Breakdown In Civil Order

[ZiprHead]

Stats of the States - Homicide Mortality

www.cdc.gov

 

[Swammerdami]

Ah, so are you denying that the murder rate is higher in Dem counties?

See for yourself. Looks like Republican areas are winning the competition, with Mississippi and Louisiana fighting it out for the top spot. Sorry that I couldn't find a breakdown by counties, but maybe you could learn to understand the difference between raw numbers of homicides versus rates of homicide by population.

It's probably obvious that the map showed ABSOLUTE murder numbers, but I was doubtful — I hoped that anyone posting at IIDB could avoid that stupidity. So I searched for the source image using Google Images.

Google found only

Election map by county vs murder rate by county

Election map by county vs murder rate by county - This is quite interesting. I don’t have a county map that overlaps gun laws, but I’m assuming they are roughly t

www.tigerdroppings.com

Just the URL name is amazing! TigerDroppings/Rant !

But that source was just as useless. I downloaded that image (two separate U.S. maps, concatenated and with titles added), cropped it and Googled again, finding this source:

https://www.gunownersca.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Map-US-Murder-Fixed.jpg

GunOwners !

That image is also some size-reduced copy, but at least I can read the fine print well enough to confirm that it shows ABSOLUTE numbers.

Right-wingers know that misleading statistics will confuse a large portion of the American population. But why do they try it here at IIDB? Just for practice? To fine-tune their game? They don't even know the rudiments of statistical thinking?


ETA: Just the names of Oleg's sources are amusing. TigerDroppings.Com ?? I'd Google to find out which QAnon nut organized it, but life is short.

Oleg? Fill us in on how you find your "information"?

 

[Oleg]

ETA: Just the names of Oleg's sources are amusing. TigerDroppings.Com ?? I'd Google to find out which QAnon nut organized it, but life is short.

Oleg? Fill us in on how you find your "information"?

Eh, I knew the relationship was true and found the comparison maps on Google images. Are you not aware of that function?

Still, it’s the Dem areas in Red states with the high homicide rate. And that’s due to percentage of black population; a group that mostly votes Dem.

 

[Shadowy Man]

ETA: Just the names of Oleg's sources are amusing. TigerDroppings.Com ?? I'd Google to find out which QAnon nut organized it, but life is short.

Oleg? Fill us in on how you find your "information"?

Eh, I knew the relationship was true and found the comparison maps on Google images. Are you not aware of that function?

In other words, you knew the relationship you wanted to find and you stopped looking after you found data that agreed with you?

 

[bleubird]

Opinion | How the GOP convinced America that a 'crime crisis' is underway

The GOP is hoping that telling Americans there's a bad vibe is enough to win the midterms.

www.msnbc.com

I know liberal media,but I have seen more like this.

 

[Copernicus]

ETA: Just the names of Oleg's sources are amusing. TigerDroppings.Com ?? I'd Google to find out which QAnon nut organized it, but life is short.

Oleg? Fill us in on how you find your "information"?

Eh, I knew the relationship was true and found the comparison maps on Google images. Are you not aware of that function?

Still, it’s the Dem areas in Red states with the high homicide rate. And that’s due to percentage of black population; a group that mostly votes Dem.

Oleg, you are still just looking raw numbers of murders rather than some kind of statistic normalized for population, and your misguided attempt to make this all about race rather than other factors (e.g. economics, unemployment, alcoholism, education levels, gun ownerships prevalence, etc.) is frankly disgusting. There are many factors that have a bearing on crime rates, not to mention murder, that have nothing to do with race or political parties. It is obvious that there will be more homicides in areas where there are more people, so your attempt to use raw numbers to support a case against political parties and racial demographics tells us nothing at all about the causes of the breakdown in civil order. It tells us a lot about your own biases and prejudices, however.

 

[Copernicus]

ETA: Just the names of Oleg's sources are amusing. TigerDroppings.Com ?? I'd Google to find out which QAnon nut organized it, but life is short.

Oleg? Fill us in on how you find your "information"?

Eh, I knew the relationship was true and found the comparison maps on Google images. Are you not aware of that function?

Still, it’s the Dem areas in Red states with the high homicide rate. And that’s due to percentage of black population; a group that mostly votes Dem.

Oleg, your misguided attempt to make this all about race rather than other factors (e.g. economics, unemployment, alcoholism, education levels, gun ownerships prevalence, etc.) is frankly disgusting. There are many factors that have a bearing on crime rates, not to mention murder, that have nothing to do with race or political parties. It is obvious that there will be more homicides in areas where there are more people, so your attempt to use statistics to support a case against political parties and racial demographics tells us nothing at all about the causes of the breakdown in civil

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Vancouver has pretty low crime rates for a major city, especially by way of comparison to the major metropoles of the US.

Cool story but that is probably no comfort to the people of Vancouver that are victims of violent crimes which are increasing.

The Republicans keep pointing out crime issues in blue areas to distract from the fact that Republican areas generally have higher crime rates than Democrat areas. As always, it's projection at work.

Exhibit A in how to lie with statistics.

Both maps really are showing population density.

For some actually relevant data: https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/crime-rate-by-state

 

[TSwizzle]

This is what we have to put up with in California;

A mother mourned the death of her husband and daughter after they were both stabbed to death in a Kohl's parking lot in Palmdale, just north of Los Angeles. Ken Evans and his 22 year-old-daughter McKenna were killed in a seemingly random attack that happened just just before noon on Thursday, LA County Sheriff's Department have said.
A witness recounted how she saw McKenna screaming and running around the parking lot. She said that he then stabbed her 'in the back, on the side of her ribs and in her stomach. He walked away from it, came back and started stabbing her again. Then walked away again. Came back. Kicked her, stabbed her two times in the abdomen and walked away,' she added.

Daily Mail

Yet another “homeless” person attacking at random. Two people literally butchered in the parking lot of Kohl’s. Fourth biggest economy in the world.

 

[Shadowy Man]

This is what we have to put up with in California;

A mother mourned the death of her husband and daughter after they were both stabbed to death in a Kohl's parking lot in Palmdale, just north of Los Angeles. Ken Evans and his 22 year-old-daughter McKenna were killed in a seemingly random attack that happened just just before noon on Thursday, LA County Sheriff's Department have said.
A witness recounted how she saw McKenna screaming and running around the parking lot. She said that he then stabbed her 'in the back, on the side of her ribs and in her stomach. He walked away from it, came back and started stabbing her again. Then walked away again. Came back. Kicked her, stabbed her two times in the abdomen and walked away,' she added.

Daily Mail

Yet another “homeless” person attacking at random. Two people literally butchered in the parking lot of Kohl’s. Fourth biggest economy in the world.

Seems like Palmdale needs to replace its Democratic leadership.

 

[Patooka]

Yet another “homeless” person attacking at random. Two people literally butchered in the parking lot of Kohl’s. Fourth biggest economy in the world.

Meh, I'm more worried about the constant hammer attacks that happen everyday. TSwizzle, clearly the US is a fucking terrifying place. It's aa miracle you're still alive. You guys live in the real Thunderdome, apparently.

 

[Colonel Sanders]

Cool story but that is probably no comfort to the people of Vancouver that are victims of violent crimes which are increasing.

Neither are histrionic posts and bullshit "documentaries" on the internet. In fact, scaremongering is basically the opposite of comforting.

So you don’t a problem? Ok.

I don't a problem?

I guess you mean "you don't see a problem"?

If so, my answer is that I see a lot of problems. What I don't see - especially coming from the types of people who use a lot of square quotes and emotional appeals in place of sound reason or even facts - are meaningful solutions to those problems.

This^ so much.

Lots and lots of complaining but when pressed for any solution, there is never any forthcoming. When offered solutions, the answer is invariably "We Can't" or something equivalent to it, and usually the sentiment, "Why should I have to pay for that?!?!?" comes attached.

 

[Copernicus]

Yet another “homeless” person attacking at random. Two people literally butchered in the parking lot of Kohl’s. Fourth biggest economy in the world.

Meh, I'm more worried about the constant hammer attacks that happen everyday. TSwizzle, clearly the US is a fucking terrifying place. It's aa miracle you're still alive. You guys live in the real Thunderdome, apparently.

You completely missed the point, which was that no such murders ever happen in states controlled by Republicans. It's quite amazing when you consider that fact, which is reported all the time on Fox News but never taken into account by Democrats, who created the homeless problem by opening up the borders. You don't have such problems in Australia, even though you have socialized medicine.

 

[lpetrich]

AOC retweeted:
Matthew Chapman on Twitter: "That's a huge cop-out. The fact is, shootings in NYC have been basically flat for 2 years, but mentions of shootings in local news spiked from 100/mo in Jan 2021 to over 800/mo now.
You cannot look at this chart and tell me that didn't influence public perception of safety. (pic link)" / Twitter
Claiming that news stories about shootings had a factor of 4 jump in recent months even as the numbers of shootings stayed flat.

Is New York City More Dangerous Than Rural America? - Bloomberg - "Rising homicide rates don’t tell the whole story. When you dig deeper into data on deaths, you'll find the more urban your surroundings, the less danger you face."

Chris Sprigman on Twitter: "People don't understand ..." / Twitter

People don't understand how much safer NYC is than other American cities, and indeed, compared also with rural America.

You are less likely to be murdered in NYC than most other places in America. But that's not even the full picture of how much safer NYC is, because when you look not just at murders, but also at car crashes--a very large cause of death in America--NYC's relative safety becomes even clearer.

And if you count not just murders and car crashes, but all external causes (drownings, lawnmower accidents, etc.), it becomes downright scary to live anywhere else but NYC.

Oh, and 3 of NYC's 5 boros are among the 10 safest counties in America.

What drives the completely wrong yet widespread and bizarrely persistent view that NYC is dangerous? Part of it is racism. But part of it is a broader rejection and loathing among many Americans of what NYC stands for. I was born in Queens but spend most of my childhood in an exurb of NYC, Suffolk County. The growth of that place was fueled by a post-WWII exodus of white people from NYC. White people who left the city on the heels of the post-WWII migration of Black Americans from the South. Those people cut themselves off from the life of NYC, and stranded themselves in ticky-tacky boxes built in what used to be potato fields that developers transformed into a soul-crushing landscape of house-driveway-lawn-house-driveway-lawn-house-driveway-etc etc etc etc. To justify this act of self-harm, NYC's suburbanites constructed an elaborate moral narrative about crime in NYC. One that, for many years now, has had little to do with actual crime in NYC, but rather with the suburbanite's attempt to rationalize suburban life, such as it is.

People are meant to live in cities. It's better for them. And safer.

Meant? Humanity lived in tiny communities for nearly all of its existence, tiny compared to what agriculture made possible.


Then some people noting that car accidents seem much more tolerable than crime. That reminds me of Isaac Asimov's short story "Sally" about self-driving cars and how manual driving was outlawed as needlessly dangerous.

Adrien Delessert on Twitter: "@CJSprigman The longer I’ve lived in NYC, the more I’ve come to feel it’s insane we tolerate 40k+ deaths and 2+ million injuries a year to car crashes, and just continue to build cities & neighborhoods where you can’t do *anything* without getting into a car." / Twitter
and
Jaime Caldwell on Twitter: "@dlssrt @CJSprigman Ive said for a long time that living in NYC, I don’t have to worry about my kids texting while driving or drinking and driving because we have zero need for owning a car. It’s definitely a perk to raising children here." / Twitter

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Proud to represent one of the safest places in America. The right wing can stay mad and spiraling in their cognitive dissonance.
We’ll be out here continuing our efforts to house, employ, and expand healthcare to all people - making everyone safer in the process. " / Twitter

 

[lpetrich]

Radley Balko on Twitter: "Fearmongering works:
OK violent crime rate: 458 per 100K
NY violent crime rate: 364 per 100K
OK murder rate: 7.25
NY murder rate: 4.11
% of Oklahomans who say crime is most urgent issue: 5
% of New Yorkers: 28" / Twitter

 

[ZiprHead]

Personal conflicts biggest cause of murders in U.S.

The first systematic, in-depth look at murder and suicide in the United States shows that personal conflicts are the major factor in such deaths, as opposed to random violence or other crime.

www.reuters.com

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The first systematic, in-depth look at murder and suicide in the United States shows that personal conflicts are the major factor in such deaths, as opposed to random violence or other crime.

Guns are the most commonly used weapons in both murders and suicides, according to the analysis of data from 2007 released on Thursday by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

“The pattern that stands out the most is we see a lot of intimate partner violence, mental health problems and substance abuse,” said the CDC’s Debra Karch, who led the study.

While police and politicians may stress crime-fighting to try to lower murder rates, the study suggests that equipping people to better handle conflict may be more effective.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Personal conflicts biggest cause of murders in U.S.

The first systematic, in-depth look at murder and suicide in the United States shows that personal conflicts are the major factor in such deaths, as opposed to random violence or other crime.

www.reuters.com

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The first systematic, in-depth look at murder and suicide in the United States shows that personal conflicts are the major factor in such deaths, as opposed to random violence or other crime.

Guns are the most commonly used weapons in both murders and suicides, according to the analysis of data from 2007 released on Thursday by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

“The pattern that stands out the most is we see a lot of intimate partner violence, mental health problems and substance abuse,” said the CDC’s Debra Karch, who led the study.

While police and politicians may stress crime-fighting to try to lower murder rates, the study suggests that equipping people to better handle conflict may be more effective.

Any "research" that groups homicide and suicide in trying to explore why is worthless. The driving forces are very different.

Suicide is driven by physical and mental health. Murder is driven by conflict.

There are a lot more suicides than homicides so when you lump them you see the causes of suicide driving the data even though they have very little to do with the causes of homicide.

 

[lpetrich]

Matthew Gertz on Twitter: "Great news everyone, "America's Crime Crisis" (trademark Fox News) is over!
All it took was Election Day eliminating the perceived political benefit of talking about crime all the time, go figure. (links)" / Twitter
Fox News had about 100 segments per week in early September, and it went up to nearly 200 just before the election. Then it dropped to a little over 70.

Noting Fox’s coverage of violent crime has dropped after the midterms | Media Matters for America

Fox was open in its strategy of using violent crime as a political cudgel against Democrats throughout the midterms. Driven in part by Fox host Tucker Carlson's calls for Republicans to run on the issue, the network engaged in a monthslong campaign to tie Democrats and the Biden administration to violent crime, often by highlighting specific incidents in “Democratic cities” and blaming progressive criminal justice reform for individual violent crimes.

...
Fox’s breathless political coverage of violent crime during the midterm period often ignored key context, such as the reality that crime statistics from red states were higher than those of blue states and that Democrats across the country at multiple levels of government made efforts to fund law enforcement and curtail violent crime. Instead, these segments often focused on attacking progressive district attorneys and candidates across the country.

Voting matters 11/28-12/6 🗳. on Twitter: "@MattGertz @mluckovichajc local news stations all crime all the time. Even though we're in ATL, if there's no crime they post "a woman beloved in her community was shot in her beauty salon during an attempted robbery" in another state. When they do it on TW I just post in replies NOT ATL lol. 1/" / Twitter
then
Voting matters 11/28-12/6 🗳. on Twitter: "@MattGertz @mluckovichajc They also won’t report good news, actually deleted the one tweet & took of their website homepage. Also “Student debt relief, some say it’s unfair” seg of ppl loving it, one guy obvs prompted says “well I guess some could think it’s unfair?” W/ GA runkff, keeping up the facades. (pic link)" / Twitter

 

[steve_bank]

It is not hyperbole and political fear mongering. At least here in western Washington.

Last week a 14 year old student shot a kid after a disute in the school, and a 15 year old accomplice was found trying to get the gun away on a bus.

This is not a rare exception.

It us chos. Students who do not know their ass from a hole in the ground say they don't want armed police in schools. They want mental health couselors and unarmed security trained in anti racism and de-escalation.

SRO school resource officers were ended in the area after the Floyd killing. One parent on camera claimed police in schools bully kids and create violence. Others now want SROs back.

During the riots against police there were claims police in neighborhoods incite crime. Get rid of police and let communities pilce themselves. Anarchy.

Programs some want would amount to one mental health professional per 200 students

If nothing has changed for the worse in our cultural foundation, IOW kids, why is there a growing demand for large scale mental health sesorces in schools? Nationally from the reporting.

 

[ZiprHead]

Last week a 14 year old student shot a kid after a disute in the school, and a 15 year old accomplice was found trying to get the gun away on a bus.

This is not a rare exception.

This is not a rare exception anywhere.