#blacklivesmatter explanation

[Loren Pechtel]

Don't listen to Loren, this is the real story.

What is happening in America is an odd thing. There are shootings, it seems well over 1,000 killings involving the Police. Because statistics aren't tracked, there is no idea how much is undue shootings. Almost all of the officers aren't even charged when there is a killing. Almost none that are tried are convicted. This is ignoring beatings and what not.

Don't listen to Jimmy Higgins, his data doesn't add up.

http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_us.html

2013 (the last year for which data is available): 516 legal homicides.

From looking elsewhere I find this is roughly 60% police. Where are you getting the thousands of killings??

So when a black male is shot and killed, there is typically a sense that there is no due process. Some blame it on race, but that probably isn't fair. The lack of due process is protection of the Police. That the shooting happened at all, however, has some basis of race. Now here is the rub. If the victim was white, there is doubt if he would have been roughed up and consequently killed. And this is what is bothering blacks. Hence #blacklivesmatter.

Look at Axulus' thread--blacks are shot less often than their level of criminal activity would indicate.

What shouldn't be an issue divided by race, somehow is in this country.

And I explained why it's an issue. You've fallen for their deception hook, line and sinker.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

There are also people who see that and exploit it. There is a gangsta culture that markets it for profit. TV shows, music, etc glorifying it, even to the point that some daft white kids want to emulate it. There are people (often quite disconnected with the actual downtrodden) who happen to be black and use that group identity to their profit. I would not say it is the biggest problem going on with this, or even close to it, nor did Loren say that (yet), but it does happen, and dismissing it out of hand and sniping at anybody who mentions it won't help anything.

Not only does it not help anything but it actually hurts things. So long as there's an easy excuse the real issues won't be addressed.

Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton should get honorary KKK memberships. They're more effective at advancing the KKK's position than anything any member of the KKK does.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Don't listen to Jimmy Higgins, his data doesn't add up.

http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_us.html

2013 (the last year for which data is available): 516 legal homicides.

From looking elsewhere I find this is roughly 60% police. Where are you getting the thousands of killings??

You do realize the difference between saying "over 1000" and "thousands", right? Hey, if the number is lower, that is fine. I thought there wasn't a database for that information, though.

So when a black male is shot and killed, there is typically a sense that there is no due process. Some blame it on race, but that probably isn't fair. The lack of due process is protection of the Police. That the shooting happened at all, however, has some basis of race. Now here is the rub. If the victim was white, there is doubt if he would have been roughed up and consequently killed. And this is what is bothering blacks. Hence #blacklivesmatter.

Look at Axulus' thread--blacks are shot less often than their level of criminal activity would indicate.

Would indicate? I wasn't aware there was an acceptable pr expected baseline for shootings.

What shouldn't be an issue divided by race, somehow is in this country.

And I explained why it's an issue. You've fallen for their deception hook, line and sinker.

No, you just don't know how to read a post at all and feel it necessary to respond to tidbits of it, taken out of context. Seriously, it is pathetic.

 

[Toni]

You do realize the difference between saying "over 1000" and "thousands", right? Hey, if the number is lower, that is fine. I thought there wasn't a database for that information, though.

So when a black male is shot and killed, there is typically a sense that there is no due process. Some blame it on race, but that probably isn't fair. The lack of due process is protection of the Police. That the shooting happened at all, however, has some basis of race. Now here is the rub. If the victim was white, there is doubt if he would have been roughed up and consequently killed. And this is what is bothering blacks. Hence #blacklivesmatter.

Look at Axulus' thread--blacks are shot less often than their level of criminal activity would indicate.

Would indicate? I wasn't aware there was an acceptable pr expected baseline for shootings.

What shouldn't be an issue divided by race, somehow is in this country.

And I explained why it's an issue. You've fallen for their deception hook, line and sinker.

No, you just don't know how to read a post at all and feel it necessary to respond to tidbits of it, taken out of context. Seriously, it is pathetic.

Looking at Loren's link, I'm not seeing what he is seeing. What I am seeing is that death rates by 'legal intervention' occur at well over twice the rate for blacks compared with whites.

I wonder what his 'other sources' are?

 

[Rhea]

Look at Axulus' thread--blacks are shot less often than their level of criminal activity would indicate.
.

This is SO TRUE!!!!1!!!!!!111!

Look, we arrest them at 5 times the rate we arrest white people for the same activities and then we can claim look how criminal activityish they all are!!11!!!

White people smoke dope, don't get arrested.
Black people smoke dope, get arrested.

See how criminally activish they are! Bad race. Baaaad race!

And look how often "those" people have arrest records. Huh? Doesn't that prove it even more?
They walk down the street and get frisked and stopped for no reason.
Then they run when they see cops later.
See how guilty they must be?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You do realize the difference between saying "over 1000" and "thousands", right? Hey, if the number is lower, that is fine. I thought there wasn't a database for that information, though.

So when a black male is shot and killed, there is typically a sense that there is no due process. Some blame it on race, but that probably isn't fair. The lack of due process is protection of the Police. That the shooting happened at all, however, has some basis of race. Now here is the rub. If the victim was white, there is doubt if he would have been roughed up and consequently killed. And this is what is bothering blacks. Hence #blacklivesmatter.

Look at Axulus' thread--blacks are shot less often than their level of criminal activity would indicate.

Would indicate? I wasn't aware there was an acceptable pr expected baseline for shootings.

What shouldn't be an issue divided by race, somehow is in this country.

And I explained why it's an issue. You've fallen for their deception hook, line and sinker.

No, you just don't know how to read a post at all and feel it necessary to respond to tidbits of it, taken out of context. Seriously, it is pathetic.

Looking at Loren's link, I'm not seeing what he is seeing. What I am seeing is that death rates by 'legal intervention' occur at well over twice the rate for blacks compared with whites.

I wonder what his 'other sources' are?

Loren's link indicates a certain number of dead via legal intervention. In a thread by Axulus, there is snapshot information regarding shootings by race. The conclusion being made is that blacks are shot more often, but should be shot even more based on the percentage of violent crimes they are involved in. We'll ignore how many of the most recent cases didn't involve any violent crimes (selling single cigarettes, evading police on a stop, jaywalking, etc...)

 

[RavenSky]

the fact is you can take any perceived threatening cultural trait and apply it to whites, mexicans, asians, or potpourri and sure you'll make white people nervous, but it's only when you apply it to blacks that suddenly "immediate termination at the first tiny flicker of any behavior that isn't glaringly subservient" becomes something that is generally considered to be acceptable by society at large, or that will get people such as yourself and LP and derec to show up in threads and start doing mental gymnastics to try and justify.
this is why #blacklivesmatter exists.

Sometimes even "glaringly subservient" isn't enough for a black male, as evidenced by the guy who was scrambling to comply with a patrol officer's commands and got shot for reaching back into his car for his license as ordered to do.

As I recall, the usual members blamed the victim that time too; saying he should have known immediately obeying the cop's orders would startle the cop into shooting him.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

the fact is you can take any perceived threatening cultural trait and apply it to whites, mexicans, asians, or potpourri and sure you'll make white people nervous, but it's only when you apply it to blacks that suddenly "immediate termination at the first tiny flicker of any behavior that isn't glaringly subservient" becomes something that is generally considered to be acceptable by society at large, or that will get people such as yourself and LP and derec to show up in threads and start doing mental gymnastics to try and justify.
this is why #blacklivesmatter exists.

Sometimes even "glaringly subservient" isn't enough for a black male, as evidenced by the guy who was scrambling to comply with a patrol officer's commands and got shot for reaching back into his car for his license as ordered to do.

As I recall, the usual members blamed the victim that time too; saying he should have known immediately obeying the cop's orders would startle the cop into shooting him.

Link to that case? It doesn't sound familiar to me.

 

[Rhea]

Sometimes even "glaringly subservient" isn't enough for a black male, as evidenced by the guy who was scrambling to comply with a patrol officer's commands and got shot for reaching back into his car for his license as ordered to do.

As I recall, the usual members blamed the victim that time too; saying he should have known immediately obeying the cop's orders would startle the cop into shooting him.

Link to that case? It doesn't sound familiar to me.

I think it was last fall. There was video. He pulled over into a gas station parking lot, full daylight. Cop had him get out, he got out, shouted "License!" or something, man turned to get his license, cop shot him. Luckily, he lived.
(edited - cop was charged, I didn't see the outcome, though)

here's the article

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/25/justice/south-carolina-trooper-shooting/

When Groubert asks for Jones' license, Jones pivots toward the vehicle he just exited -- the driver's door is still open -- and leans inside as if to retrieve something, the video shows.

About two seconds later, the trooper that police identify as Groubert comes into view with a gun drawn and yells "Get out of the car! Get out of the car!" The gun is fired -- at least four shots are heard -- and Jones steps away from the vehicle, raising his hands in the air and eventually moving off camera.

"I just got my license! You said get my license!" says someone off camera, apparently Jones.

After being told to put his hands behind his back, Jones asks: "What did I do, sir?"

"Are you hit?" asks another off-camera voice, apparently Groubert's.

"I think so," comes the response. "I can't feel my leg. I don't know what happened."

The conversation continues:

"Why did you shoot me?"

"Well, you dove head-first back into your car. Then you (unintelligible), I'm telling you get out of your car."

Note the time that passes between "get out of the car!" and "bang bang bang bang"
What the fuck is the innocent person supposed to think in those seconds besides, What The Fuck?

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Citations or is this just a fantasy?

Our paper's archive is behind a paywall. Even if I found the article (something I've had great difficulty doing with their website) I couldn't link it.

What paper? I can get it.

 

[Rhea]

I went looking to find if he was ever convicted and found this slimy, vile, despicable piece of shit.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/trial-verdict-extended-ex-south-carolina-cop

South Carolina Department of Public Safety later released another version of the dashboard camera video, which is almost an hour long, in which Groubert tells an individual, who appears to be his supervisor, his own version of the incident. His account appears to be in stark contrast of the footage recorded by the camera.

“Before I could even get out of my car he jumped out, stared at me, and as I jumped out of my car and identified myself, as I approached him, he jumped head-first back into his car … he jumped out of the car. I saw something black in his hands.”

Fucking liar.
Lock his ass up.


But not for a while, apparently,

On Monday, a solicitor requested that 270 days — the longest time possible — be allotted to reach a conclusion in the case of State Trooper Sean Groubert, The State reported. The solicitor can determine that a decision should be reached in 120, 180, or 270 days depending on the complexity of the hearings and the severity of the offense. The process was implemented in January 2003 to reduce the backlog of the county’s cases.

And THIS, folks, is why #BlackLivesMatter is a thing.

 

[Rhea]

And to be accurate, he's probably not even "lying" because he first lied so thoroughly to himself that he became convinced that this was true. And this disturbing "police" mindset that his life is constantly in danger and it's always someone else's fault is what puts the rest of society at grave risk.

Lock his ass up.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Link to that case? It doesn't sound familiar to me.

I think it was last fall. There was video. He pulled over into a gas station parking lot, full daylight. Cop had him get out, he got out, shouted "License!" or something, man turned to get his license, cop shot him. Luckily, he lived.
(edited - cop was charged, I didn't see the outcome, though)

here's the article

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/25/justice/south-carolina-trooper-shooting/

Thanks. I'm presuming the officer meant to say "hands". Said the wrong word and responded with force when the man did something other than what was expected. What an unbelievably sad chain of events. Thankfully he did survive!

ETA: Just saw the following post. I could still be right, but I would think an officer would admit a mistake if that was the case. You fuck up like that and then try to get the guy sent to jail?! Shouldn't be an officer anymore, absolutely nothing less than that.

 

[Rhea]

]Thanks. I'm presuming the officer meant to say "hands". Said the wrong word and responded with force when the man did something other than what was expected. What an unbelievably sad chain of events. Thankfully he did survive!
.

My first quote was from memory. He didn't just say the one word after all, he said, "can I see your license, please?"

And a further discussion of the fuill video suggests that the guy did not see the cop, pulled into the gas station for a drink and got out. Cop says seatbelt, he says, "I just took it off to get out of the car,"

And it goes to hell from there, courtesy of unbalanced man with gun and attitude.

 

[RavenSky]

Sometimes even "glaringly subservient" isn't enough for a black male, as evidenced by the guy who was scrambling to comply with a patrol officer's commands and got shot for reaching back into his car for his license as ordered to do.

As I recall, the usual members blamed the victim that time too; saying he should have known immediately obeying the cop's orders would startle the cop into shooting him.

Link to that case? It doesn't sound familiar to me.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/25/justice/south-carolina-trooper-shooting/

I will give this municipality credit, though. They fired him immediately and are also pressing charges.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Link to that case? It doesn't sound familiar to me.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/25/justice/south-carolina-trooper-shooting/

I will give this municipality credit, though. They fired him immediately and are also pressing charges.

Due process. Things work better when there is due process!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You do realize the difference between saying "over 1000" and "thousands", right? Hey, if the number is lower, that is fine. I thought there wasn't a database for that information, though.

I just showed the police shootings are in the ballpark of 300/year. That's far less than 1000, not over 1000.

So when a black male is shot and killed, there is typically a sense that there is no due process. Some blame it on race, but that probably isn't fair. The lack of due process is protection of the Police. That the shooting happened at all, however, has some basis of race. Now here is the rub. If the victim was white, there is doubt if he would have been roughed up and consequently killed. And this is what is bothering blacks. Hence #blacklivesmatter.

Look at Axulus' thread--blacks are shot less often than their level of criminal activity would indicate.

Would indicate? I wasn't aware there was an acceptable pr expected baseline for shootings.

Police shootings are going to happen:

1) Suicide by cop.
2) People who would prefer to die than go to jail.
3) Violent crazies.

What shouldn't be an issue divided by race, somehow is in this country.

And I explained why it's an issue. You've fallen for their deception hook, line and sinker.

No, you just don't know how to read a post at all and feel it necessary to respond to tidbits of it, taken out of context. Seriously, it is pathetic.

You're still showing you have fallen for the lies.

- - - Updated - - -

You do realize the difference between saying "over 1000" and "thousands", right? Hey, if the number is lower, that is fine. I thought there wasn't a database for that information, though.

So when a black male is shot and killed, there is typically a sense that there is no due process. Some blame it on race, but that probably isn't fair. The lack of due process is protection of the Police. That the shooting happened at all, however, has some basis of race. Now here is the rub. If the victim was white, there is doubt if he would have been roughed up and consequently killed. And this is what is bothering blacks. Hence #blacklivesmatter.

Look at Axulus' thread--blacks are shot less often than their level of criminal activity would indicate.

Would indicate? I wasn't aware there was an acceptable pr expected baseline for shootings.

What shouldn't be an issue divided by race, somehow is in this country.

And I explained why it's an issue. You've fallen for their deception hook, line and sinker.

No, you just don't know how to read a post at all and feel it necessary to respond to tidbits of it, taken out of context. Seriously, it is pathetic.

Looking at Loren's link, I'm not seeing what he is seeing. What I am seeing is that death rates by 'legal intervention' occur at well over twice the rate for blacks compared with whites.

I wonder what his 'other sources' are?

The point of the link was to show the total numbers. It's pretty hard to have more than twice as many blacks be shot than the total number shot.

As for the racial makeup--Axulus has already shown that blacks are shot less often than their proportion of violent crime.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Our paper's archive is behind a paywall. Even if I found the article (something I've had great difficulty doing with their website) I couldn't link it.

What paper? I can get it.

Las Vegas Review Journal.

As usual, I'm having zero luck finding the article. Even with current stuff I fail more often than I succeed, I have never successfully found an old article.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I just showed the police shootings are in the ballpark of 300/year. That's far less than 1000, not over 1000.

Not quite. I can accept the number can be below 1,000. However, you have not proven the number is 300 /yr. The CDC has another database. It tracks Violent Deaths, but only for 17 states. In 2012 it reported 223 deaths via Legal Intervention. This excludes FL, NY, CA, and TX. There is a discrepancy about what these numbers mean, so nothing has been proven.

So when a black male is shot and killed, there is typically a sense that there is no due process. Some blame it on race, but that probably isn't fair. The lack of due process is protection of the Police. That the shooting happened at all, however, has some basis of race. Now here is the rub. If the victim was white, there is doubt if he would have been roughed up and consequently killed. And this is what is bothering blacks. Hence #blacklivesmatter.

Look at Axulus' thread--blacks are shot less often than their level of criminal activity would indicate.

Would indicate? I wasn't aware there was an acceptable pr expected baseline for shootings.

Police shootings are going to happen:

1) Suicide by cop.
2) People who would prefer to die than go to jail.
3) Violent crazies.

That is correct. That doesn't address my comment about there not being a baseline number of expected and understandable (for the typical person) shootings.

What shouldn't be an issue divided by race, somehow is in this country.

And I explained why it's an issue. You've fallen for their deception hook, line and sinker.

No, you just don't know how to read a post at all and feel it necessary to respond to tidbits of it, taken out of context. Seriously, it is pathetic.

You're still showing you have fallen for the lies.

Umm... no I haven't. If you read my posts in this very thread, you'd know that. So I can only assume you haven't even bothered to read my posts before responding to them.

 

[Toni]

I just showed the police shootings are in the ballpark of 300/year. That's far less than 1000, not over 1000.

So when a black male is shot and killed, there is typically a sense that there is no due process. Some blame it on race, but that probably isn't fair. The lack of due process is protection of the Police. That the shooting happened at all, however, has some basis of race. Now here is the rub. If the victim was white, there is doubt if he would have been roughed up and consequently killed. And this is what is bothering blacks. Hence #blacklivesmatter.

Look at Axulus' thread--blacks are shot less often than their level of criminal activity would indicate.

Would indicate? I wasn't aware there was an acceptable pr expected baseline for shootings.

Police shootings are going to happen:

1) Suicide by cop.
2) People who would prefer to die than go to jail.
3) Violent crazies.

What shouldn't be an issue divided by race, somehow is in this country.

And I explained why it's an issue. You've fallen for their deception hook, line and sinker.

No, you just don't know how to read a post at all and feel it necessary to respond to tidbits of it, taken out of context. Seriously, it is pathetic.

You're still showing you have fallen for the lies.

- - - Updated - - -

You do realize the difference between saying "over 1000" and "thousands", right? Hey, if the number is lower, that is fine. I thought there wasn't a database for that information, though.

So when a black male is shot and killed, there is typically a sense that there is no due process. Some blame it on race, but that probably isn't fair. The lack of due process is protection of the Police. That the shooting happened at all, however, has some basis of race. Now here is the rub. If the victim was white, there is doubt if he would have been roughed up and consequently killed. And this is what is bothering blacks. Hence #blacklivesmatter.

Look at Axulus' thread--blacks are shot less often than their level of criminal activity would indicate.

Would indicate? I wasn't aware there was an acceptable pr expected baseline for shootings.

What shouldn't be an issue divided by race, somehow is in this country.

And I explained why it's an issue. You've fallen for their deception hook, line and sinker.

No, you just don't know how to read a post at all and feel it necessary to respond to tidbits of it, taken out of context. Seriously, it is pathetic.

Looking at Loren's link, I'm not seeing what he is seeing. What I am seeing is that death rates by 'legal intervention' occur at well over twice the rate for blacks compared with whites.

I wonder what his 'other sources' are?

The point of the link was to show the total numbers. It's pretty hard to have more than twice as many blacks be shot than the total number shot.

As for the racial makeup--Axulus has already shown that blacks are shot less often than their proportion of violent crime.

So what violent crime was John Crawford guilty of? Levar Jones? Freddie Gray?