Brexit has happened

[Keith&Co.]

Is there anything more absurd than a grocery shortage without a food supply shortage?!

Johnny Carson once joked about the coming toilet paper shortage which causes a run on toilet paper very similar to last year's shortage. That was one joke on Monday, with the rest of the week him apologizing to the country for causing it.

But even that wasn't as absurd as a national shortage on TP in reaction to a respiratory ailment....

 

[Swammerdami]

I think it's too easy of an explanation. It's too self congratulatory. Labelling your political opponents as gullible fools unable to think for themselves is a bit arrogant IMHO. Perhaps there's another explanation?

I'm not sure what "it" refers to. (Is it hard to edit or snip a quote to call attention to a relevant antecedent?) But the claims about income-vote correlation are taken from Pew Research surveys. It almost sounds as though you prefer your own unsubstantiated speculations over facts.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think it's too easy of an explanation. It's too self congratulatory. Labelling your political opponents as gullible fools unable to think for themselves is a bit arrogant IMHO. Perhaps there's another explanation?

I'm not sure what "it" refers to. (Is it hard to edit or snip a quote to call attention to a relevant antecedent?) But the claims about income-vote correlation are taken from Pew Research surveys. It almost sounds as though you prefer your own unsubstantiated speculations over facts.

The Brits were simply lied to by the Boris Johnsons out there. Johnson immediately walked back almost all the "good" of Brexit. Sadly the Liberal opposition in England are a bunch of idiots. And of course, there was under the scenes pushes by others in favor of Brexit as it'd weaken the EU.

 

[bilby]

... The mistake the political elites did was that they failed to listen to what the working class were saying. They took them for granted for too long. The Brexit referendum wasn't about Brexit. It was a referendum on the people's confidence with their leaders. They got a much needed wake up call. Yes, it was a shame that this led to leaving the EU of all things. But it is what it is. I see Trump being voted into power in USA the same kind of thing. If you don't take the impoverished uneducated grey masses seriously for long enough, they will rise up and do dumb shit.

In general I think these kinds of things act to keep politicians on their toes. That's not necessarily a bad thing, in the long run.

Your reference to "impoverished uneducated grey masses" may apply, weakly, to the Brexit vote, but it doesn't fit the facts of the 2016 U.S. election: Clinton won among those with less than $50,000 income by a large margin. (The above-$100,000 vote was split almost evenly. Trump's win came from the middle-income group. You are right about the "uneducated" though: Clinton won ALL income groups among college graduates.)

I think the big divide in both elections derived from Truth vs Lies. In the Brave New Information Age, Winston Churchill's adage applies: "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." Truth-tellers just can't keep up with the lying propaganda which has taken over social media and the air-waves.


It's interesting how the American vote demographics have shifted just in a few decades. In the mid-20th century, income was the best single predictor of the D-R split; by the late-20th and early-21st century, church-going was the best single predictor for white voters! Today, the best single predictor for white voters is education level.

I think it's too easy of an explanation. It's too self congratulatory. Labelling your political opponents as gullible fools unable to think for themselves is a bit arrogant IMHO. Perhaps there's another explanation?

No other explanation is as well supported by the data. Certainly not in the case of the Brexit vote.

 

[bilby]

Well, there's still more than four months to the end of the extension to the extended extension of the transition period, and already the Army are being brought in to keep the supermarkets from running out of food.

Anyone tired of all the winning yet?

View attachment 34797

Isn't it less supply and more distribution? Regardless, it doesn't look good.

PM Johnson's "Let it (the Pandemic) go" plan has done marvelously at spreading the virus, which sidelined drivers for trucks (called lorry's by the Brits for some reason). Again, this is one of those, well if you are vax'd, why should you care issues. Well, we cared and now there are gaps on the grocery shelves, because the food that should be on them, hasn't been delivered. I'm noticing gaps growing again state side in Ohio. Frozen waffles and confectionaries apparently are stuck in customs or something.

But you know, freedom is awesome. The freedom to wait for food to be delivered is sweet!

Is there anything more absurd than a grocery shortage without a food supply shortage?!

The Covid "pingdemic" is a desperate propaganda tactic, designed to conceal the fact that the problem is Brexit.

And it's a supply problem - not of produce, but of labour. Specifically, blue-collar labour.

The EU depends on free movement of workers, with the middle class white-collar workforce in the UK, Germany and France being supported by a working class of tradesmen from Eastern and Southern Europe. Brexit sent away all those Eastern Europeans from the UK, and it turns out that having them 'over here stealing our jobs' was far better than having them over there not doing those jobs.

Almost nobody in England is ready, willing and able to pick fruit or harvest vegetables, but that's a minor issue as the UK largely depends on imports for her food supply anyway.

The big issues are in the skilled blue-collar sector. Tradesmen such as plumbers and electricians cannot be created overnight; And the UK hasn't had enough home grown skilled tradesmen for decades.

But where the shortage is most pressing and noticeable is haulage. The UK depended on European truck drivers, and Brexit made commercial driving to and from the UK undesirable on many levels, and commercial driving within the UK illegal for non UK residents.

The UK has an estimated shortage of 100,000 truck drivers, and this shortage cannot be explained by Covid - Germany, France, Belgium, The Netherlands, Spain, Italy, etc., all have Covid, but none have this problem.

The problem is that when you 'send them back where they came from', you can no longer depend on them to work for you.

And there are few people in the UK who want to do such a horrible job for anything close to the wages on offer, and even those who can be incentivised to do so by increasing wages and handing out bonuses are not able to start at once - it takes weeks or months to get a license, and at least a couple of years to get the experience and skills to do the job well enough to be useful and profitable to an employer.

The only viable solution is to import skilled drivers (and other trades - a shortage of plumbers and electricians isn't as visible or as urgent, but it's nevertheless a significant problem). They won't come from the EU, because they're not allowed to - the Home Office refuses to add truck drivers to the working visa categories that would allow it, and because even if they did, it's easier for EU citizens to get work in (for example) Germany, and the pay and conditions are the same or better there. So ultimately the UK has now got to choose between serious shortages of essential workers, or mass immigration mostly from non-EU countries - which is EXACTLY what the dumb shit Brexit voters and the dumb shit government they elected are most adamantly opposed to.

What a clusterfuck. If only someone had mentioned back in 2016 that it might not all be easy and glorious.

 

[TomC]

So, how are things doing on the border between Irish Ireland and GB Ireland? That looked like a big problem to me.
Tom

 

[bilby]

So, how are things doing on the border between Irish Ireland and GB Ireland? That looked like a big problem to me.
Tom

There's no border.

Indeed, the Belfast (Good Friday) Agreement, underwritten by the USA and the EU, and signed by the UK and Ireland, makes it illegal for there to be such a border.

The problem is that Brexit therefore requires a border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK, and the UK (who agreed to enact exactly that border as a part of the Withdrawal Agreement, the Northern Ireland Protocol) are dragging their feet on implementing it. They have until the end of the year to complete the process, but are already delinquent in some of their responsibilities under the Agreement, and are way behind schedule in building the required infrastructure, with the EU (and the US) maintaining the pressure on Westminster to comply.

Expect a UK/US trade deal to be a non-starter until these Irish Sea border checks are implemented; We can also expect to see EU sanctions against the UK if they are non-compliant by the end of the year.

The UK government have characterised EU insistence that they comply with the agreement they helped write, and then signed into law, as 'unsustainable', so who knows how far it will go. The DUP and their supporters already showed willingness to use violence to protest against this border, so further violence isn't out of the question.

UK Brexit negotiator David Frost recently characterised EU insistence on the UK meeting her commitments under the protocol as 'excessively legally purist", which is my future go-to defence in court. Apparently expecting people to do what they are legally obligated to do, and explicitly agreed in writing to do, is unreasonable.

Watch this space.


ETA If the Northern Ireland Protocol looks vaguely familiar, that's because it's practically indistinguishable from Theresa May's proposed 'Backstop', the existence of which was so unpalatable to the hard Brexit camp that she was deposed and replaced by Boris Johnson - whose "new" protocol is only significantly different in that it isn't a temporary arrangement, but rather is of indefinite duration; Essentially, they dropped May because her solution to the impossible Northern Ireland problem wasn't acceptable, and her replacement enacted it anyway - but apparently in the belief that crossing his fingers behind his back would allow him to ignore it once he had signed.

 

[bilby]

The Covid "pingdemic" is a desperate propaganda tactic, designed to conceal the fact that the problem is Brexit.

And it's a supply problem - not of produce, but of labour. Specifically, blue-collar labour.

The EU depends on free movement of workers, with the middle class white-collar workforce in the UK, Germany and France being supported by a working class of tradesmen from Eastern and Southern Europe. Brexit sent away all those Eastern Europeans from the UK, and it turns out that having them 'over here stealing our jobs' was far better than having them over there not doing those jobs.

Almost nobody in England is ready, willing and able to pick fruit or harvest vegetables, but that's a minor issue as the UK largely depends on imports for her food supply anyway.

The big issues are in the skilled blue-collar sector. Tradesmen such as plumbers and electricians cannot be created overnight; And the UK hasn't had enough home grown skilled tradesmen for decades.

But where the shortage is most pressing and noticeable is haulage. The UK depended on European truck drivers, and Brexit made commercial driving to and from the UK undesirable on many levels, and commercial driving within the UK illegal for non UK residents.

The UK has an estimated shortage of 100,000 truck drivers, and this shortage cannot be explained by Covid - Germany, France, Belgium, The Netherlands, Spain, Italy, etc., all have Covid, but none have this problem.

The problem is that when you 'send them back where they came from', you can no longer depend on them to work for you.

And there are few people in the UK who want to do such a horrible job for anything close to the wages on offer, and even those who can be incentivised to do so by increasing wages and handing out bonuses are not able to start at once - it takes weeks or months to get a license, and at least a couple of years to get the experience and skills to do the job well enough to be useful and profitable to an employer.

The only viable solution is to import skilled drivers (and other trades - a shortage of plumbers and electricians isn't as visible or as urgent, but it's nevertheless a significant problem). They won't come from the EU, because they're not allowed to - the Home Office refuses to add truck drivers to the working visa categories that would allow it, and because even if they did, it's easier for EU citizens to get work in (for example) Germany, and the pay and conditions are the same or better there. So ultimately the UK has now got to choose between serious shortages of essential workers, or mass immigration mostly from non-EU countries - which is EXACTLY what the dumb shit Brexit voters and the dumb shit government they elected are most adamantly opposed to.

What a clusterfuck. If only someone had mentioned back in 2016 that it might not all be easy and glorious.

So somewhat like the shortage in landscaping and other fields in the US when Trump went bonkers on the Southern border.

Pretty much. But with the added impact that the migration was 100% lawful and legitimate before Brexit, and there's no significant desire amongst the former foreign workers to stay unlawfully, because there's still plenty of similar (but lawful) opportunity for them in Germany, France and the Low Countries. Imagine how difficult it would have been to find a landscaper in Texas during that time if the California-Mexico border had been completely open, and working in CA completely lawful for Mexicans, at that time.

Truck drivers used to bring freight across the Channel, then do a few shorter local pickups and deliveries within the UK, before collecting a load for export and taking it back across the Channel. That gave them flexibility in working hours to minimise waiting while loaded, and let them earn better wages than were available in other parts of the EU.

Now, they can bring a load across the Channel (customs inspections at this point are supposed to start next year); They cannot pick up goods and drop them within the UK, without a work permit or working visa (which are not currently being issued by the Home Office), so they then either return across the Channel empty (with possible delays at customs), or pick up a load for export, with definite delays at customs. Trucks bound for the EU also need a new permit to enter the county of Kent, that can only be issued once all export documentation is in order.

Essentially it now takes many times as long to do less than half the paid work, and a stack of documentation is needed if any freight is exported, where little or none was required before.

The UK government has avoided the predicted truck jams in Kent, by making the drivers wait elsewhere; This looks better on the TV news, but doesn't actually make life easier for exporters. And most EU drivers are paid by the km, so time spent waiting for paperwork and customs clearances is a dead loss to them.

Unsurprisingly, few drivers will accept such work if any alternative routes, entirely within the EU, are available.

ETA: Since Brexit, UK border controls have been draconian and difficult to navigate. Here is a story of a Polish truck driver, who wanted to take advantage of the increased wages due to the driver shortage in the UK: https://kierowcyhgv.uk/en/news/2221-polish-truck-driver-deported-for-illegally-traveling-to-work-in-england

And then the same government that established these border controls wonders why these drivers choose not to come to the UK.

 

[TomC]

So, how are things doing on the border between Irish Ireland and GB Ireland? That looked like a big problem to me.
Tom

There's no border.

Indeed, the Belfast (Good Friday) Agreement, underwritten by the USA and the EU, and signed by the UK and Ireland, makes it illegal for there to be such a border.

The problem is that Brexit therefore requires a border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK, and the UK (who agreed to enact exactly that border as a part of the Withdrawal Agreement, the Northern Ireland Protocol) are dragging their feet on implementing it. They have until the end of the year to complete the process, but are already delinquent in some of their responsibilities under the Agreement, and are way behind schedule in building the required infrastructure, with the EU (and the US) maintaining the pressure on Westminster to comply.

Expect a UK/US trade deal to be a non-starter until these Irish Sea border checks are implemented; We can also expect to see EU sanctions against the UK if they are non-compliant by the end of the year.

The UK government have characterised EU insistence that they comply with the agreement they helped write, and then signed into law, as 'unsustainable', so who knows how far it will go. The DUP and their supporters already showed willingness to use violence to protest against this border, so further violence isn't out of the question.

UK Brexit negotiator David Frost recently characterised EU insistence on the UK meeting her commitments under the protocol as 'excessively legally purist", which is my future go-to defence in court. Apparently expecting people to do what they are legally obligated to do, and explicitly agreed in writing to do, is unreasonable.

Watch this space.


ETA If the Northern Ireland Protocol looks vaguely familiar, that's because it's practically indistinguishable from Theresa May's proposed 'Backstop', the existence of which was so unpalatable to the hard Brexit camp that she was deposed and replaced by Boris Johnson - whose "new" protocol is only significantly different in that it isn't a temporary arrangement, but rather is of indefinite duration; Essentially, they dropped May because her solution to the impossible Northern Ireland problem wasn't acceptable, and her replacement enacted it anyway - but apparently in the belief that crossing his fingers behind his back would allow him to ignore it once he had signed.

OK. The real answer is yet another British cluster fuck?

I don't really have any dog in this fight. Other than my country was founded to escape British rule in the 18th century and most of my ancestors fled here to escape British rule of Ireland in the 19th century.

But it does seem that Brits, as a whole, just can't wrap their minds and culture around the fact that, regardless of Queen Victoria's opinion, the sun has definitely set on the British Empire.
Tom

 

[bilby]

So, how are things doing on the border between Irish Ireland and GB Ireland? That looked like a big problem to me.
Tom

There's no border.

Indeed, the Belfast (Good Friday) Agreement, underwritten by the USA and the EU, and signed by the UK and Ireland, makes it illegal for there to be such a border.

The problem is that Brexit therefore requires a border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK, and the UK (who agreed to enact exactly that border as a part of the Withdrawal Agreement, the Northern Ireland Protocol) are dragging their feet on implementing it. They have until the end of the year to complete the process, but are already delinquent in some of their responsibilities under the Agreement, and are way behind schedule in building the required infrastructure, with the EU (and the US) maintaining the pressure on Westminster to comply.

Expect a UK/US trade deal to be a non-starter until these Irish Sea border checks are implemented; We can also expect to see EU sanctions against the UK if they are non-compliant by the end of the year.

The UK government have characterised EU insistence that they comply with the agreement they helped write, and then signed into law, as 'unsustainable', so who knows how far it will go. The DUP and their supporters already showed willingness to use violence to protest against this border, so further violence isn't out of the question.

UK Brexit negotiator David Frost recently characterised EU insistence on the UK meeting her commitments under the protocol as 'excessively legally purist", which is my future go-to defence in court. Apparently expecting people to do what they are legally obligated to do, and explicitly agreed in writing to do, is unreasonable.

Watch this space.


ETA If the Northern Ireland Protocol looks vaguely familiar, that's because it's practically indistinguishable from Theresa May's proposed 'Backstop', the existence of which was so unpalatable to the hard Brexit camp that she was deposed and replaced by Boris Johnson - whose "new" protocol is only significantly different in that it isn't a temporary arrangement, but rather is of indefinite duration; Essentially, they dropped May because her solution to the impossible Northern Ireland problem wasn't acceptable, and her replacement enacted it anyway - but apparently in the belief that crossing his fingers behind his back would allow him to ignore it once he had signed.

OK. The real answer is yet another British cluster fuck?

I don't really have any dog in this fight. Other than my country was founded to escape British rule in the 18th century and most of my ancestors fled here to escape British rule of Ireland in the 19th century.

But it does seem that Brits, as a whole, just can't wrap their minds and culture around the fact that, regardless of Queen Victoria's opinion, the sun has definitely set on the British Empire.
Tom

Pretty much. With the caveat that it's more the English Tories and the Northern Irish Unionists who hold that bizarre belief in the long-vanished empire. The rest of the UK population are less crazy, but (according to the 2016 vote) have slightly less political clout than the flag-shaggers.

The situation regarding movement of goods is simple. Either you need:
A) Complete freedom of movement between the UK and the EU (no Brexit); Or
B) A customs border between Ireland and Northern Ireland (no Good Friday Agreement); Or
C) A customs border between Northern Ireland and Great Britain (no united United Kingdom)

It's impossible to have none of these; By definition, in order to avoid any two, the third must apply.

All are unacceptable to the Conservative Party. It is the "democratic will of the people" that none of these things should exist, and the mere physical impossibility of that desired situation isn't going to stand in the way of The Right Honourable Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, MP.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I think it's too easy of an explanation. It's too self congratulatory. Labelling your political opponents as gullible fools unable to think for themselves is a bit arrogant IMHO. Perhaps there's another explanation?

I'd hesitate to call it a failure of political elites. One important question to ask is do American politicians actually have tangible and complete control over the U.S. economy. And if the answer is no then U.S. history is actually a product of international politics, the international economy, and it's own electorate, not American politicians (or for Brexit it's politicians).

And usually what we see when an economy starts to decline are people becoming more susceptible to populists - those who deceive with a promise of a better life and free money.

So I don't think you can really pin this kind of thing on politicians, some nation-states just have a trajectory and it is what it is. Even more, there is an element of randomness - consider U.S. history if Donald Trump didn't exist, or if 9/11 didn't happen.

No politician controls the economy. That's always been a fantasy in politics. Politicians say they will create jobs. But smart people know they can't do that. Politicians can only wreck the economy or hobble it. They can't help it in any way. All they can do is get out of the way.

But I wasn't talking about the economy. I was talking about other stuff. Stuff like welfare and health care. This either fits the needs of the people or it doesn't. If people aren't getting what they need and their leaders go on an on about gender neutral toilets, the war on terror and global warming the people might not feel they're represented by competent people. Politicians love taking firm stands on things far into the future or which is abstract, so nobody can accuse them for failing. We need to constantly whip politicians back into line. I think this is what the Brexit referendum was

 

[bilby]

I think it's too easy of an explanation. It's too self congratulatory. Labelling your political opponents as gullible fools unable to think for themselves is a bit arrogant IMHO. Perhaps there's another explanation?

I'd hesitate to call it a failure of political elites. One important question to ask is do American politicians actually have tangible and complete control over the U.S. economy. And if the answer is no then U.S. history is actually a product of international politics, the international economy, and it's own electorate, not American politicians (or for Brexit it's politicians).

And usually what we see when an economy starts to decline are people becoming more susceptible to populists - those who deceive with a promise of a better life and free money.

So I don't think you can really pin this kind of thing on politicians, some nation-states just have a trajectory and it is what it is. Even more, there is an element of randomness - consider U.S. history if Donald Trump didn't exist, or if 9/11 didn't happen.

No politician controls the economy. That's always been a fantasy in politics. Politicians say they will create jobs. But smart people know they can't do that. Politicians can only wreck the economy or hobble it. They can't help it in any way. All they can do is get out of the way.

But I wasn't talking about the economy. I was talking about other stuff. Stuff like welfare and health care. This either fits the needs of the people or it doesn't. If people aren't getting what they need and their leaders go on an on about gender neutral toilets, the war on terror and global warming the people might not feel they're represented by competent people. Politicians love taking firm stands on things far into the future or which is abstract, so nobody can accuse them for failing. We need to constantly whip politicians back into line. I think this is what the Brexit referendum was

So the voters whipped the politicians back into line by giving them a blank cheque; A vote that mandated literally any future that didn't include membership of the EU?

Sounds like they did almost as good a job of bringing the politicians into line as they did at taking back control, funding the NHS, and stopping the refugees from arriving.

"Leave" was never an option. It was a stack of incompatible options wearing a trench coat, and it boiled down to authorising the Government to do whatever the fuck they pleased (as long as it could be spun as anti-EU).

It achieved the exact opposite of whipping the politicians into line. So if that was the intent, it was implemented with the overarching incompetence that has been the hallmark of brexit from day one.

 

[DrZoidberg]

No politician controls the economy. That's always been a fantasy in politics. Politicians say they will create jobs. But smart people know they can't do that. Politicians can only wreck the economy or hobble it. They can't help it in any way. All they can do is get out of the way.

But I wasn't talking about the economy. I was talking about other stuff. Stuff like welfare and health care. This either fits the needs of the people or it doesn't. If people aren't getting what they need and their leaders go on an on about gender neutral toilets, the war on terror and global warming the people might not feel they're represented by competent people. Politicians love taking firm stands on things far into the future or which is abstract, so nobody can accuse them for failing. We need to constantly whip politicians back into line. I think this is what the Brexit referendum was

So the voters whipped the politicians back into line by giving them a blank cheque; A vote that mandated literally any future that didn't include membership of the EU?

Sounds like they did almost as good a job of bringing the politicians into line as they did at taking back control, funding the NHS, and stopping the refugees from arriving.

"Leave" was never an option. It was a stack of incompatible options wearing a trench coat, and it boiled down to authorising the Government to do whatever the fuck they pleased (as long as it could be spun as anti-EU).

I'm not defending Brexit. I'm trying to explain it. The tools of control for the unwashed masses in a democracy is exceedingly blunt. The further away from the center of power, the more blunt it is. The success of any populistic political movement is a symptom of the political elite having lost the vote of confidence from the least powerful (in the democracy).

I see Brexit more like the people were going to vote no any anything, no matter what, until they get some sign that the political elite are listening to their needs more and taking them seriously.

Because, let's face it, being for Brexit is retarded. Those who were for Brexit had idiotic arguments. The entire movement was just dumb dumb dumb. This tells us something. Brexit wasn't about Brexit. It was about something else. It's interesting to speculate what it was really about. Which is what I'm doing now.

 

[bilby]

For anyone who thinks that Brexit 'has happened', and that the current problems are as bad as it's going to get, please note that on October 1st, the UK plans to (finally) introduce full border controls for imported animal products; And on January 1st, on all other imported goods, except 'phytosanitary' imports (essentially live animals and low risk plant products), which remain uncontrolled until March 1st, 2022. That's assuming that all of this isn't postponed again; However the legal and trade consequences of further delays could be even more damaging as the EU can refuse incoming UK goods if the UK doesn't apply these restrictions which are required by the Trade and Cooperation Agreement.

So, at the earliest, Brexit will have happened on March 1st, 2022. Because the UK government keep pushing back the date on which they "Take Back Control" of their borders from the EU.

Presumably these repeated postponements are to prevent excessive winning and jubilation, and to avoid embarrassing the rest of the world by showing what a huge success Brexit has been. Because nobody could possibly imagine that imposing controls on imports, in a nation that is completely dependent on them for survival, would be a disaster.

So far, the supply issues for British shops have been caused only by the changes to immigration and movement of workers, and changes to export regulations - Import regulations for goods traveling to the UK from the EU have yet to be affected.

Here is the official Dutch government advice (in English) for exporters who ship goods to the UK from the Netherlands: https://www.getreadyforbrexit.eu/en/at-the-uk-border-2/

Note that as of August 2021, the advice regarding the Mandatory Security Declarations (to be introduced on January 1st, 2022) is:

The exact requirements for these security declarations will be announced by the UK at a later date.

So that's reassuring.

 

[bilby]

 

[Keith&Co.]

Eugh.
The company maintains a presence in Faslane where we support the subs that carry the weapon systems we build. They're plum positions. A high salary, plus a cost of living pay adjustment, another pay adjustment for family separation if you go alone. It's usually a three year tour. Guys jockey for the positions as anyone comes back.

Today, my boss' boss' boss announced that thery're looking for volunteers, opening it up to anyone who wants to apply for the position.

Coworker thinks it's cool they are letting just anyone get the job.
All i can think of is 'all those bonuses...and they literally cannot PAY the usual crowd to go over there again.'

 

[bilby]

Eugh.
The company maintains a presence in Faslane where we support the subs that carry the weapon systems we build. They're plum positions. A high salary, plus a cost of living pay adjustment, another pay adjustment for family separation if you go alone. It's usually a three year tour. Guys jockey for the positions as anyone comes back.

Today, my boss' boss' boss announced that thery're looking for volunteers, opening it up to anyone who wants to apply for the position.

Coworker thinks it's cool they are letting just anyone get the job.
All i can think of is 'all those bonuses...and they literally cannot PAY the usual crowd to go over there again.'

Those guys just can't handle life in the Faslane.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Eugh.
The company maintains a presence in Faslane where we support the subs that carry the weapon systems we build. They're plum positions. A high salary, plus a cost of living pay adjustment, another pay adjustment for family separation if you go alone. It's usually a three year tour. Guys jockey for the positions as anyone comes back.

Today, my boss' boss' boss announced that thery're looking for volunteers, opening it up to anyone who wants to apply for the position.

Coworker thinks it's cool they are letting just anyone get the job.
All i can think of is 'all those bonuses...and they literally cannot PAY the usual crowd to go over there again.'

Those guys just can't handle life in the Faslane.

Ow! Oh, that's bad.
Still stealing it....

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

For anyone who thinks that Brexit 'has happened', and that the current problems are as bad as it's going to get, please note that on October 1st, the UK plans to (finally) introduce full border controls for imported animal products; And on January 1st, on all other imported goods, except 'phytosanitary' imports (essentially live animals and low risk plant products), which remain uncontrolled until March 1st, 2022. That's assuming that all of this isn't postponed again; However the legal and trade consequences of further delays could be even more damaging as the EU can refuse incoming UK goods if the UK doesn't apply these restrictions which are required by the Trade and Cooperation Agreement.

So, at the earliest, Brexit will have happened on March 1st, 2022. Because the UK government keep pushing back the date on which they "Take Back Control" of their borders from the EU.

Presumably these repeated postponements are to prevent excessive winning and jubilation, and to avoid embarrassing the rest of the world by showing what a huge success Brexit has been. Because nobody could possibly imagine that imposing controls on imports, in a nation that is completely dependent on them for survival, would be a disaster.

So far, the supply issues for British shops have been caused only by the changes to immigration and movement of workers, and changes to export regulations - Import regulations for goods traveling to the UK from the EU have yet to be affected.

Here is the official Dutch government advice (in English) for exporters who ship goods to the UK from the Netherlands: https://www.getreadyforbrexit.eu/en/at-the-uk-border-2/

Note that as of August 2021, the advice regarding the Mandatory Security Declarations (to be introduced on January 1st, 2022) is:

The exact requirements for these security declarations will be announced by the UK at a later date.

So that's reassuring.

We'll know Brexit is in effect because Johnson will retire that day, and the Labor Party will be allowed to walk into power... and suffer all the consequences... then the Tories can rescue England again.

 

[TomC]

For anyone who thinks that Brexit 'has happened', and that the current problems are as bad as it's going to get, please note that on October 1st, the UK plans to (finally) introduce full border controls for imported animal products; And on January 1st, on all other imported goods, except 'phytosanitary' imports (essentially live animals and low risk plant products), which remain uncontrolled until March 1st, 2022. That's assuming that all of this isn't postponed again; However the legal and trade consequences of further delays could be even more damaging as the EU can refuse incoming UK goods if the UK doesn't apply these restrictions which are required by the Trade and Cooperation Agreement.

So, at the earliest, Brexit will have happened on March 1st, 2022. Because the UK government keep pushing back the date on which they "Take Back Control" of their borders from the EU.

Presumably these repeated postponements are to prevent excessive winning and jubilation, and to avoid embarrassing the rest of the world by showing what a huge success Brexit has been. Because nobody could possibly imagine that imposing controls on imports, in a nation that is completely dependent on them for survival, would be a disaster.

So far, the supply issues for British shops have been caused only by the changes to immigration and movement of workers, and changes to export regulations - Import regulations for goods traveling to the UK from the EU have yet to be affected.

Here is the official Dutch government advice (in English) for exporters who ship goods to the UK from the Netherlands: https://www.getreadyforbrexit.eu/en/at-the-uk-border-2/

Note that as of August 2021, the advice regarding the Mandatory Security Declarations (to be introduced on January 1st, 2022) is:

The exact requirements for these security declarations will be announced by the UK at a later date.

So that's reassuring.

We'll know Brexit is in effect because Johnson will retire that day, and the Labor Party will be allowed to walk into power... and suffer all the consequences... then the Tories can rescue England again.

Again, let me say.
I don't know much about GB or the political landscape. I'm just asking.

Is it possible for Labour to campaign on a promise to hold another referendum?

"Knowing what you know now, do you want to Brexit?"

I honestly have no idea if GB is capable of that. But it seems an important question, years after the first referendum.
Tom