Breakdown In Civil Order

[ZiprHead]

I'm inclined to believe Neely did do the things the witnesses said based on his record however I'm not one of those assholes who think Its the American way to believe people are guilty before proven innocent.

I'm uninclined to go back through the thread and find a list of people who referred to Penny as a murderer. Or a violent psycho.

But don't kid yourself. Guilty until proven innocent isn't just an American thing, it's right here on this forum.

What I'm seeing here, is "Get Whitey". Not the first time I've seen it. Won't be the last I expect.
Tom

I don't think his being white means much. Rather, it's the left doesn't want to face the ugly reality of self-defense situations.

What is the ugly reality here? That it's okay to kill someone for throwing trash at people?

You're doing the same thing.

The ugly reality is that it's an unknown situation with no good outcome. Saying "that's bad therefore it's wrong" is meaningless in a situation where good can't happen.

How do you know good "can't" happen?

 

[Gospel]

King Tom the C won't be happy with all the imbedding going on right now.

 

[laughing dog]

I'm inclined to believe Neely did do the things the witnesses said based on his record however I'm not one of those assholes who think Its the American way to believe people are guilty before proven innocent.

I'm uninclined to go back through the thread and find a list of people who referred to Penny as a murderer. Or a violent psycho.

But don't kid yourself. Guilty until proven innocent isn't just an American thing, it's right here on this forum.

What I'm seeing here, is "Get Whitey". Not the first time I've seen it. Won't be the last I expect.
Tom

I don't think his being white means much. Rather, it's the left doesn't want to face the ugly reality of self-defense situations.

What is the ugly reality here? That it's okay to kill someone for throwing trash at people?

You're doing the same thing.

The ugly reality is that it's an unknown situation with no good outcome. Saying "that's bad therefore it's wrong" is meaningless in a situation where good can't happen.

There are degrees of “bad outcomes”. How hard is to recognise that killing Mr Neely is worse than letting Mf Neely throw trash until those who either know what they are doing show up?

 

[bilby]

I think that MOST people don't go around committing battery once they're past middle school. Most people do NOT intentionally touch other people in a harmful or offensive fashion. I think it's quite a rare thing for most adults to do.

Your lack of self awareness and observantness is noted.

The fact remains that people touch other people all the time. Particularly in crowds.

 

[bilby]

By your definition, shaking someone's hand or touching their shoulder to get their attention would be considered battery... and that is absolutely NOT the case

Well I am so glad that you were here to assert this, thereby making it true despite its contradicting the letter of the law.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I can respect that. But lets not leave that ugly statement "victim of the system" laying out there. Some might think you're a BLM member or something. You mean to say Neely was partially a victim of circumstances right? It's not entirely an external blame as Neely does indeed hold some personal responsibility.

We have to say these things every time so that we won't get jumped on for supporting criminals.

How about "victim of the lack of system"? The circumstance in question here are the lack of sufficient mental health services to appropriately deal with Neely and prevent him from being a danger to himself or others.

It's not just a lack of adequate resources but what system exists to confine such people? How do you decide exactly who? We used to lock up far too many and then overreacted, we need some middle ground but that first requires a good evaluation of what warrants psychiatric lockup. Most of the whack jobs are harmless.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You're doing the same thing.

The ugly reality is that it's an unknown situation with no good outcome. Saying "that's bad therefore it's wrong" is meaningless in a situation where good can't happen.

How do you know good "can't" happen?

Liberal disease--the faith that there is a good outcome if the side with the power looks hard enough. Compared to conservative disease--the faith that everyone has a way of pulling themselves up if they just try hard enough.

 

[ZiprHead]

You're doing the same thing.

The ugly reality is that it's an unknown situation with no good outcome. Saying "that's bad therefore it's wrong" is meaningless in a situation where good can't happen.

How do you know good "can't" happen?

Liberal disease--the faith that there is a good outcome if the side with the power looks hard enough. Compared to conservative disease--the faith that everyone has a way of pulling themselves up if they just try hard enough.

So, black and white thinking. Gotcha.

 

[TomC]

So, black and white thinking. Gotcha.

Pretty much.
Rather like

Yes, I am. I see it as no differant than Derek Chauvin.

Black and white thinking. White people are always the perpetrators and black people are always the victims.

Because 19th century ...
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

So, black and white thinking. Gotcha.

Pretty much.
Rather like

Yes, I am. I see it as no differant than Derek Chauvin.

Black and white thinking. White people are always the perpetrators and black people are always the victims.

Because 19th century ...
Tom

I don't care about the color of the people involved. My comment was about the similarities between the two incidents. Asphyxiations applied too long in both cases. Bystanders tried to get the perpetrators to stop in both cases.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You're doing the same thing.

The ugly reality is that it's an unknown situation with no good outcome. Saying "that's bad therefore it's wrong" is meaningless in a situation where good can't happen.

How do you know good "can't" happen?

Liberal disease--the faith that there is a good outcome if the side with the power looks hard enough. Compared to conservative disease--the faith that everyone has a way of pulling themselves up if they just try hard enough.

So, black and white thinking. Gotcha.

You're not addressing the point.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So, black and white thinking. Gotcha.

Pretty much.
Rather like

Yes, I am. I see it as no differant than Derek Chauvin.

Black and white thinking. White people are always the perpetrators and black people are always the victims.

Because 19th century ...
Tom

I don't care about the color of the people involved. My comment was about the similarities between the two incidents. Asphyxiations applied too long in both cases. Bystanders tried to get the perpetrators to stop in both cases.

Except Derek Chauvin had no reason to be doing it at all.

 

[ZiprHead]

You're doing the same thing.

The ugly reality is that it's an unknown situation with no good outcome. Saying "that's bad therefore it's wrong" is meaningless in a situation where good can't happen.

How do you know good "can't" happen?

Liberal disease--the faith that there is a good outcome if the side with the power looks hard enough. Compared to conservative disease--the faith that everyone has a way of pulling themselves up if they just try hard enough.

So, black and white thinking. Gotcha.

You're not addressing the point.

I think I addressed it quite accurately.

 

[laughing dog]

You're doing the same thing.

The ugly reality is that it's an unknown situation with no good outcome. Saying "that's bad therefore it's wrong" is meaningless in a situation where good can't happen.

How do you know good "can't" happen?

Liberal disease--the faith that there is a good outcome if the side with the power looks hard enough. Compared to conservative disease--the faith that everyone has a way of pulling themselves up if they just try hard enough.

So, black and white thinking. Gotcha.

You're not addressing the point.

What point? Your observation makes the implicit assumptions that
1) no good outcome ( whatever you mean by that), and
2) there is only one possible bad outcome.

In this situation, there was no necessity for Mr Penny to act at all, or for him to choke Mr Neely to death.

Your conclusion that the only possible outcome of Mr. Penny’s action was Mr Neely’s death is breathtakingly stupid.


The obvious conclusion that Mr Penny did not have to kill Mr Neely comes from a combination of humane thinking and common sense. Most people view that as an example of healthy clear thinking. The views that
1) Mr Penny had no choice but to kill Mr Neely,
2) Mr Penny did nothing wrong
3) Mr Neely deserved to die, or
4) Mr Neely is responsible for his death,

are morally indefensible in civil society.

 

[repoman]

BLOOD CHOKE

not windpipe choke.

However, if well trained enough then Penny should have known about the dangers of blood chokes.

 

[TSwizzle]

The owner of two of San Francisco's largest hotels has stopped making mortgage payments on the properties and will let them go into foreclosure as historic crime rates continue to deter tourists. Park Hotels and Resorts announced on Monday that it stopped making payments on its $725 million loan due in November for the Hilton San Francisco Union Square and Parc 55 — the largest and fourth-largest hotels in the city, respectively. 'After much thought and consideration, we believe it is in the best interest for Park's stockholders to materially reduce our current exposure to the San Francisco market,' CEO Thomas Baltimore Jr said in a statement. 'Now, more than ever we believe San Francisco's path to recovery remains clouded and elongated by major challenges — both old and new' as the city becomes a ghost town with empty storefronts. 'Ultimately, the continued burden on our operating results and balance sheet is too significant to warrant continuing to subsidize and own these assets.'

Daily Mail

The slide continues. SF, starting to look like Detroit.

 

[TomC]

BLOOD CHOKE

not windpipe choke.

However, if well trained enough then Penny should have known about the dangers of blood chokes.

Why does anyone think that Penny was trained in choke holds?
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

BLOOD CHOKE

not windpipe choke.

However, if well trained enough then Penny should have known about the dangers of blood chokes.

Why does anyone think that Penny was trained in choke holds?
Tom

Breakdown In Civil Order

This is only because I'm not quick to believe a 24-year-old Marine Corps veteran accidently chocked someone to death. You forgot to mention "white". Honestly, if Penny isn't a violent person I could totally understand why he restrained Neely so badly that Neely died. He didn't know what he was...

iidb.org

 

[TomC]

BLOOD CHOKE

not windpipe choke.

However, if well trained enough then Penny should have known about the dangers of blood chokes.

Why does anyone think that Penny was trained in choke holds?
Tom

Breakdown In Civil Order

This is only because I'm not quick to believe a 24-year-old Marine Corps veteran accidently chocked someone to death. You forgot to mention "white". Honestly, if Penny isn't a violent person I could totally understand why he restrained Neely so badly that Neely died. He didn't know what he was...

iidb.org

So rather like most of your ideological counterparts on IIDB

Your good at ignoring what I said and going on and on about what you believe I meant.

Ok
I'm used to that.
Anything else?

Notice the question mark. Not everyone does.
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

BLOOD CHOKE

not windpipe choke.

However, if well trained enough then Penny should have known about the dangers of blood chokes.

Why does anyone think that Penny was trained in choke holds?
Tom

Breakdown In Civil Order

This is only because I'm not quick to believe a 24-year-old Marine Corps veteran accidently chocked someone to death. You forgot to mention "white". Honestly, if Penny isn't a violent person I could totally understand why he restrained Neely so badly that Neely died. He didn't know what he was...

iidb.org

So rather like most of your ideological counterparts on IIDB

Your good at ignoring what I said and going on and on about what you believe I meant.

Ok
I'm used to that.
Anything else?

Notice the question mark. Not everyone does.
Tom

You said "Why does anyone think that Penny was trained in choke holds?" Why don't you actually read posts before asking stupid questions and blaming others for your lack of comprehension.