#BlackinAmerica

[coloradoatheist]

And you think that is an acceptable explanation? Wow.

Would you have been okay with them tasing her so her shirt didn't fall off?

No. Why would anyone ask such a ridiculous question?

Yes it is the right explanation. If the cop is arresting you and you refuse they are going have to get you into the handcuffs and wrestling to do it will happen. She tried to get out of his arm hold and that move caused it to come off. The other option to subdue her would have been tasering, but that would be too drastic.

 

[laughing dog]

And you think that is an acceptable explanation? Wow.

Would you have been okay with them tasing her so her shirt didn't fall off?

No. Why would anyone ask such a ridiculous question?

Yes it is the right explanation.

For a kneejerk worshipper of police authority, it is. To a normal human being, it is not.

If the cop is arresting you and you refuse they are going have to get you into the handcuffs and wrestling to do it will happen. She tried to get out of his arm hold and that move caused it to come off. The other option to subdue her would have been tasering, but that would be too drastic.

First, in the video there is no evidence of anyone initially resisting arrest. Second, there is no reason to assume that "wrestiling" is the next necessary best option. Police in many countries are taught to de-escalate a situation, not to escalate to physical force and violence. Not in the USA - to the determinant of many civilians.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Yes it is the right explanation.

For a kneejerk worshipper of police authority, it is. To a normal human being, it is not.

If the cop is arresting you and you refuse they are going have to get you into the handcuffs and wrestling to do it will happen. She tried to get out of his arm hold and that move caused it to come off. The other option to subdue her would have been tasering, but that would be too drastic.

First, in the video there is no evidence of anyone initially resisting arrest. Second, there is no reason to assume that "wrestiling" is the next necessary best option. Police in many countries are taught to de-escalate a situation, not to escalate to physical force and violence. Not in the USA - to the determinant of many civilians.

The video starts with his arms on her right arm, trying to grab that one to place handcuffs on her. It then shows her standing with him try to put her right arm in the handcuff position, she then twists and falls to the floor where she loses her top. He was there trying to get her hands into the handcuff position. That's an arrest. She was arguing that she didn't do anything wrong, but he said no, that he heard more and it wasn't just asking for a number.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Which scenario is more likely?

I see, there is no basis.

1) Choosing the most likely scenario in the face of an unknown isn't "no basis".

2) Note that my guess was right--they had reason. Namely, that she was drunk.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

First, in the video there is no evidence of anyone initially resisting arrest. Second, there is no reason to assume that "wrestiling" is the next necessary best option. Police in many countries are taught to de-escalate a situation, not to escalate to physical force and violence. Not in the USA - to the determinant of many civilians.

Remember, that video starts in the middle. We don't see what might have come before the cops deciding to arrest her.

 

[laughing dog]

Which scenario is more likely?

I see, there is no basis.

1) Choosing the most likely scenario in the face of an unknown isn't "no basis".

Pulling what is "likely" out of your ass is the definition of no basis.

2) Note that my guess was right--they had reason. Namely, that she was drunk.

Your first "guess" was some prior history, so you were wrong.

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First, in the video there is no evidence of anyone initially resisting arrest. Second, there is no reason to assume that "wrestiling" is the next necessary best option. Police in many countries are taught to de-escalate a situation, not to escalate to physical force and violence. Not in the USA - to the determinant of many civilians.

Remember, that video starts in the middle. We don't see what might have come before the cops deciding to arrest her.

No, the video available in the link from the Daily Mail does not start in the middle. That video starts before the arrival of the police.

 

[laughing dog]

The video starts with his arms on her right arm, trying to grab that one to place handcuffs on her....

Not the one at the Daily Mail website. You do realize that your response did not address anything I actually wrote.

 

[coloradoatheist]

The video starts with his arms on her right arm, trying to grab that one to place handcuffs on her....

Not the one at the Daily Mail website. You do realize that your response did not address anything I actually wrote.

yes on the daily mail one we have 30 or so seconds of not sure what each said, but from the cell video we have him starting with his arm on her arm and she stands up and he tries to put her arm behind the back and they twist away. She appears slightly drunk on the video and with him as close as he was he would smell the alcohol on her breath. We also missed a few things the cop heard her say before the taping.

 

[laughing dog]

yes on the daily mail one we have 30 or so seconds of not sure what each said, but from the cell video we have him starting with his arm on her arm and she stands up and he tries to put her arm behind the back and they twist away. .

You think the only course of action at that point is to grab her arm and that will necessarily de-escalates the situation because...?

 

[coloradoatheist]

yes on the daily mail one we have 30 or so seconds of not sure what each said, but from the cell video we have him starting with his arm on her arm and she stands up and he tries to put her arm behind the back and they twist away. .

You think the only course of action at that point is to grab her arm and that will necessarily de-escalates the situation because...?

Police don't have to sit there and wait forever for the situation. He was trying to get her to stand up and get her out of the restaurant, she spun around and fell to the floor and then tried to finish putting cuffs on her and she kept resisting and hence they said if you keep resisting it might break or hurt the arm.

And very telling that neither one of them decided to tell the cops their side of the story when they had a chance.

 

[coloradoatheist]

I was wondering on one thing and curious from others, there is a blip of a little bit from when she is sitting down to a time she is standing. Does it appear that a bit of it was cut from editing or just the phone?

 

[laughing dog]

Police don't have to sit there and wait forever for the situation.

Equate de-escalation with waiting forever is the excluded middle fallacy.

And very telling that neither one of them decided to tell the cops their side of the story when they had a chance.

Where you an eye witness to this because that is the only way you would know that.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Police don't have to sit there and wait forever for the situation.

Equate de-escalation with waiting forever is the excluded middle fallacy.

And very telling that neither one of them decided to tell the cops their side of the story when they had a chance.

Where you an eye witness to this because that is the only way you would know that.

Huh on the second one. On the police press conference they said that both people were asked to come and tell their side. Neither did.

And for the first part, they talked for a bit, nothing came of it, they wanted her to get up and out and she fell while trying to wiggle free and her top fell off. The blame is on her and if she was my child I would demand that she apologize to everyone that night that her behavior was unacceptable.

We had a case in my town where the lady did the profanity at the restaurant employees and the community supported the business and they were talking about her getting mental help and apologizing publicly for her behavior.

 

[laughing dog]

Equate de-escalation with waiting forever is the excluded middle fallacy.

Where you an eye witness to this because that is the only way you would know that.

Huh on the second one. On the police press conference they said that both people were asked to come and tell their side. Neither did.

Oh well, that settles it, because we all know the police are incapable of misleading the public. And, of course, after one has been manhandled, one might not feel like talking.

And for the first part, they talked for a bit, nothing came of it, they wanted her to get up and out and she fell while trying to wiggle free and her top fell off.

The police were not there very long, so there was very little effort to de-escalate the situation.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

And for the first part, they talked for a bit, nothing came of it, they wanted her to get up and out and she fell while trying to wiggle free and her top fell off.

Seriously? That's like claiming a rapist's pants unzipped as he tripped and fell into his victim's vagina. It also ignores the whole threatening to break her arm. Did that also happen accidentally? Come on, seriously. Even if she caused the whole thing, which is debatable, they're still seriously wrong.

 

[coloradoatheist]

And for the first part, they talked for a bit, nothing came of it, they wanted her to get up and out and she fell while trying to wiggle free and her top fell off.

Seriously? That's like claiming a rapist's pants unzipped as he tripped and fell into his victim's vagina. It also ignores the whole threatening to break her arm. Did that also happen accidentally? Come on, seriously. Even if she caused the whole thing, which is debatable, they're still seriously wrong.

She told an employee that she was going to come back with a gun and shoot up the place.

Huh about the other part? He was trying to get her arm behind her back and used her body weight and pulled herself over with him. She was resisting the arm behind the back. And the breaking the arm wasn't a threat, it was their attempt to put her arm in cuffs from that position with her struggling in an awkward position that with their combined forces could happen. They kept trying to maneuver her into position to control her arms, a normal procedure for an arrest.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh well, that settles it, because we all know the police are incapable of misleading the public. And, of course, after one has been manhandled, one might not feel like talking.

And for the first part, they talked for a bit, nothing came of it, they wanted her to get up and out and she fell while trying to wiggle free and her top fell off.

The police were not there very long, so there was very little effort to de-escalate the situation.

Because they gain a whole lot by saying they tried to meet with them and didn't

They were trying to get her to stand and get her out of the Waffle house, a part of their job. The cops don't have to sit their and appease you.

 

[Arctish]

And very telling that neither one of them decided to tell the cops their side of the story when they had a chance.

Maybe they were at work and couldn't get the time off. Maybe they rely on public transportation and the bus schedule didn't meet their needs. Perhaps they weren't informed of the opportunity until it was too late for them to make arrangements. Perhaps they weren't properly notified. Perhaps they've been advised not to talk to the cops without a lawyer present and they couldn't find one who could meet them there at that time.

 

[coloradoatheist]

And very telling that neither one of them decided to tell the cops their side of the story when they had a chance.

Maybe they were at work and couldn't get the time off. Maybe they rely on public transportation and the bus schedule didn't meet their needs. Perhaps they weren't informed of the opportunity until it was too late for them to make arrangements. Perhaps they weren't properly notified. Perhaps they've been advised not to talk to the cops without a lawyer present and they couldn't find one who could meet them there at that time.

One scheduled the conference and didn't show, the other one didn't return calls. So we'll see. My bet is that she will plead guilty to disorderly conduct or a lower charge and do a few hours of community service and life goes on.

 

[RavenSky]

nm

 

[laughing dog]

Because they gain a whole lot by saying they tried to meet with them and didn't

Yes, the police do gain a lot by saying that. It makes them appear reasonable and peaceful.

They were trying to get her to stand and get her out of the Waffle house, a part of their job.

And part of their job should be to get her out with a minimum of fuss and violence.

The cops don't have to sit their and appease you.

No one said they did. Where do you get these straw men?