Black Jogger Gunned Down In The Street

[TomC]

almost certainly meant you were where you weren't supposed to be.

Arbery wasn't a child. And if he knew much about the neighborhood he'd have known that it was on edge because of crime. Sorry, I'm confident he was planning a crime. But it doesn't matter to me. What he did is on him. What they did is on them.

What makes this debacle particularly pathetic is that the McMichaels could probably have gotten off if things had been handled differently from the get go. With his connections and support from a few neighbors, a proficient lawyer could probably have cut a deal for some minor crime like negligence or something. A couple years probation, can't possess a firearm while on probation, something like that. No jail time at all.
Heck, some lawyer would probably have done it for cheap to get in good with law enforcement officials. Who knows.
Tom

 

[Elixir]

Poor McMichaels & Bryan! Not only were they wrongly convicted of murder after trying to uphold their god-given right to kill nigras, they are apparently bereft of supporters even in this forum, other than one misguided Russian with no clue about American racism, trying to impose his uninformed views upon those who know better.
Sucks to be them, I guess.
Oh well… maybe Putin’s Boy will “win” again in ‘24 and pardon them all.

He only pardons people with celebrity backing.

May he’d listen to Barbos? I bet B speaks English with T’s favorite accent.

 

[Toni]

almost certainly meant you were where you weren't supposed to be.

Arbery wasn't a child. And if he knew much about the neighborhood he'd have known that it was on edge because of crime. Sorry, I'm confident he was planning a crime. But it doesn't matter to me. What he did is on him. What they did is on them.

What makes this debacle particularly pathetic is that the McMichaels could probably have gotten off if things had been handled differently from the get go. With his connections and support from a few neighbors, a proficient lawyer could probably have cut a deal for some minor crime like negligence or something. A couple years probation, can't possess a firearm while on probation, something like that. No jail time at all.
Heck, some lawyer would probably have done it for cheap to get in good with law enforcement officials. Who knows.
Tom

Of course you're confident Arbery was planning a crime.

I wonder why that is.

And of course, a competent lawyer could have convinced the jury that it was perfectly fine or maybe just a tiny bit bad to chase down a man with vehicles and point guns at him and shoot him in the streets because that was no kind of threat to anyone except the man who was killed and what does he matter? He was obviously planning a crime because.....I dunno. Why would we know that? Is there something in his appearance that made him look like he was planning a crime? What could that possibly be?

 

[TSwizzle]

What should he have done?

Not run towards the guys with the guns but run away from the guys with the guns. He could certainly have run off the road, to the side, over the ditches, called for help.

Round and round we go in circles. Mr Arbery had been trying to run away from his assailants for over 5 minutes. He was not carrying a cellphone, so he couldn't have called for help. Mr Arbery had tried to go around the white truck just before he was shot, but Travis McMichael, who was out of his truck and on the road cut him off. Up until the last few seconds of the encounter, Arbery was trying to run away, but the aggressors had him cornered.

Did you even watch the video? Arbery clearly runs towards the stationary truck. He keeps on running towards the truck despite alternatives. He could easily run off the road, across the ditches where trucks can't follow. This is not the actions of someone "running for their life". Then Arbery, jinks round the truck and stupidly lunges at the guy with the gun. That was dumb and those things got Arbery killed.

 

[TomC]

Of course you're confident Arbery was planning a crime.

I wonder why that is.

I've explained why, in this thread. Including the post you quoted.

I understand that you're trying to make this about racism. But it's not, at least not to me. The McMichaels I'm not so sure, probably it was a big part of their motivations. I'm also confident that their behavior would have been at least a little different had a white guy done whatever Arbery did. The guy probably wouldn't have wound up dead. Who knows, maybe he would have.
Tom

 

[Toni]

Of course you're confident Arbery was planning a crime.

I wonder why that is.

I've explained why, in this thread. Including the post you quoted.

I understand that you're trying to make this about racism. But it's not, at least not to me. The McMichaels I'm not so sure, probably it was a big part of their motivations. I'm also confident that their behavior would have been at least a little different had a white guy done whatever Arbery did. The guy probably wouldn't have wound up dead. Who knows, maybe he would have.
Tom

I kind of missed that part where about what made you certain that Arbrey wasn't planning a crime. Was it the part about him not being a child? The part about him maybe not being familiar enough with the neighborhood to realize the neighborhood was 'on edge because of crime?' I don't remember reading that part in any news accounts.

Are you saying that Arbery was a threat because he wasn't a child? Or because he wasn't that familiar with that neighborhood? Are you saying that adults cannot walk or jog through neighborhoods where they don't live?

 

[Toni]

They boxed him in. And had guns. Not sure where he was supposed to run with a gun aimed at him.

But Arbery wasn't boxed in and didn't have a gun aimed at him. He ran towards the guys with guns who were in a truck at least 100 yards ahead of him. Did you not watch the video? There were alternatives available.

Or do you think McMasters would have balked at shooting him in the back. I don't.

They probably wouldn't have shot Arbery. It was only when Arbery grabbed the gun did the shooting start.

And it isn’t rape if she doesn’t fight back.

Just wanted to clarify because there is no sarcasm font: My statement was definitely sarcastic.

 

[TomC]

Of course you're confident Arbery was planning a crime.

I wonder why that is.

I've explained why, in this thread. Including the post you quoted.

I understand that you're trying to make this about racism. But it's not, at least not to me. The McMichaels I'm not so sure, probably it was a big part of their motivations. I'm also confident that their behavior would have been at least a little different had a white guy done whatever Arbery did. The guy probably wouldn't have wound up dead. Who knows, maybe he would have.
Tom

I kind of missed that part where about what made you certain that Arbrey wasn't planning a crime. Was it the part about him not being a child? The part about him maybe not being familiar enough with the neighborhood to realize the neighborhood was 'on edge because of crime?' I don't remember reading that part in any news accounts.

Are you saying that Arbery was a threat because he wasn't a child? Or because he wasn't that familiar with that neighborhood? Are you saying that adults cannot walk or jog through neighborhoods where they don't live?

Dang, that's a remarkable army of strawmen.

I seriously resent all the vague accusations you throw at me. In this case, it's racism. But you never quite say why you think I'm a racist.
Tom

 

[Toni]

Of course you're confident Arbery was planning a crime.

I wonder why that is.

I've explained why, in this thread. Including the post you quoted.

I understand that you're trying to make this about racism. But it's not, at least not to me. The McMichaels I'm not so sure, probably it was a big part of their motivations. I'm also confident that their behavior would have been at least a little different had a white guy done whatever Arbery did. The guy probably wouldn't have wound up dead. Who knows, maybe he would have.
Tom

I kind of missed that part where about what made you certain that Arbrey wasn't planning a crime. Was it the part about him not being a child? The part about him maybe not being familiar enough with the neighborhood to realize the neighborhood was 'on edge because of crime?' I don't remember reading that part in any news accounts.

Are you saying that Arbery was a threat because he wasn't a child? Or because he wasn't that familiar with that neighborhood? Are you saying that adults cannot walk or jog through neighborhoods where they don't live?

Dang, that's a remarkable army of strawmen.

I seriously resent all the vague accusations you throw at me. In this case, it's racism. But you never quite say why you think I'm a racist.
Tom

I genuinely did not read that post as you being clear about exactly why you thought Arbery was planning a crime. I would not have remarked upon it but you specifically did say that you were clear about why you thought he was planning a crime. Perhaps I'm just not very smart. Perhaps it's just easy to misunderstand things over the internet. I just wrote a short post clarifying a previous post because it really isn't easy apparently to discern extreme sarcasm over the internet. Perhaps you could be more clear? I really do want to understand what you write.

 

[ZiprHead]

Of course you're confident Arbery was planning a crime.

I wonder why that is.

I've explained why, in this thread. Including the post you quoted.

I understand that you're trying to make this about racism. But it's not, at least not to me. The McMichaels I'm not so sure, probably it was a big part of their motivations. I'm also confident that their behavior would have been at least a little different had a white guy done whatever Arbery did. The guy probably wouldn't have wound up dead. Who knows, maybe he would have.
Tom

I kind of missed that part where about what made you certain that Arbrey wasn't planning a crime. Was it the part about him not being a child? The part about him maybe not being familiar enough with the neighborhood to realize the neighborhood was 'on edge because of crime?' I don't remember reading that part in any news accounts.

Are you saying that Arbery was a threat because he wasn't a child? Or because he wasn't that familiar with that neighborhood? Are you saying that adults cannot walk or jog through neighborhoods where they don't live?

Dang, that's a remarkable army of strawmen.

I seriously resent all the vague accusations you throw at me. In this case, it's racism. But you never quite say why you think I'm a racist.
Tom

How can it be a strawman? Toni used your own words.

 

[Gospel]

Did you even watch the video? Arbery clearly runs towards the stationary truck. He keeps on running towards the truck despite alternatives. He could easily run off the road, across the ditches where trucks can't follow. This is not the actions of someone "running for their life". Then Arbery, jinks round the truck and stupidly lunges at the guy with the gun. That was dumb and those things got Arbery killed.

Maybe he was trying to run home and wasn't familiar with the rest of the neighborhood. Maybe he figured getting lost in a (perceived) hostile neighborhood was a bad idea and the direction he was heading was the only or closest way out.

Edit: Even after getting shot he tried heading in the same direction

 

[Loren Pechtel]

He only tried to defend himself when he was cornered with a gun pointed at him at close quarters. He had no choice in the matter at that point because his assailants had put him into that position.

No choice but to lunge at an armed person? Wouldn't be my choice but ok.

It's basically a hail mary play. They had already demonstrated a willingness to use lethal force, he had no reason to expect surrender to lead to survival.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Just wanted to clarify because there is no sarcasm font: My statement was definitely sarcastic.

Toni doesn't know that ThErE iS a SaRcaSM fOnT.

 

[Gospel]

Arbery has shown he could be a dick, see the video of his confrontation with police.

You've shown you could be a dick on this forum but I'll be damned if that's enough for me to be ok with you being gunned down in the street over an imaginary burglary the way Arbery was.

 

[atrib]

So logic is: They did not claim citizen's arrest therefore it was lynching?
there is nothing in between?

Note that trying to run someone down with a vehicle is considered lethal force. They were trying to kill him before the guns were involved.

I am still waiting for a proof that they were trying to run him down.

This is the prosecution summary. The full statement of Roddie Bryan was entered into evidence by one of the GBI investigators on Day 2(?). You will have to find it, because I am not watching it all again. Or you can download the PDF transcripts and search there with keywords.

"I missed him" referring to the first assault.
"I wish I had hit him".
"I backed up at him".
"I angled at him again".
Roddie is telling us, in his own words, that he was trying to hit Arbery with his truck. And that he regretted not succeeding in his efforts.

 

[TomC]

Of course you're confident Arbery was planning a crime.

I wonder why that is.

I've explained why, in this thread. Including the post you quoted.

I understand that you're trying to make this about racism. But it's not, at least not to me. The McMichaels I'm not so sure, probably it was a big part of their motivations. I'm also confident that their behavior would have been at least a little different had a white guy done whatever Arbery did. The guy probably wouldn't have wound up dead. Who knows, maybe he would have.
Tom

I kind of missed that part where about what made you certain that Arbrey wasn't planning a crime. Was it the part about him not being a child? The part about him maybe not being familiar enough with the neighborhood to realize the neighborhood was 'on edge because of crime?' I don't remember reading that part in any news accounts.

Are you saying that Arbery was a threat because he wasn't a child? Or because he wasn't that familiar with that neighborhood? Are you saying that adults cannot walk or jog through neighborhoods where they don't live?

Dang, that's a remarkable army of strawmen.

I seriously resent all the vague accusations you throw at me. In this case, it's racism. But you never quite say why you think I'm a racist.
Tom

How can it be a strawman? Toni used your own words.

You just used the word "strawman". If I use the word to describe this post I'm just using your own words.
Amirite?
Tom

 

[atrib]

And they were convicted of a false arrest, so your continual fallback on that is a red herring. He was unlawfully detained and acted in self defense.

False arrest, eh? Then explain to me why did they remove citizen's arrest from the book after that?

They simply made it clearer that a citizen's arrest wasn't permitted in that sort of situation.

So you admit that it's not that clear.

The old citizen's arrest law was crystal clear, and the McMichael's actions were illegal. The legislature removed it out of an abundance of caution, to prevent incidents like these from happening again, allowing murderers to claim a defense.

 

[atrib]

almost certainly meant you were where you weren't supposed to be.

Arbery wasn't a child. And if he knew much about the neighborhood he'd have known that it was on edge because of crime. Sorry, I'm confident he was planning a crime. But it doesn't matter to me. What he did is on him. What they did is on them.

Arbery had visited the site 3 times. Each incident was recorded on security cameras. He never took anything, he never damaged anything. He looked around for a few minutes and then left. He had the opportunity at least 3 times, but he never availed of it to commit a crime - which would lead a logical person to conclude that he wasn't planning a crime. But you know that he was planning a crime. How odd.

What crime in the neighborhood? There was a gun stolen from Travis's truck, and he suspected a neighbor of taking it. Some items may have been taken from a boat, maybe in that neighborhood, maybe somewhere else. The owner doesn't even know when or where that stuff went missing, and he thought his subcontractors may have taken it. Where is this crime wave that you are talking about? And how is Arbery supposed to know of this "crime wave"? He had never even been trespassed from the UNSECURED construction site he occasionally stopped by to look at.

What makes this debacle particularly pathetic is that the McMichaels could probably have gotten off if things had been handled differently from the get go. With his connections and support from a few neighbors, a proficient lawyer could probably have cut a deal for some minor crime like negligence or something. A couple years probation, can't possess a firearm while on probation, something like that. No jail time at all.

The murderers were convicted by their own statements. If they hadn't made statements to the police, or recorded the shooting, the prosecution wouldn't have had a case. If Travis had been charged, he could have claimed self defense, and there would have been no evidence to prove otherwise. That is another important lesson from this event: Don't ever talk to the police, whether you are innocent or guilty. Your words will be used to convict you later in a court of law.

 

[ZiprHead]

Of course you're confident Arbery was planning a crime.

I wonder why that is.

I've explained why, in this thread. Including the post you quoted.

I understand that you're trying to make this about racism. But it's not, at least not to me. The McMichaels I'm not so sure, probably it was a big part of their motivations. I'm also confident that their behavior would have been at least a little different had a white guy done whatever Arbery did. The guy probably wouldn't have wound up dead. Who knows, maybe he would have.
Tom

I kind of missed that part where about what made you certain that Arbrey wasn't planning a crime. Was it the part about him not being a child? The part about him maybe not being familiar enough with the neighborhood to realize the neighborhood was 'on edge because of crime?' I don't remember reading that part in any news accounts.

Are you saying that Arbery was a threat because he wasn't a child? Or because he wasn't that familiar with that neighborhood? Are you saying that adults cannot walk or jog through neighborhoods where they don't live?

Dang, that's a remarkable army of strawmen.

I seriously resent all the vague accusations you throw at me. In this case, it's racism. But you never quite say why you think I'm a racist.
Tom

How can it be a strawman? Toni used your own words.

You just used the word "strawman". If I use the word to describe this post I'm just using your own words.
Amirite?
Tom

 

[TomC]

Of course you're confident Arbery was planning a crime.

I wonder why that is.

I've explained why, in this thread. Including the post you quoted.

I understand that you're trying to make this about racism. But it's not, at least not to me. The McMichaels I'm not so sure, probably it was a big part of their motivations. I'm also confident that their behavior would have been at least a little different had a white guy done whatever Arbery did. The guy probably wouldn't have wound up dead. Who knows, maybe he would have.
Tom

I kind of missed that part where about what made you certain that Arbrey wasn't planning a crime. Was it the part about him not being a child? The part about him maybe not being familiar enough with the neighborhood to realize the neighborhood was 'on edge because of crime?' I don't remember reading that part in any news accounts.

Are you saying that Arbery was a threat because he wasn't a child? Or because he wasn't that familiar with that neighborhood? Are you saying that adults cannot walk or jog through neighborhoods where they don't live?

Dang, that's a remarkable army of strawmen.

I seriously resent all the vague accusations you throw at me. In this case, it's racism. But you never quite say why you think I'm a racist.
Tom

How can it be a strawman? Toni used your own words.

You just used the word "strawman". If I use the word to describe this post I'm just using your own words.
Amirite?
Tom

Your brilliance is an inspiration to us all.
Gives me great understanding into the IIDB community.
Tom