Breakdown In Civil Order

[laughing dog]

The obvious conclusion that Mr Penny did not have to kill Mr Neely comes from a combination of humane thinking and common sense. Most people view that as an example of healthy clear thinking. The views that
1) Mr Penny had no choice but to kill Mr Neely,
2) Mr Penny did nothing wrong
3) Mr Neely deserved to die, or
4) Mr Neely is responsible for his death,

are morally indefensible in civil society.

And you once again seem to be ignoring
5) Mr. Neely appeared to be a threat to those around him such that Mr. Penny felt it appriopriate to intervene, and Mr. Penny unintentionally overdid it

Which seems like it should be defensible, at least to me.

Assuming Mr Neely was a threat to those around him (a big assumption), why should “ aw shucks, I overdid it” be an acceptable excuse for killing someone?

Chokeholds are tricky - if you don’t know what you are doing, you shouldn’t use it.

Unlike Mr Neely, Mr Penny will get a chance to defend himself in court.

You're assuming there's a middle ground that would provide restraint but not harm him. There's nothing like a guarantee that such a space exists.

No, I reason that if a restraint was necessary (a debatable assumption) that there was a restraining choice that did require killing Nr Neely.

 

[TSwizzle]

The defund the police woke crap infiltrates a jury;

A former San Bernardino County Sheriff’s deputy says she’s angry that a jury acquitted a man charged with her attempted murder, for a video-recorded attack in 2019 in Victorville in which she was beaten and her gun was taken during a fight. “If he’s found not guilty, then what happened to me?,” ex-deputy Meagan McCarthy told NBC4 Monday. Jurors found Ari A. Young not guilty on May 31 of attempted murder and assault with a firearm on a police officer, according to court records. Jurors convicted Young on a charge of firing a gun with gross negligence, and Young was released from jail.

News

Young beat the crap out the deputy, got a hold of her gun and tried to kill her with it.

 

[bilby]

The defund the police woke crap infiltrates a jury;

A former San Bernardino County Sheriff’s deputy says she’s angry that a jury acquitted a man charged with her attempted murder, for a video-recorded attack in 2019 in Victorville in which she was beaten and her gun was taken during a fight. “If he’s found not guilty, then what happened to me?,” ex-deputy Meagan McCarthy told NBC4 Monday. Jurors found Ari A. Young not guilty on May 31 of attempted murder and assault with a firearm on a police officer, according to court records. Jurors convicted Young on a charge of firing a gun with gross negligence, and Young was released from jail.

News

Young beat the crap out the deputy, got a hold of her gun and tried to kill her with it.

Not according to a jury who were shown all of the evidence in the case.

Why do you imagine that you (or NBC) know better than them?

Why do you believe that the deputy has a pure, accurate, and unbiased account of events, and the jurors do not?

Could it be that you're choosing what you want to believe, rather than accepting the verdict of a group of individuals who were selected to make a decision having been provided with all of the admissible evidence?

 

[laughing dog]

The defund the police woke crap infiltrates a jury;

A former San Bernardino County Sheriff’s deputy says she’s angry that a jury acquitted a man charged with her attempted murder, for a video-recorded attack in 2019 in Victorville in which she was beaten and her gun was taken during a fight. “If he’s found not guilty, then what happened to me?,” ex-deputy Meagan McCarthy told NBC4 Monday. Jurors found Ari A. Young not guilty on May 31 of attempted murder and assault with a firearm on a police officer, according to court records. Jurors convicted Young on a charge of firing a gun with gross negligence, and Young was released from jail.

News

Young beat the crap out the deputy, got a hold of her gun and tried to kill her with it.

Not according to a jury who were shown all of the evidence in the case.

Why do you imagine that you (or NBC) know better than them?

Why do you believe that the deputy has a pure, accurate, and unbiased account of events, and the jurors do not?

Could it be that you're choosing what you want to believe, rather than accepting the verdict of a group of individuals who were selected to make a decision having been provided with all of the admissible evidence?

According to the linked article, the video showed that defendant did not fire the weapon at the deputy.

 

[ZiprHead]

The defund the police woke crap infiltrates a jury;

A former San Bernardino County Sheriff’s deputy says she’s angry that a jury acquitted a man charged with her attempted murder, for a video-recorded attack in 2019 in Victorville in which she was beaten and her gun was taken during a fight. “If he’s found not guilty, then what happened to me?,” ex-deputy Meagan McCarthy told NBC4 Monday. Jurors found Ari A. Young not guilty on May 31 of attempted murder and assault with a firearm on a police officer, according to court records. Jurors convicted Young on a charge of firing a gun with gross negligence, and Young was released from jail.

News

Young beat the crap out the deputy, got a hold of her gun and tried to kill her with it.

Not according to a jury who were shown all of the evidence in the case.

Why do you imagine that you (or NBC) know better than them?

Why do you believe that the deputy has a pure, accurate, and unbiased account of events, and the jurors do not?

Could it be that you're choosing what you want to believe, rather than accepting the verdict of a group of individuals who were selected to make a decision having been provided with all of the admissible evidence?

According to the linked article, the video showed that defendant did not fire the weapon at the deputy.

The video I saw showed that he did.

 

[TomC]

According to the linked article, the video showed that defendant did not fire the weapon at the deputy.

The video I saw showed that he did.

This is rather a problem. People are convinced that they understand a complex situation because they saw a bit of video.
Tom

 

[bilby]

According to the linked article, the video showed that defendant did not fire the weapon at the deputy.

The video I saw showed that he did.

This is rather a problem. People are convinced that they understand a complex situation because they saw a bit of video.
Tom

Indeed. And the solution is to get both sides to present the most favourable evidence they can find for their side of the case, and to ask a panel of people who were not involved (we call this a "jury") to determine whether the suspected crimes did, in fact, occur, and whether the specific defendant on trial was or was not responsible.

If there are multiple videos available from multiple angles, then the prosecution can show the most damning one(s) they can obtain to the jury; and the defence can show the most exonerating one(s), and then the jury (unlike a bunch of half-informed media commentators or internet pundits) is in a position to decide guilt or innocence on each of the specific charges brought, being in possession of all of the admissible evidence.

Is it a perfect system? No.

Is it better than reading a news report, and/or siding with the cop because she is a cop? Absolutely.

 

[blastula]

From a little snippet of the one story I half read on this, they could tell it wasn't fired at her because of where the bullet was recovered.

And he was still convicted of some other related thing.

 

[steve_bank]

The Seattle progressive politicians decided not to ban public use of drugs. They say it is empathy for drug users.

When the state banned police pursuits then stolen cars went up. When pursued theifs just sped up.

If there is no pressure against drug use then the problem grows.

From the progressive side society as a whole no longer has a right to maintain civil order.

A few days ago when entering my building there were gunshots within a few hundred feet.

 

[bilby]

If there is no pressure against drug use then the problem grows.

Which problem?

There's almost no legal pressure against the use of alcohol or tobacco; What is the "problem" that alcohol and tobacco have as a result, but which Heroin and Cocaine don't have due to their being prohibited? In what way is that problem worse for society than it would be if alcohol and tobacco were made illegal (again, in the case of alcohol)?

 

[bilby]

When the state banned police pursuits then stolen cars went up. When pursued theifs just sped up.

Sounds like pursuits were just futile and dangerous then.

 

[bilby]

From the progressive side society as a whole no longer has a right to maintain civil order.

A few days ago when entering my building there were gunshots within a few hundred feet.

What makes you think the shooter was a progressive?

 

[repoman]

Is it POSSIBLE for there to be an overly permissive criminal justice system?

What would that be in your opinion?

 

[repoman]

 

[ZiprHead]

Penny has been indicted. No word on specific charges yet.

ETA: 2nd degree manslaughter.

 

[Gospel]

At minimum I surmise that allowing the flag to touch the ground in such a manner is inappropriate.

 

[bilby]

At minimum I surmise that allowing the flag to touch the ground in such a manner is inappropriate.

Getting precious about how the flag is handled is an American thing. The British don't care about their flag touching the ground, largely because they remember a time when most of the ground belonged to them.

 

[Gospel]

At minimum I surmise that allowing the flag to touch the ground in such a manner is inappropriate.

Getting precious about how the flag is handled is an American thing. The British don't care about their flag touching the ground, largely because they remember a time when most of the ground belonged to them.

Allow me to clarify an apparent misconception: I'm of Jamaican nationality, not American, as you seem to be suggesting based on your recurring theme.

Edit: BTW - Your reply wasn't unwarranted.

 

[TSwizzle]

Democratic governor Gavin Newsom has admitted that California's homelessness crisis is 'a disgrace' - but tried to blame Republicans for creating the situation. The Golden State is facing an opioid-fueled vagrancy epidemic, with cities like San Francisco and San Diego besieged with encampments and businesses shutting up shop. Newsom was grilled on the subject by Fox News host Sean Hannity after the latest blow to San Francisco's downtown as Westfield stopped making mortgage payments on its massive mall due to crime and tanking sales. Homelessness figures have risen 13 percent in California during Newsom's time as governor, with government statistics showing a 6.8 per cent increase between 2019 and 2020, and a further 6 percent increase between 2020 and 2022, according to the Public Policy Institute of California. According to government figures for San Francisco, there were 5,400 individuals experiencing homelessness in 2005, compared to more than 7,700 in 2022. The city also experienced a stark increase in 2019, rising to more than 8,000, the year Newsom took over as governor. San Francisco saw a staggering 41 percent surge in the number of drug-related deaths in the first quarter of 2023 compared to the same time last year, as fentanyl ravaged the city's homeless population.

The Californian coastal hub saw 200 people die due to overdoses between January and March, compared to 142 deaths in 2022, according to data from the city's medical examiner. In the latest police statistics for May 2023, homicides in San Francisco were recorded as up 5 percent from the same time last year, while robberies are up a staggering 16 percent. Hotels and other businesses are fleeing its rundown streets with revenue close to 23 percent lower per available room than it was in 2019, the Wall Street Journal reported.

Daily Mail

Newsom for president!!

How does someone this incompetent get to run the state of California? Newsom is a weapon's grade moron. just plain dumb.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yeah, Newsom is also responsible for all the spike in fentanyl related overdose deaths in 49 other states too!