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Breakdown In Civil Order

Legalizing possession is not enough. The crime comes from the high cost. Think of the difference between the alcoholic and the junkie. Neither are good but who is going to mug you?
Not all drugs are created equal. Think of the difference between the alcoholic and the pothead. Neither are good, but who is going to run over you or beat the crap out of you in a rage?
 

And yes, I am aware of the unrealized capital gains issue. If you receive wealth you should be taxed on the wealth you receive.
The thing is unrealized capital gains is not receiving wealth. You didn't receive anything. The value of what you already had went up.

Let's look at this house. In the decade after we bought it it doubled in value. Should we have had to pay tax on that value? And then the housing collapse came along and knocked it back to what we had originally paid. Capital loss? Since then it has peaked somewhere around the same amount as before the prior collapse, it's dropped a bit since.

Should we have been taxed on all the increases, and taken losses in the bad years? And should we have had to have an appraisal every year to figure out the gains/losses? Stock is more liquid but none of the single-company guys could sell their stock for anything like what it's "worth". Trying to do so would crash the price.
 
I suspect most of the landlords have no rens mea, though.
A rens mea?
I suspect he meant Mens Rea

In criminal law, mens rea (/ˈmɛnz ˈreɪə/; Law Latin for "guilty mind"[1]) is the mental state of a defendant who is accused of committing a crime. In common law jurisdictions, most crimes require proof both of mens rea and actus reus ("guilty act") before the defendant can be found guilty.
Yup, it's a term I use rarely enough I obviously switched the sounds.
 
Just out of curiosity... do you consider drunk driving to NOT be an ancillary crime?
Er, OK I overstated "no ancillary crime". But there is less than when banned. Even tobacco has smugglers. Because of the high taxes in some states. But I doubt anyone is being killed over it.
Not all drugs are created equal.
Some things need good regulation, some need professional oversight and monitoring, some need no particular laws at all. Not all scenarios and situations are the same, and each needs to be considered on its own merits with consideration given to both direct and indirect consequences.
Which is what I'm saying. Prohibition looses that kind of control.
Prohibition allowed for a black market for alcohol to flourish.
As it currently does with drugs.
Now, In some states (like PA where I am) any drink harder than beer is sold in stores owned by the state itself. Even the alcohol content of the beer is regulated, here in the US.
 
I suspect most of the landlords have no rens mea, though.
A rens mea?
Latin, a guilty mind. I suspect most did not realize it was price fixing. They just saw a company offering guidance on setting rent for maximum profit and didn't realize it worked by getting everyone to charge too much.

Most crimes require an intent to commit a wrongful act. Someone who has no idea they consumed alcohol will get off on a DUI. (usually alcohol-naive teens who didn't know the punch was spiked, but it could also apply to someone roofied or the like.) Likewise, the UPS guy isn't guilty of possession for delivering a box of drugs.
I'll note this is the correct way to handle it.

That said, someone only gets to use that excuse ONCE. If they repeat the offending act after that, mens rea is the default assumption. It's like if someone harassed after being told to stop.
 
I’m most concerned about corruption in the Supreme Court, the impact of the McConnell Ryan Trump tax give away on revenue, the appointment of shills to and destruction of executive agencies, etc… But hey if we can just keep the brown people and queers in check then it won’t matter if a couple of global entities hold all the capital, control the supply chains, freely dump negative externalities on the commons, and fix prices then everything will be okay. It will be a bonus if the Christianists get to claim their territories.
This seems entirely irrelevant to this thread. I'm sure there's somewhere more appropriate you could have posted this.
Keep wringing your hands over things that don’t matter and/or symptoms of a deeper rot without addressing the real threats. That will make a utopia for sure.
 
I’m most concerned about corruption in the Supreme Court, the impact of the McConnell Ryan Trump tax give away on revenue, the appointment of shills to and destruction of executive agencies, etc… But hey if we can just keep the brown people and queers in check then it won’t matter if a couple of global entities hold all the capital, control the supply chains, freely dump negative externalities on the commons, and fix prices then everything will be okay. It will be a bonus if the Christianists get to claim their territories.
This seems entirely irrelevant to this thread. I'm sure there's somewhere more appropriate you could have posted this.
Keep wringing your hands over things that don’t matter and/or symptoms of a deeper rot without addressing the real threats. That will make a utopia for sure.
WTF are you talking about?
 
It's sarcasm being used to highlight the perceived absurdity of prioritizing social control over addressing issues critical to civil order. You seemed to hand waive it away as irrelevant prompting the reply you just received.
 
Why aren’t more of the people that are so concerned with the loss of civil order that they perceive around drugs, shoplifting, property crime etc… not concerned with the loss of civil order embodied in actions such as trying to overthrow an election using fraudulent tactics and violence? Why aren’t they concerned with a lopsided tax and penal structure that lets a certain class operate in near lawlessness while attempting to keep a boot on the neck of others?

In my white world the least orderly people tend to be MAGA types partying it up in their boats and big trucks and throwing tantrums when the game warden busts them for drunk boating or poaching. They are also the most likely to harass me in their quest to own and intimidate the libs. The street folk in my neighborhood try to stay invisible most of the time.
 
This thread completely ignores the GOP embrace of the meth heads and all the other “you caint tell me wut to do” white people.
 
It's sarcasm being used to highlight the perceived absurdity of prioritizing social control over addressing issues critical to civil order. You seemed to hand waive it away as irrelevant prompting the reply you just received.
Political views about the supreme court, taxes, and whether capitalism is evil seem pretty far removed from what constitutes reasonable drug laws in my opinion.
 
Why aren’t more of the people that are so concerned with the loss of civil order that they perceive around drugs, shoplifting, property crime etc… not concerned with the loss of civil order embodied in actions such as trying to overthrow an election using fraudulent tactics and violence? Why aren’t they concerned with a lopsided tax and penal structure that lets a certain class operate in near lawlessness while attempting to keep a boot on the neck of others?
Why do you think that we shouldn't be allowed to discuss the immediate issues around drugs, shoplifting, and property crime without also addressing everything else? I'm happy to address those other issues... in a different thread.
In my white world the least orderly people tend to be MAGA types partying it up in their boats and big trucks and throwing tantrums when the game warden busts them for drunk boating or poaching. They are also the most likely to harass me in their quest to own and intimidate the libs. The street folk in my neighborhood try to stay invisible most of the time.
To be fair, most of the people under the influence in your neck of the woods are elderly folks on prescription meds. Which doesn't make them any less dangerous on the roads... but it's not the same policies in action as you see in SF, Portland, and Seattle.

Different problems merit different solutions.
 
More mayhem in California cities.

Acrid smoke is greeting San Franciscans on their way into work this morning after another terrifying night of sideshows took Oakland and the waterfront. Police refused to intervene and not a single arrest was made among the thousands who risked their lives as cars tore round their city centers in what has become a routine occurrence. Onlookers were sent flying as cars plowed into them at one event in Oakland, and a torched Chevy provided a grisly centerpiece to the Embarcadero spectacle as tire smoke reduced visibility to near zero. 'We are on our own here,' tweeted one resident. 'Why do we pay taxes again?' Police were called to what they described an 'active exhibition of stunt driving' in Embarcadero and Washington streets at around 2.10am. But they sat on the sidelines as the waterfront area was transformed into an apocalyptic scene of smoke, fire, lasers, fireworks and squealing tires.

Daily Mail

An AutoZone store in South Los Angeles was looted by a large crowd overnight and it was all caught on video. The incident happened around 4 a.m. Monday on Century Boulevard and Hoover Street. According to the Los Angeles Police Department, witnesses reported about 50 people breaking into the store. Cellphone video from the scene shows the large group pulling back the security fencing in front of the store's entrance before they shoved their way in. Others entered through a side entrance. Police say at least one person was seen breaking a window.
The footage captured the sound of tires screeching in the background, where a street takeover was taking place. It's unclear if the two incidents are related.

ABC News
 

And yes, I am aware of the unrealized capital gains issue. If you receive wealth you should be taxed on the wealth you receive.
The thing is unrealized capital gains is not receiving wealth. You didn't receive anything. The value of what you already had went up.
If you recieved nothing then why do banks allow you to use "nothing" as collateral for loans.

Stock options are wealth. Banks recognize it as such yet the government doesn't. That can be changed.

Let's look at this house. In the decade after we bought it it doubled in value. Should we have had to pay tax on that value? And then the housing collapse came along and knocked it back to what we had originally paid. Capital loss? Since then it has peaked somewhere around the same amount as before the prior collapse, it's dropped a bit since.

Should we have been taxed on all the increases, and taken losses in the bad years? And should we have had to have an appraisal every year to figure out the gains/losses? Stock is more liquid but none of the single-company guys could sell their stock for anything like what it's "worth". Trying to do so would crash the price.
Homes are a far differant sort of wealth. You cannot sell a home almost instananeously with a few keystrokes on a computer.
 
If you recieved nothing then why do banks allow you to use "nothing" as collateral for loans.
Because it has value. But that value isn't realized until the asset is liquidated. Banks may allow some types of illiquid wealth as collateral, because the bank then has a claim against that asset. If you default on the loan, they can claim value from those assets and either directly take control of them (repossessing a vehicle or foreclosing on a home for example) or they can require that you liquidate the asset in order to repay the loan - even if such liquidation ends up costing you value.
 
If you recieved nothing then why do banks allow you to use "nothing" as collateral for loans.
Because it has value. But that value isn't realized until the asset is liquidated. Banks may allow some types of illiquid wealth as collateral, because the bank then has a claim against that asset. If you default on the loan, they can claim value from those assets and either directly take control of them (repossessing a vehicle or foreclosing on a home for example) or they can require that you liquidate the asset in order to repay the loan - even if such liquidation ends up costing you value.
If banks consider it value so can the government. It's a huge tax dodge for mostly rich people. Why do you think CEO compensation has changed from actual dollars to stock options?

How It Works: Companies Deduct Costs They Don’t Incur

Most big corporations give their executives (and sometimes other employees) options to buy the company’s stock at a favorable price in the future. When employees exercise these options, corporations can take a tax deduction for the difference between what the employees pay for the stock and what it’s worth (employees report this difference as taxable wages).

Before 2006, companies could deduct the “cost” of the stock options on their tax returns, reducing their taxable profits as reported to the IRS, but didn’t have to reduce the profits they reported to their shareholders in the same way, creating a big gap between “book” and “tax” income. Some observers, including CTJ, argued that the most sensible way to resolve this would be to deny companies any tax deduction for an alleged cost that doesn’t require a cash outlay, and to require the same treatment for shareholder reporting purposes.

But instead, rules in place since 2006 maintained the tax write-off, but now require companies to lower their “book” profits to take account of options. But the book write-offs are usually much less than what the companies take as tax deductions. This is because the oddly-designed rules require the value of the stock options for book purposes to be calculated — or guessed at — when the options are issued, while the tax deductions reflect the actual value when the options are exercised. Because companies typically low-ball the estimated values, they usually end up with much bigger tax write-offs than the amounts they deduct as a “cost” in computing the profits they report to shareholders.

Reforming the Excess Stock Option Tax Break

Despite the changes that took effect in 2006, the stock option tax break continues to reduce the effectiveness of the corporate income tax. A February 2014 CTJ report assessing taxes paid by Fortune 500 corporations consistently profitable from 2008 through 2012 identified the excess stock option tax break as a major reason for the low effective tax rates paid by many of the nation’s biggest companies.https://ctj.org/excessstockoption0416finalv2.doc#_edn1

In recent years, some members of Congress have taken aim at this tax break. For example, former Michigan Senator Carl Levin (D-MI) introduced the “Cut Unjustified Loopholes Act,” which includes a provision requiring companies to treat stock options the same for both book and tax purposes, as well as making stock option compensation subject to the $1 million cap on corporate tax deductions for top executives’ pay. The stock option loophole essentially allows profitable corporations to underwrite executive compensation on average taxpayers’ dime. Executives are able to cash out when their stock becomes more valuable, and corporations are able to deduct an imaginary cost.

During a time when the nation is failing to raise enough revenue to adequately fund its priorities, lawmakers should move to close the stock option loophole to make the tax system fairer and raise much-needed revenue.

Fortune 500 Corporations Used Stock Option Loophole to Avoid $64.6 Billion in Taxes Over the Past Five Years
 
If banks consider it value so can the government. It's a huge tax dodge for mostly rich people. Why do you think CEO compensation has changed from actual dollars to stock options?
I get where you're coming from. But there's a side of this that I suspect you're not really thinking through.

Do you have a retirement account? Do you think it makes sense for the government to tax that retirement account on it's market value every year?

The sort of assets you're talking about get taxed when they are realized. It's not like they are completely exempt from taxes, it's just deferred. If you have non-liquid assets worth $100,000 right now, they're not taxed as long as they aren't actually money. As soon as you cash it in and it becomes money, it gets taxed.

That said, I'm quite happy to change the way in which realized gains get taxed. And I'd be quite happy if stock options were barred from being an element of compensation for employees and executives.
 
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