Breakdown In Civil Order

[prideandfall]

The outreach teams are useless.

What alternative strategy would you propose?

Round up all the homeless people and place them in "re-education camps", where they will be tuaght new skills like breaking rocks, and we, the regular people, never have to be confronted by them again.

But that defeats the purpose of the homeless within our society, so would be very counter productive.

The homeless (and more broadly, the poverty stricken) are crafted and curated by those with money and power to very specifically to be a gun pointed at the head of the working class:
"This could happen to you - we can take your home and your life away and turn you into one of these in a heartbeat. So don't ask for too much pay, don't get too riled up about what we're doing to you, don't expect a moderate standard of living while we gorge ourselves in excess."

If you took away the threat of being destitute and completely removed from the bounds of civil society, the teeming masses might start getting ideas about what they deserve and what they are owed.

 

[TSwizzle]

Chaos in Los Angeles. After much fanfare and $588m to build, the 6th Street Bridge opened two weeks ago. It has been the target of all kinds of vandalism and hijinks;

As a series of dangerous speed maneuvers continue on the new 6th Street Viaduct Bridge in downtown Los Angeles, speed bumps are being installed and Los Angeles Police Chief Michel Moore is urging the public to remain vigilant to help an already overwhelmed police force. Tuesday night LAPD shut down the bridge again in an effort to prevent crime. The closure will last "until further notice" due to illegal activity, LAPD tweeted.

CBS News

So now, the nimrods on the council want to close the bridge to traffic permanently. And; "The Los Angeles City Council's Public Works Committee recommended Wednesday that the council approve $706,000 to remove graffiti and provide other maintenance on the Sixth Street Bridge."

It has been open two weeks!!

 

[RVonse]

It is a bit silly. CEOs hate doing business in the states they do business in... therefore... it doesn't count. And Texas rules!

I mean I look at Ohio, where the GOP has been cutting taxes and services, and the jobs ain't coming. Even the right-wing JobsOhio thing that seemed more rife for potential abuse hasn't done particularly well, spending around $7k per job allegedly it helped get to the state. Ohio has a permanent rust belt, and now that the fracking boom is gone, that short spell of deruster is gone in Youngstown.

How much did Ohio have to pay to keep the sports teams, Sherwin Williams, Goodyear/Firesteone, and the like? Amazon owned warehouses, but that is much more about geography and Ohio's centered distance to lots of population.

Didn't I hear Biden crowing about giving money to Intel for a huge new chip plant in Columbus. Ohio about a month ago?

If true, I think that qualifies as good news for everyone. and is refreshing to hear something positive going on in America.

 

[Copernicus]

It is a bit silly. CEOs hate doing business in the states they do business in... therefore... it doesn't count. And Texas rules!

I mean I look at Ohio, where the GOP has been cutting taxes and services, and the jobs ain't coming. Even the right-wing JobsOhio thing that seemed more rife for potential abuse hasn't done particularly well, spending around $7k per job allegedly it helped get to the state. Ohio has a permanent rust belt, and now that the fracking boom is gone, that short spell of deruster is gone in Youngstown.

How much did Ohio have to pay to keep the sports teams, Sherwin Williams, Goodyear/Firesteone, and the like? Amazon owned warehouses, but that is much more about geography and Ohio's centered distance to lots of population.

Didn't I hear Biden crowing about giving money to Intel for a huge new chip plant in Columbus. Ohio about a month ago?

If true, I think that qualifies as good news for everyone. and is refreshing to hear something positive going on in America.

Then you had better hope that DeWine is right that Intel is just playing games by delaying it and scaling back plans. As always, Mitch McConnell is involved.

Ohio Governor DeWine says Intel delay on $20 billion chip plant is about ‘leverage’​

 

[Emily Lake]

Total aside but this little exchange made this thought pop into my head and I was somewhat tickled by it:
"Independent" is the political affiliation equivalent of being asked what kind of music you like and responding with "The Black Eyed Peas"

I disagree. Being independent is equivalent to saying "I like all sorts of different music in different contexts, I don't like being pressed into one genre"

 

[TSwizzle]

The Windy City sounds fun;

At least four people are dead and 35 others are wounded in weekend shootings across the city as of Saturday. Two of the victims are under the age of 18.

A teen is shot while attempting to break into a vehicle on the 1100 block of East 52nd Street Friday. Four to five males were attempting to break into a parked vehicle around 7:58 p.m. when a woman, 34, owner of the vehicle, confronted the offenders at which time one of the offenders pointed a gun at the victim, according to police. The woman is a CCL holder who discharged a handgun striking one of the offenders. The offender, a 13-year-old boy, was transported to Comers Children's Hospital by the Chicago Fire Department in fair condition with a gunshot wound to the neck area.

News

Result.

 

[Oleg]

The Windy City sounds fun;

At least four people are dead and 35 others are wounded in weekend shootings across the city as of Saturday. Two of the victims are under the age of 18.

A teen is shot while attempting to break into a vehicle on the 1100 block of East 52nd Street Friday. Four to five males were attempting to break into a parked vehicle around 7:58 p.m. when a woman, 34, owner of the vehicle, confronted the offenders at which time one of the offenders pointed a gun at the victim, according to police. The woman is a CCL holder who discharged a handgun striking one of the offenders. The offender, a 13-year-old boy, was transported to Comers Children's Hospital by the Chicago Fire Department in fair condition with a gunshot wound to the neck area.

News

Result.

Too bad her marksmanship was off.

 

[Politesse]

I would counter by likewise shitposting all the violent crimes that happen in prosperous Republican urban centers. But of course, that is impossible, as prosperous Republican urban centers do not exist.

Also, I'm confused. Isn't "private citizen murders kid who was trying to steal her car" the Republican prescription for how to deal with crime? What are you objecting to, here?

 

[Derec]

Also, I'm confused. Isn't "private citizen murders kid who was trying to steal her car" the Republican prescription for how to deal with crime? What are you objecting to, here?

The kid survived. And even if he had died, it would not be murder, but self defense. The robber threatened her with a gun. That makes use of deadly force both legally and morally allowable.

 

[Politesse]

Also, I'm confused. Isn't "private citizen murders kid who was trying to steal her car" the Republican prescription for how to deal with crime? What are you objecting to, here?

The kid survived. And even if he had died, it would not be murder, but self defense. The robber threatened her with a gun. That makes use of deadly force both legally and morally allowable.

So what are you complaining about? It sounds like your ideal of America is alive and well in Chicago.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Why is Chicago always mentioned in these threads? Yes, the murder rate in the city is relatively high, but it isn't the highest in the country. Not the top 10 (or top 20) per capita. It isn't even the highest per capita in the state of Illinois.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Total aside but this little exchange made this thought pop into my head and I was somewhat tickled by it:
"Independent" is the political affiliation equivalent of being asked what kind of music you like and responding with "The Black Eyed Peas"

I disagree. Being independent is equivalent to saying "I like all sorts of different music in different contexts, I don't like being pressed into one genre"

Yes, maybe 30 years ago. Since then, the Republicans have hugged hard to the right, the Democrats since Clinton have become very moderate.

There are three genres of politics in the US: Democrat, Republican, and fantasy (Libertarian). It is quite simple to have liberal views on some things, conservative views on others. But in the US... today... to say one is an "independent" really says, at best, "They don't care about politics and don't care to understand what is happening."

 

[TomC]

Why is Chicago always mentioned in these threads? Yes, the murder rate in the city is relatively high, but it isn't the highest in the country. Not the top 10 (or top 20) per capita. It isn't even the highest per capita in the state of Illinois.

I can't say for certain, but I think I know.

Chicago is big. It's had a gun violence problem for ages. It has tried mightily to deal with that problem. But the city leaders have a problem. Summed up in a word, it's "Indiana".

While Chicago has tried to stem gun violence, here in Indiana you can buy guns from vending machines in bars.* Chicago overlaps Indiana. So, despite the best efforts of Chicago officials to clamp down on the death and destruction it continues.
Chicago has become a sort of poster child for "Why strict gun control doesn't work."

Tom

*Hyperbolic, but all too close.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I understand the reasons for gun violence in Chicago, I'm asking why Chicago is the poster-child for American violence for the alt-right, when other cities have it beat per capita, including Baltimore, Cleveland, and even Peoria, Illinois. It reminds me of how MS-13 became one of the nation's largest threats in 2016... but it really hasn't been mentioned by the alt-right or even Trump since 2018.

 

[TomC]

It has tried mightily to deal with that problem.

I'm asking why Chicago is the poster-child for American violence for the alt-right,

I believe it's because Chicago has tried so hard to reduce gun violence with strict gun control laws. Those laws haven't been particularly effective.

The problem is that laws don't much apply to criminals. Indiana makes it easy for criminals to acquire firearms, while law abiding folk don't.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It has tried mightily to deal with that problem.

I'm asking why Chicago is the poster-child for American violence for the alt-right,

I believe it's because Chicago has tried so hard to reduce gun violence with strict gun control laws. Those laws haven't been particularly effective.

Can you demonstrate that, Chicago's "strict gun control laws" aren't "working", though? First, their strict laws were found unconstitutional in 2010, so they haven't been anywhere near as strict for over a decade.

In 1982 Chicago made with a handgun ban. While the rate of murders didn't drop immediately, there was a drop in the 90s. In 2010, that ban was found unconstitutional by SCOTUS... and then in a couple years, murders have shifted back up. This certainly isn't proof of causation, but it seems that with the restriction of weapons being dropped locally, and outside of locally the small restrictions were lessened beyond those (Indeed, guns are sprouting legs and coming from outside the state, with about 3 in 5 guns coming from outside the state), there has been an increase of gun violence... which is evidence that it is the reduction of gun laws, both local and national that is leading to increases in gun related murders.

In other words, Chicago has seen an INCREASE of gun related murders since SCOTUS ended Chicago's gun ban. So from a surficial look at it, reduced gun restrictions leads to more gun murders.

 

[TomC]

Can you demonstrate that, Chicago's "strict gun control laws" aren't "working", though?

I was answering the question "Why is Chicago the poster child for American violence from the alt right?" I believe it's because they've instituted strict gun control legislation.
Tom

ETA ~Maybe I need to clarify. If some other big city, like Miami or Seattle, instituted strict gun control laws and they greatly reduced gun violence, why would the gunloving alt-right want to talk about them? They wouldn't. They'd keep hammering on Chicago.~

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Can you demonstrate that, Chicago's "strict gun control laws" aren't "working", though?

I was answering the question "Why is Chicago the poster child for American violence from the alt right?" I believe it's because they've instituted strict gun control legislation...

...in 1982, and that legislation was banned in 2010. It is currently the year 2022, and gun related murders have increased since the ban was found unconstitutional.

 

[Testy Calibrate]

It's a bit of a joke in Portland Oregon how right wing relatives call family here and inform us that our city is burning down and people can't go out in the streets anymore. They don't believe us when we say that isn't actually the case. Yes there is a homeless epidemic, but no worse than elsewhere. Yes there is gun violence, again, no worse than elsewhere. But the only thing that is 'shut down' is that most of the downtown workers work remotely now so downtown is fading substantially. That's an evolution of society that had precisely nothing to do with the other bits.

 

[TomC]

Can you demonstrate that, Chicago's "strict gun control laws" aren't "working", though?

I was answering the question "Why is Chicago the poster child for American violence from the alt right?" I believe it's because they've instituted strict gun control legislation...

...in 1982, and that legislation was banned in 2010. It is currently the year 2022, and gun related murders have increased since the ban was found unconstitutional.

You think Chicago's efforts ended in 1982?

You ain't from around here, are ya boy.
Tom