Both the Israelis and the Palestinians suck

[Harry Bosch]

It's not about land, it's about jewish state.

Why should jews have their own state? Should Methodists have their own state too? Are jewish people retarded in some way that means they can't fit in?

Methodists aren't under attack. Jews need to have a country where they can be safe and they can determine their own future. Even in Europe, Jews are under attack and are fleeing to Israel.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/21/w...-emigrating-to-israel-rises-sharply.html?_r=0

 

[Sabine Grant]

You constantly confuse nationality and religion. Do you actually understand what you are speaking about?

In it's founding laws it's many times referred to as a Jewish state.

Jewish and democratic state. Just try be a little bit correct.

"The Law of Return" is not extended to Muslims.

Muslims have plenty countries to live. Jews have only one.

it is for discussion.

No, it isn't. It is a fact. Just try to live with it.

And as long as Israelis keep pretending...

As long as you keep repeating this BS you more and more show signs of common anti-semitic syndrome. You just cannot understand very simple fact: today jews decide their fate.Yes, as long as 2000 years jews were fully dependent from other people. But now it is over. Israel is not and will not be like Europe where jews today are afraid exposing their national identity. Just forget about it.

French Jews are afraid to "expose their national identity"?(since you mentioned "Europe") Being French Jews, they are usually French citizens. The only time my father was afraid of revealing his Jewish ancestry was during the German occupation under the Vichy Government. France being my country of origin, I can assure you that French Jews are not afraid of being known as Jews. Most of our French Jews are represented within the White Collar working class. They occupy professions such as lawyers, physicians, business owners etc... and are far from longing to emigrate to Israel. The reason being is that they feel far more comfortable living in a secular nation and a secularism secured by the 1905 French Secular Laws to where they know there is no way religion will influence legislation. There is no law hanging over their heads restricting their driving on the Sabbath. They actually enjoy far more individual liberty than they would in Israel, a state with theocratic blue prints.

Let me suggest you read this article regarding those "blue prints" which IMO remain a deterrent to millions of Jews citizens of other nations and have no desire to reside in a "Jewish State" :

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/we-must-stop-israel-from-becoming-a-theocracy-1.371671

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yes, as long as 2000 years jews were fully dependent from other people..

Today the Zionists are fully dependent on the USA. Israel does not pay it's own way in life they are a sponge on America.

The amount of aid they get from us is a small % of their budget and most if it comes right back to our defense contractors--in other words, it's mostly corporate welfare.

Now, the Palestinians are getting about half of their GNP in aid. How about cutting 1% off that for every round that heads towards Israel?

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, as long as 2000 years jews were fully dependent from other people..

Today the Zionists are fully dependent on the USA. Israel does not pay it's own way in life they are a sponge on America.

The amount of aid they get from us is a small % of their budget and most if it comes right back to our defense contractors--in other words, it's mostly corporate welfare.

Now, the Palestinians are getting about half of their GNP in aid. How about cutting 1% off that for every round that heads towards Israel?

- - - Updated - - -

French Jews are afraid to "expose their national identity"?(since you mentioned "Europe") Being French Jews, they are usually French citizens. The only time my father was afraid of revealing his Jewish ancestry was during the German occupation under the Vichy Government. France being my country of origin, I can assure you that French Jews are not afraid of being known as Jews. Most of our French Jews are represented within the White Collar working class. They occupy professions such as lawyers, physicians, business owners etc... and are far from longing to emigrate to Israel. The reason being is that they feel far more comfortable living in a secular nation and a secularism secured by the 1905 French Secular Laws to where they know there is no way religion will influence legislation. There is no law hanging over their heads restricting their driving on the Sabbath. They actually enjoy far more individual liberty than they would in Israel, a state with theocratic blue prints.

Let me suggest you read this article regarding those "blue prints" which IMO remain a deterrent to millions of Jews citizens of other nations and have no desire to reside in a "Jewish State" :

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/we-must-stop-israel-from-becoming-a-theocracy-1.371671

You continue to pretend that France is all sweetness and light--the reality is that Jews *ARE* fleeing these days. Not a lot yet but even a trickle is a very bad sign.

 

[Harry Bosch]

You constantly confuse nationality and religion. Do you actually understand what you are speaking about?

Jewish and democratic state. Just try be a little bit correct.

"The Law of Return" is not extended to Muslims.

Muslims have plenty countries to live. Jews have only one.

it is for discussion.

No, it isn't. It is a fact. Just try to live with it.

And as long as Israelis keep pretending...

As long as you keep repeating this BS you more and more show signs of common anti-semitic syndrome. You just cannot understand very simple fact: today jews decide their fate.Yes, as long as 2000 years jews were fully dependent from other people. But now it is over. Israel is not and will not be like Europe where jews today are afraid exposing their national identity. Just forget about it.

French Jews are afraid to "expose their national identity"?(since you mentioned "Europe") Being French Jews, they are usually French citizens. The only time my father was afraid of revealing his Jewish ancestry was during the German occupation under the Vichy Government. France being my country of origin, I can assure you that French Jews are not afraid of being known as Jews. Most of our French Jews are represented within the White Collar working class. They occupy professions such as lawyers, physicians, business owners etc... and are far from longing to emigrate to Israel. The reason being is that they feel far more comfortable living in a secular nation and a secularism secured by the 1905 French Secular Laws to where they know there is no way religion will influence legislation. There is no law hanging over their heads restricting their driving on the Sabbath. They actually enjoy far more individual liberty than they would in Israel, a state with theocratic blue prints.

Let me suggest you read this article regarding those "blue prints" which IMO remain a deterrent to millions of Jews citizens of other nations and have no desire to reside in a "Jewish State" :

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/we-must-stop-israel-from-becoming-a-theocracy-1.371671

That was an interesting article. However, would you agree that some French Jews feel under attack and are leaving for Israel?

 

[font]

French Jews are afraid to "expose their national identity"?(since you mentioned "Europe") Being French Jews, they are usually French citizens. The only time my father was afraid of revealing his Jewish ancestry was during the German occupation under the Vichy Government. France being my country of origin, I can assure you that French Jews are not afraid of being known as Jews. Most of our French Jews are represented within the White Collar working class. They occupy professions such as lawyers, physicians, business owners etc... and are far from longing to emigrate to Israel. The reason being is that they feel far more comfortable living in a secular nation and a secularism secured by the 1905 French Secular Laws to where they know there is no way religion will influence legislation. There is no law hanging over their heads restricting their driving on the Sabbath. They actually enjoy far more individual liberty than they would in Israel, a state with theocratic blue prints.

Let me suggest you read this article regarding those "blue prints" which IMO remain a deterrent to millions of Jews citizens of other nations and have no desire to reside in a "Jewish State" :

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/we-must-stop-israel-from-becoming-a-theocracy-1.371671

Anti-Semitism forcing Jews out of France, says Israel

Around 3,200 people left last year, a 63% jump when compared to 2012.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27018606

Europe's Jews fear being recognized as such

Survey finds that rise in anti-Semitism prevents Jews from wearing traditional symbols, celebrating events

A quarter of respondents in a major survey of Jews from nine European countries said they avoid visiting places and wearing symbols that identify them as Jews for fear of anti-Semitism

In France, 40 percent of approximately 1,200 Jews said they avoided wearing such items in public, followed by Belgium with 36 percent, reported JTA. A separate survey, published last week, found that the number of racist attacks targeting French Jews in 2012, 614 in total, represents a 58 percent increase compared to 2011.

http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/inter...6-europe-s-jews-fear-being-recognized-as-such

You easily can find much more info.

The article (from leftist paper) provided by you was published before sharp increase of anti semitism in Europe.

 

[font]

Oh, I almost forgot about my "Great Teacher" from Sweden.

How to Survive as a Jew in Sweden

At one point I glanced around our compartment: there were four other people there, four adults witnessing a single mother and her five-year-old child being attacked by a grown man. They did nothing. I tried forcing them to meet my gaze; but they just turned away, put on their headphones, stared at their screens, ignored what was happening in front of them.

I did not summon the railway police. I did not scream back at the man. I know better. I know that the only way to survive as a Jew in my country is not to be seen as one. Not to be exposed but to shut up and fade into the woodwork. I’ve known this for quite some time. Unfortunately, my son knows it now, too.

My son no longer wears his kippah in public.

http://mosaicmagazine.com/supplemental/2013/08/how-to-survive-as-a-jew-in-sweden/

 

[untermensche]

Jews need to have a country where they can be safe and they can determine their own future.

They already have a country where they can do that. The US.

Letting some crazy Jews intrude into the Middle East was one of the worst ideas of the 20th Century.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Jews need to have a country where they can be safe and they can determine their own future.

They already have a country where they can do that. The US.

Letting some crazy Jews intrude into the Middle East was one of the worst ideas of the 20th Century.

?? The US is not the most welcome country in the world for immigrants. We don't have a time machine, Israel already exists. We should strive towards making a future two (or three) state solution for all sides.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Oh, I almost forgot about my "Great Teacher" from Sweden.

How to Survive as a Jew in Sweden

At one point I glanced around our compartment: there were four other people there, four adults witnessing a single mother and her five-year-old child being attacked by a grown man. They did nothing. I tried forcing them to meet my gaze; but they just turned away, put on their headphones, stared at their screens, ignored what was happening in front of them.

I did not summon the railway police. I did not scream back at the man. I know better. I know that the only way to survive as a Jew in my country is not to be seen as one. Not to be exposed but to shut up and fade into the woodwork. I’ve known this for quite some time. Unfortunately, my son knows it now, too.

My son no longer wears his kippah in public.

http://mosaicmagazine.com/supplemental/2013/08/how-to-survive-as-a-jew-in-sweden/

Yes, anti-semitism is a problem here. The old Nazism from the 30'ies never really went away. Anti-semitism isn't on the rise. It's been steady on the extreme fringes of society.

But I'd rather be a Jew than an Arab in Sweden. The chances of being targetted in a racist attack are infinitely higher if you sport Islamic symbols or just look like you might. That type of hate crime is on the rise.

Interesting development is that the Swedish nazi party now embrace homosexuals. Which I have a hard time understanding. But there you have it.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Oh, I almost forgot about my "Great Teacher" from Sweden.

How to Survive as a Jew in Sweden

At one point I glanced around our compartment: there were four other people there, four adults witnessing a single mother and her five-year-old child being attacked by a grown man. They did nothing. I tried forcing them to meet my gaze; but they just turned away, put on their headphones, stared at their screens, ignored what was happening in front of them.

I did not summon the railway police. I did not scream back at the man. I know better. I know that the only way to survive as a Jew in my country is not to be seen as one. Not to be exposed but to shut up and fade into the woodwork. I’ve known this for quite some time. Unfortunately, my son knows it now, too.

My son no longer wears his kippah in public.

http://mosaicmagazine.com/supplemental/2013/08/how-to-survive-as-a-jew-in-sweden/

Yes, anti-semitism is a problem here. The old Nazism from the 30'ies never really went away. Anti-semitism isn't on the rise. It's been steady on the extreme fringes of society.

But I'd rather be a Jew than an Arab in Sweden. The chances of being targetted in a racist attack are infinitely higher if you sport Islamic symbols or just look like you might. That type of hate crime is on the rise.

Interesting development is that the Swedish nazi party now embrace homosexuals. Which I have a hard time understanding. But there you have it.

That is interesting. What is driving the Swedish Nazi party? I would have guessed that racist attacks against Islamic people would be by far right Christians in Europe?

 

[untermensche]

They already have a country where they can do that. The US.

Letting some crazy Jews intrude into the Middle East was one of the worst ideas of the 20th Century.

?? The US is not the most welcome country in the world for immigrants. We don't have a time machine, Israel already exists. We should strive towards making a future two (or three) state solution for all sides.

The only way to get a two state solution is to force Israel to accept one. They have fought the idea and expanded into the territories for decades.

There is no official recognition from Israel of the right of the Palestinians to have a sovereign nation. That would be a good first step. After that Israel could explain exactly where that nation would be, since they have carved up the West Bank to the point no viable country could be made from the fractured Palestinian territories.

 

[4321lynx]

Oh, I almost forgot about my "Great Teacher" from Sweden.

How to Survive as a Jew in Sweden

At one point I glanced around our compartment: there were four other people there, four adults witnessing a single mother and her five-year-old child being attacked by a grown man. They did nothing. I tried forcing them to meet my gaze; but they just turned away, put on their headphones, stared at their screens, ignored what was happening in front of them.

I did not summon the railway police. I did not scream back at the man. I know better. I know that the only way to survive as a Jew in my country is not to be seen as one. Not to be exposed but to shut up and fade into the woodwork. I’ve known this for quite some time. Unfortunately, my son knows it now, too.

My son no longer wears his kippah in public.

http://mosaicmagazine.com/supplemental/2013/08/how-to-survive-as-a-jew-in-sweden/

Well, that link was an eye-opener for me. I had no idea what has been going on in Europe and in Sweden & Norway in particular. "Tolerant modern Democracies", eh? Much as I find any outward signalling of one's superstitious belief in religion and related other superstitions in public, whether Jewish, Muslim, Catholic, other Christian, Hindu, or whatever, to be as repugnant as any ritual slaughter of animals for human consumption and deserving of a ban in this 21st Century, the ban, if passed as a law, ought to apply to all such superstitions.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Jews need to have a country where they can be safe and they can determine their own future.

They already have a country where they can do that. The US.

Letting some crazy Jews intrude into the Middle East was one of the worst ideas of the 20th Century.

The US is currently acceptable for Jews.

The discriminatory admissions policies of the university system were originally designed to keep out Jews, though, and we refused a lot of them that were trying to escape the Nazis.

 

[untermensche]

They already have a country where they can do that. The US.

Letting some crazy Jews intrude into the Middle East was one of the worst ideas of the 20th Century.

The US is currently acceptable for Jews.

The discriminatory admissions policies of the university system were originally designed to keep out Jews, though, and we refused a lot of them that were trying to escape the Nazis.

There are millions of Jews living just fine in the US. They have no need of any other nation.

Their intrusion into the Middle East has been a disaster from day one.

 

[Harry Bosch]

They already have a country where they can do that. The US.

Letting some crazy Jews intrude into the Middle East was one of the worst ideas of the 20th Century.

The US is currently acceptable for Jews.

The discriminatory admissions policies of the university system were originally designed to keep out Jews, though, and we refused a lot of them that were trying to escape the Nazis.

Sure the US is acceptable for Jews. However, there is an equally bad problem in central and south America - the gang violence and extreme poverty. People are obsessed with Jews/arab conflict. But the gangs in central America will kill more innocents than the "genocide" in Gaza. As an American, I'd welcome immigrants who want to come to the US to work. But they shouldn't be forced to come here. If Jews fleeing discrimination want to locate in Israel, maybe we could accept more south American immigrants. I don't mean to mix both issues, but clearly people shouldn't be forced to move to the US. We can't absorb everyone.

 

[tupac chopra]

Why should jews have their own state? Should Methodists have their own state too? Are jewish people retarded in some way that means they can't fit in?

Do those Methodists consider themselves as a people? Have they a history as a people? Do they want be a people living in their own country? Are they ready to build their country and defend it? If all answers are "yes" my answer definitely is "yes".
And it doesn't matter that I have no idea who are these Methodists..

The Palestinians are a people, and they have much more connection to Palestine than European jews, some of whom even have blonde hair and blue eyes.
According to your logic it's the Palestinians who should be in Palestine

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The US is currently acceptable for Jews.

The discriminatory admissions policies of the university system were originally designed to keep out Jews, though, and we refused a lot of them that were trying to escape the Nazis.

There are millions of Jews living just fine in the US. They have no need of any other nation.

Their intrusion into the Middle East has been a disaster from day one.

Just fine now. The point is that it hasn't always been that way. Why should they trust that it wouldn't go bad again?

 

[untermensche]

There are millions of Jews living just fine in the US. They have no need of any other nation.

Their intrusion into the Middle East has been a disaster from day one.

Just fine now. The point is that it hasn't always been that way. Why should they trust that it wouldn't go bad again?

I see.

They need Israel in case the Nazi's rise up and take over the US.

And how will Israel be safe if that happens?

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Just fine now. The point is that it hasn't always been that way. Why should they trust that it wouldn't go bad again?

I see.

They need Israel in case the Nazi's rise up and take over the US.

And how will Israel be safe if that happens?

Israel itself will descend into right-wing fascism LONG before that ever happens. Zionism, at its core, is incompatible with democracy and, and when you combine their growing tend of heavy-handed ultra-right wing militarism with their already stupendously advanced military technology...


Seig Zion

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Just fine now. The point is that it hasn't always been that way. Why should they trust that it wouldn't go bad again?

I see.

They need Israel in case the Nazi's rise up and take over the US.

And how will Israel be safe if that happens?

It doesn't tanke the Nazis taking over. Look at what's happening in Europe now--no Nazi takeovers but the Jews are being chased out anyway.