the situation. You need to try to view it what Arbery thinks about the situation. Did Arbery think these idiots were going to shoot him? We can't ever know for sure but I suspect he thought no such thing. Which is why he lunged at the guy with the gun and tried to grab the gun.

Your conclusion is illogical. If he thought he wasn't going to be shot, the most efficient, rational thing to do would be to keep running, to climb over the vehicles and get out of there since no one would shoot him while he was doing that (your claim). On the other hand, if he thought no one would shoot him and he could grab the gun, then that is needlessly wasteful with his time and creates criminal and survival risk of accidental death(s). Therefore, he most likely thought he was going to be shot.

 

[atrib]

You honestly believe that these 3 idiots would have shot him regardless?
Are you insane?

I don't think it matters what people on here think about the situation. You need to try to view it what Arbery thinks about the situation. Did Arbery think these idiots were going to shoot him? We can't ever know for sure but I suspect he thought no such thing. Which is why he lunged at the guy with the gun and tried to grab the gun. That's where it all went tragically wrong.

Arbery tried to run away from his attackers and their continued assaults using the trucks for over 5 minutes. He only tried to defend himself when he was cornered with a gun pointed at him at close quarters. He had no choice in the matter at that point because his assailants had put him into that position.

Note that the assailants were not on the phone with 911 at any point during the chase. Travis was driving and his father didn't even have his cellphone on him. They had no intention of letting the police deal with the matter, they were there to hand out their version of justice. Travis would not have pointed his gun at Arbery if he was not prepared to shoot him. First thing you learn in firearms safety training : "Never point your gun at someone you are not willing to shoot".

 

[TSwizzle]

Arbery tried to run away from his attackers and their continued assaults using the trucks for over 5 minutes.

Run away? It looked to me like Arbery ran towards the pickup truck which was in front of him. Running away would be the opposite direction I would have thought.

He only tried to defend himself when he was cornered with a gun pointed at him at close quarters. He had no choice in the matter at that point because his assailants had put him into that position.

No choice but to lunge at an armed person? Wouldn't be my choice but ok.

 

[Gospel]

Running away would be the opposite direction I would have thought.

Do you mean towards the person recording the video?

 

[TSwizzle]

Running away would be the opposite direction I would have thought.

Do you mean towards the person recording the video?

Let me think about that, run towards the guys with guns or towards the guy with a camera.

 

[Gospel]

I bet if he wasn't rich in melanin, mistaking a cell phone recording him for a gun would have been brought up in his defense.

 

[Gospel]

That's called prediction.

 

[Gospel]

Anyway if you go back and watch the video again when the camera veers off to the right before Arbery rounds the white truck on the passenger side you can hear racking. And that's not from anyone in view of the Camera.

 

[Toni]

You honestly believe that these 3 idiots would have shot him regardless?
Are you insane?

I don't think it matters what people on here think about the situation. You need to try to view it what Arbery thinks about the situation. Did Arbery think these idiots were going to shoot him? We can't ever know for sure but I suspect he thought no such thing. Which is why he lunged at the guy with the gun and tried to grab the gun. That's where it all went tragically wrong.

Really? If I were in Arbery's shoes, me, an old white woman, I would have assumed they were about to shoot me dead. A young black man? Of course he assumed he was about to be killed because he wasn't stupid and because I'm pretty sure he's much more aware than I am of the dangers young black men face on the streets of this country.

If Arbery grabbed for the gun, it was surely an act of desperation, his only chance to perhaps not be shot dead.

Would you have made the same choice? Probably not, given what you've written. But I well might have done so. I figured out long ago that my instincts are definitely fight, not flight. I spent a good part of my life fighting against my instincts to fight back and only have done so when under genuine imminent danger. Otherwise, I force myself to retreat. Read that again: for me, retreat is not my instinct but I FORCE myself to do so. Of course, I've never had a gun pointed at me or been chased down by 3 fat old rednecks who wanted to prove their manhood.

 

[TSwizzle]

Really? If I were in Arbery's shoes, me, an old white woman, I would have assumed they were about to shoot me dead.

That's not relevant but ok.

A young black man? Of course he assumed he was about to be killed because he wasn't stupid and because I'm pretty sure he's much more aware than I am of the dangers young black men face on the streets of this country.

I would say that running towards people brandishing guns is not the smartest of moves. I'm starting to wonder if this young man was suicidal. The old suicide by cop routine.

If Arbery grabbed for the gun, it was surely an act of desperation, his only chance to perhaps not be shot dead.

If he grabbed for the gun? Did you not watch the video?

 

[atrib]

Arbery tried to run away from his attackers and their continued assaults using the trucks for over 5 minutes.

Run away? It looked to me like Arbery ran towards the pickup truck which was in front of him. Running away would be the opposite direction I would have thought.

Arbery was boxed in by the two pickup trucks, one from behind driven by Roddie (who shot the video you saw), and the one in front driven by Travis. When he was first confronted by Travis, he turned around and ran back. But he was stopped by the second truck behind him driven by Roddie, who turned him around (by repeatedly trying to run him over) and forced him to run back towards the white truck, and Travis with a shotgun. In the words of Greg McMichael, one of the convicted murderers: "He was cornered like a rat". And this was near the end of about 5 minutes of continuous pursuit by both trucks.

 

[atrib]

Really? If I were in Arbery's shoes, me, an old white woman, I would have assumed they were about to shoot me dead.

That's not relevant but ok.

A young black man? Of course he assumed he was about to be killed because he wasn't stupid and because I'm pretty sure he's much more aware than I am of the dangers young black men face on the streets of this country.

I would say that running towards people brandishing guns is not the smartest of moves. I'm starting to wonder if this young man was suicidal. The old suicide by cop routine.

If Arbery grabbed for the gun, it was surely an act of desperation, his only chance to perhaps not be shot dead.

If he grabbed for the gun? Did you not watch the video?

Why would he have run away from his attackers for 5 minutes if he were suicidal? Do you know what happened prior to him being shot?

 

[TSwizzle]

Arbery was boxed in by the two pickup trucks, one from behind driven by Roddie (who shot the video you saw), and the one in front driven by Travis.

No he wasn't boxed in. He could have gone to his left or to his right where vehicles would not have been able to follow him.

 

[Toni]

Really? If I were in Arbery's shoes, me, an old white woman, I would have assumed they were about to shoot me dead.

That's not relevant but ok.

A young black man? Of course he assumed he was about to be killed because he wasn't stupid and because I'm pretty sure he's much more aware than I am of the dangers young black men face on the streets of this country.

I would say that running towards people brandishing guns is not the smartest of moves. I'm starting to wonder if this young man was suicidal. The old suicide by cop routine.

If Arbery grabbed for the gun, it was surely an act of desperation, his only chance to perhaps not be shot dead.

If he grabbed for the gun? Did you not watch the video?

What a cop out--- the old white man's claim that the black man was committing suicide by cop--even when they aren't cops and had been chasing him down a street, armed and in trucks.