• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

Breakdown In Civil Order

Despite what your "news sources" may have told you, mass theft like this has never been legal or tolerated in San Francisco. Shoplifting rings like this have been dealt with before, and these people will eventually be caught as well.
 
Despite what your "news sources" may have told you, mass theft like this has never been legal or tolerated in San Francisco. Shoplifting rings like this have been dealt with before, and these people will eventually be caught as well.
My "news sources" for this post are channel 11 NBC on my TV. Neither I or the "news sources" said it was ever legal. As far as tolerated, much mass theft IS tolerated, at least up to <$1000 in product value. Let's hope they do catch these thieves, and things improve for SF. I would like to see London Breed make some progress on this nonsense. I had high hopes for her coming in, but so far, cracking down on the crime seems to be moving a bit slow.
 
Perhaps you can point to an affluent Republican city, equivalent to San Francisco in wealth and wealth disparity, that has no trouble with shoplifting rings. Oh, wait, you can't. Because there are no affluent Republican cities.
 
I have yet to see a concrete, plausible Republican plan for how to end the end practice of shoplifting.
Actually prosecute shoplifters.

And get rid of pro-crime DAs like Chesa.
Okay, so we send police to guard every store, and every accused shoplifter stands trial for a crime. If found guilty, every shoplifter is charged with a misdemeanor and chooses between six months in jail or a $1000 fine (the current maximum penalty for the crime). Then, somehow, shoplifting never happens again.

Is that the plan?

I don't count "elect a Republican" as a plan, grasping at power for power's sake is your party's only real goal under the Trump regime and everyone knows that. But I'm more concerned with how the party actually wants to run things. I want to know what the proposed policy of your preferred replacement would be if I'm going to vote to displace the DA. Who are you nominating, and what would they do?
 
Then, somehow, shoplifting never happens again.
The goal is never for crime to "never happen again" but rather to reduce it. By actually prosecuting criminals there is a deterrence that simply does not exist when shoplifting is a virtually risk-free way to make a bunch of money.
 
Then, somehow, shoplifting never happens again.
The goal is never for crime to "never happen again" but rather to reduce it. By actually prosecuting criminals there is a deterrence that simply does not exist when shoplifting is a virtually risk-free way to make a bunch of money.
So the plan is:

No additional police are involved, but every accused shoplifter stands trial for a crime. If found guilty, every shoplifter is charged with a misdemeanor and chooses between six months in jail or a $1000 fine (the current maximum penalty for the crime). Then, somehow, shoplifting is reduced slightly.

Yes?
 
Ron Johnson’s misleading citation of data to back his ‘concern’ about BLM protesters

"Out of 7,750 protests last summer associated with BLM and Antifa, 570 turned into violent riots that killed 25 people and caused $1- $2 billion of property damage. That’s why I would have been more concerned.”

— Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.), in a statement, March 13
While he did not identify the source of his information in his statement, in a March 15 Wall Street Journal op-ed defending his remarks, Johnson confirmed that first set of numbers came from a study by the Armed Conflict Location & Event Data Project (ACLED), a nonprofit data collection, analysis and crisis mapping project. The property damage figures are from a different source.
...
“The specific ‘570’ number he referred to was the total number of all violent or destructive demonstrations recorded in the U.S. between May and August 2020, not just events that may have been linked to the Black Lives Matter movement,” Jones said. “Ultimately, ACLED recorded more than 10,300 demonstrations associated with the BLM movement in the U.S. during all of last year. It was an overwhelmingly peaceful movement: The vast majority of events — 94 percent — involved no violent or destructive activity.”

(Note that Johnson was using an outdated figure of 7,750 protests.)

Johnson jumped to the conclusion that the violent riots were the fault of BLM or antifa protesters. But that’s not the case either. ACLED’s data does not say that at all. In fact, the violence may have been more the result of police behavior than the actions of demonstrators. Thus it is misleading to frame all of these events as “BLM riots,” Jones said.

“Due to methodological and source information constraints, ACLED does not systematically code the perpetrator or instigator in events that do turn violent or destructive, so it would be inaccurate to say that the remainder were ‘BLM riots,’ ” Jones said. “ACLED data indicate that BLM-linked demonstrations faced much higher levels of police intervention and force than other types of demonstrations, for example, and in many of these cases police took a heavy-handed approach to break up the protests, prompting clashes with demonstrators and escalating the events into violence. Additionally, in some cases, violent or destructive behavior may have broken out as a result of aggressive intervention by counterdemonstrators or nonstate actors like militia groups, and BLM-linked demonstrations were also targeted in dozens of car-ramming attacks throughout the year.”

ACLED also recorded in 2020 that more than 2,350 right-wing demonstrations took place across more than 1,070 locations in all 50 states and Washington, D.C. But the police response was different.

“Over 9% of all BLM-linked demonstrations — or nearly one in 10 events — were met with intervention by police or other authorities, compared to just 4% of right-wing demonstrations,” a February ACLED report said. “When responding to BLM-linked demonstrations, authorities used force more than 51% of the time, compared to just 33% for right-wing demonstrations.”

A similar issue exists with Johnson’s citation of 25 deaths from the riots. That number comes from a Guardian analysis of ACLED’s database as of October, which found that at least 11 Americans were killed while participating in political demonstrations and another 14 have died in other incidents linked to political unrest.

“The [25] figure includes the Kyle Rittenhouse shootings, for example, as well as a shooting classified as an act of ‘violent far-right’ domestic terrorism by the Center for Strategic and International Studies,” Jones noted. “So it is incorrect to say that ‘BLM and antifa … riots … killed 25 people.’ ”

Another one of the deaths was actually at a “patriot rally,” not a BLM event. “Lee Keltner, a navy veteran who made custom western hats, was shot after a ‘patriot rally’ in Denver on 10 October,” the Guardian reported. “Video and photographs of the incident appear to show Keltner slapping a security guard for a local news crew, who responds by pulling out a gun and shooting him.”

Some demonstrators died when cars drove through or rammed into crowds of BLM protesters. “Summer Taylor, a Black Lives Matter protester who worked in a veterinary clinic, was killed in such an incident in Seattle,” the Guardian said. “So was Robert Forbes, a black protester from Bakersfield whose sister recalled him demonstrating decades earlier over the brutal police beating of Rodney King. In St Louis, Barry Perkins, a father of two, was killed after being dragged and run over by a FedEx truck during a protest in May.”

The list of 25 deaths also includes two California law enforcement officers killed by an alleged anti-government “boogaloo” extremist.

In other words, Johnson carelessly suggests the BLM and antifa demonstrations are the cause of 25 deaths, but the list cites numerous examples of deaths linked to far-right actions.
 
Holy Crap, I missed one from last night. This time a Nordstrum store in Walnut Creek, just a few miles from the Concord event. This is getting way out of control!

 
“So it is incorrect to say that ‘BLM and antifa … riots … killed 25 people.’ ”
What is true that if there hadn't been months of #BLM/Antifa rioting those people would be alive. Rittenhouse for example would not have had to defend himself if not for Kenosha rioting, looting and burning.

Some demonstrators died when cars drove through or rammed into crowds of BLM protesters. “Summer Taylor, a Black Lives Matter protester who worked in a veterinary clinic, was killed in such an incident in Seattle,” the Guardian said.
The driver wasn't a right-winger though. He isn't even white - he is a black man from Eritrea and he maintains it was an accident.
Dawit Kelete: Accused driver pleads not guilty in death of I-5 protester

What this shows though is the danger and stupidity of blocking an interstate highway for a protest.

“So was Robert Forbes, a black protester from Bakersfield whose sister recalled him demonstrating decades earlier over the brutal police beating of Rodney King.
What evidence is there that he was targeted or that the driver was a right-winger? Just being run over proves jack-shit, other than that it is dangerous to play in the street.
That In St Louis, Barry Perkins, a father of two, was killed after being dragged and run over by a FedEx truck during a protest in May.”
Also not a "right-wing action". What happened was that Berry Perkins and his #BLM buddies were looting the FedEx truck and Berry was
accidentally run over when the truck tried to drive away. No truck looting, no dead Barry. He can't blame anybody but himself.

The list of 25 deaths also includes two California law enforcement officers killed by an alleged anti-government “boogaloo” extremist.
Link to that case? I am not convinced that (unlike Proud Boys) the Boogaloos are even a real group. Even their name sound unlikely for a real group as opposed to some kind of parody.

In other words, Johnson carelessly suggests the BLM and antifa demonstrations are the cause of 25 deaths, but the list cites numerous examples of deaths linked to far-right actions.
And yet the examples listed by the article do not prove to be "far-right actions".

Note that even in cases where people were not directly killed by #BLMers, the riots #BLMers started created the dangerous situation that led to loss of life.

Also, the writer neglects to mention cases where #BLMers directly killed people. What about Secoriea Turner, the 8 year old girl murdered by #BLMers who took over the site of the Atlanta Wendy's they burned down? Or David Dorn, a retired police captain murdered in St. Louis by a #BLM rioter. Among others.
 
Holy Crap, I missed one from last night. This time a Nordstrum store in Walnut Creek, just a few miles from the Concord event. This is getting way out of control!
It is. Hopefully the get prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
 
Holy Crap, I missed one from last night. This time a Nordstrum store in Walnut Creek, just a few miles from the Concord event. This is getting way out of control!


Yeah, I was pretty shocked by that one. I happen to know the store in question pretty well, I often used their bathroom when I was working next door at a popcorn stand during my teenage years. Horrying assault, dozens of people involved with serious injuries committed on the staff. Could easily have been me, a few years ago.

That said, the police arrested three people at the scene, at gunpoint, and are urgently hunting down the rest. Dozens of police units responded, the first arriving less than two minutes after the first emergency call. Those found are going to jail for years, not months, on account of the severity of their crime which goes well beyond mere shoplifting. Just what more do you want them to do, execute the offenders in the street like Russian mafia?
 
No additional police are involved,
Says who? More police would be good. As would changing the laws by repealing prop 47.
Okay, so you want to have "more police" (how many, in what departments, and how they should be deployed?) and the repeal of Prop 47. Every accused shoplifter stands trial for a crime. If found guilty, every shoplifter is charged with a misdemeanor and chooses between six months in jail or a $1000 fine (the current maximum penalty for the crime). Then, somehow, shoplifting is reduced slightly.

Is this correct?
 
Back
Top Bottom