Can an agnostic pray?

[Treedbear]

Meditation is different than prayer. It's meant to be a way to learn to recognize one's sources of anxiety. So I need to find a quiet place, such as a church or library or wherever, so I can look at humanity and my place in it objectively. I don't know, maybe some people need the idea of a God to establish that perspective.

Treedbear,

I agree that meditation is different from prayer, also I agree with your general description re meditation.

For me, prayer is not about a "look at humanity and my place in it.." My prayer is directed differently, in a way that I cannot explain in words.

A.

Thank you, Philos. The idea I was trying to convey about meditation was contained in the one word you left out: "objectively". That is, eliminating the usual subjective noise that I usually experience helps me see the bigger picture for awhile. That's when new ideas can surface. But I wish you could explain what it is that prayer means to you and its purpose. I'm still curious about such things. Went to a Jehovah's Witness meeting a couple weeks ago for the first time. Friendly folks, but weird beliefs. They said I had to pray if I lacked faith. And I watched a couple new docu-dramas about Jesus over Easter. I'm sure that has nothing to do with what you mean. But lots of people I live and work with believe it.

 

[Bronzeage]

Most of us are able to keep these alternate speakers in their proper place, but occasionally things go wrong.

An internal monologue, which is really a dialogue is an intrinsic part of the human mind. This makes prayer, no matter to what, or whom, it is directed, a natural thing which we do, especially in times of stress.

And how does one solve this? Is there really an answer to help when that 'voice in your head' goes wrong?

There are effective medications for this problem.

 

[Philos]

Treedbear,

I agree that meditation is different from prayer, also I agree with your general description re meditation.

For me, prayer is not about a "look at humanity and my place in it.." My prayer is directed differently, in a way that I cannot explain in words.

A.

Thank you, Philos. The idea I was trying to convey about meditation was contained in the one word you left out: "objectively". That is, eliminating the usual subjective noise that I usually experience helps me see the bigger picture for awhile. That's when new ideas can surface. But I wish you could explain what it is that prayer means to you and its purpose. I'm still curious about such things. Went to a Jehovah's Witness meeting a couple weeks ago for the first time. Friendly folks, but weird beliefs. They said I had to pray if I lacked faith. And I watched a couple new docu-dramas about Jesus over Easter. I'm sure that has nothing to do with what you mean. But lots of people I live and work with believe it.

Treedbear,

There are so many misunderstandings in the world, and we try so hard to connect with each other, at least many of us do.

Mystics will tell us how certain experiences bring a sense of connection with all things, a feeling of 'objectivity' that I think you are describing. I have felt such a thing on rare occasions. My prayer is not like that. It is like leaving a personal ansaphone message for someone that I have always known very deeply but never met. It is recognizing that there is a home for me but I have mislaid the address. So I leave a message.

A.

 

[Treedbear]

...
Treedbear,

There are so many misunderstandings in the world, and we try so hard to connect with each other, at least many of us do.

... My prayer is not like that. It is like leaving a personal ansaphone message for someone that I have always known very deeply but never met. It is recognizing that there is a home for me but I have mislaid the address. So I leave a message.

A.

I never heard of prayer being like that. Reminded me of one of my favorite songs by Blind Faith though.

"Come down off your throne and leave your body alone. Somebody must change. You are the reason I've been waiting so long. Somebody holds the key. But I'm near the end, and just ain't got the time. And I'm wasted and I can't find my way home."

How it applies to me though ... I don't know. Perhaps I've never known anyone that deeply. I've been thinking I might fit somewhere on the Aspergers spectrum. (Not that there's anything wrong with that. )

 

[bilby]

...
Treedbear,

There are so many misunderstandings in the world, and we try so hard to connect with each other, at least many of us do.

... My prayer is not like that. It is like leaving a personal ansaphone message for someone that I have always known very deeply but never met. It is recognizing that there is a home for me but I have mislaid the address. So I leave a message.

A.

I never heard of prayer being like that. Reminded me of one of my favorite songs by Blind Faith though.

"Come down off your throne and leave your body alone. Somebody must change. You are the reason I've been waiting so long. Somebody holds the key. But I'm near the end, and just ain't got the time. And I'm wasted and I can't find my way home."

How it applies to me though ... I don't know. Perhaps I've never known anyone that deeply. I've been thinking I might fit somewhere on the Aspergers spectrum. (Not that there's anything wrong with that. )

There is no 'Aspergers Spectrum'. Asperger's ceased to exist with the 2013 publication of DSM-V, which rolls the former 'Asperger's Syndrome' into the broader diagnosis of 'Autism Spectrum Disorder'. I know this because I was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome shortly before it became impossible to be diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome.

Individuals with a well-established DSM-IV diagnoses of autistic disorder, Asperger's disorder, or pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified should be given the diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder

 

[Treedbear]

I never heard of prayer being like that. Reminded me of one of my favorite songs by Blind Faith though.

"Come down off your throne and leave your body alone. Somebody must change. You are the reason I've been waiting so long. Somebody holds the key. But I'm near the end, and just ain't got the time. And I'm wasted and I can't find my way home."

How it applies to me though ... I don't know. Perhaps I've never known anyone that deeply. I've been thinking I might fit somewhere on the Aspergers spectrum. (Not that there's anything wrong with that. )

There is no 'Aspergers Spectrum'. Asperger's ceased to exist with the 2013 publication of DSM-V, which rolls the former 'Asperger's Syndrome' into the broader diagnosis of 'Autism Spectrum Disorder'. I know this because I was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome shortly before it became impossible to be diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome.

Individuals with a well-established DSM-IV diagnoses of autistic disorder, Asperger's disorder, or pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified should be given the diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder

I knew there had to be a reason I liked you.

 

[Elixir]

I was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome shortly before it became impossible to be diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome.

Some people have all the luck!

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Whenever somebody says Aspergers syndrome, I always hear assburgers syndrome. For years I thought it meant having a big bottom from eating too much McDonald's.

 

[Philos]

...
Treedbear,

There are so many misunderstandings in the world, and we try so hard to connect with each other, at least many of us do.

... My prayer is not like that. It is like leaving a personal ansaphone message for someone that I have always known very deeply but never met. It is recognizing that there is a home for me but I have mislaid the address. So I leave a message.

A.

I never heard of prayer being like that. Reminded me of one of my favorite songs by Blind Faith though.

"Come down off your throne and leave your body alone. Somebody must change. You are the reason I've been waiting so long. Somebody holds the key. But I'm near the end, and just ain't got the time. And I'm wasted and I can't find my way home."

How it applies to me though ... I don't know. Perhaps I've never known anyone that deeply. I've been thinking I might fit somewhere on the Aspergers spectrum. (Not that there's anything wrong with that. )

Treedbear,

This is amazing! That song was my favourite on our set list when I was guitarist in a blues band. It is also the only song that I have ever sung and played on stage solo. Guess it was because I knew the words and licks so well. There was much applause, I remember.

I played it on a 12 string Simon & Patrick guitar, using DADGAD tuning.

You have given me a personal connection that I hadn't even noticed. Of course, the song and the prayer.

A.

 

[Treedbear]

I never heard of prayer being like that. Reminded me of one of my favorite songs by Blind Faith though.

"Come down off your throne and leave your body alone. Somebody must change. You are the reason I've been waiting so long. Somebody holds the key. But I'm near the end, and just ain't got the time. And I'm wasted and I can't find my way home."

How it applies to me though ... I don't know. Perhaps I've never known anyone that deeply. I've been thinking I might fit somewhere on the Aspergers spectrum. (Not that there's anything wrong with that. )

Treedbear,

This is amazing! That song was my favourite on our set list when I was guitarist in a blues band. It is also the only song that I have ever sung and played on stage solo. Guess it was because I knew the words and licks so well. There was much applause, I remember.

I played it on a 12 string Simon & Patrick guitar, using DADGAD tuning.

You have given me a personal connection that I hadn't even noticed. Of course, the song and the prayer.

A.

Then you probably know -

 

[Philos]

Treedbear,

Just saying thanks again for noticing the song/prayer connection. I'm going to think about this for some time, process the feelings.

Talk again later.

A.

 

[Treedbear]

Treedbear,

Just saying thanks again for noticing the song/prayer connection. I'm going to think about this for some time, process the feelings.

Talk again later.

A.

I've listened to that entire album more than any other over the past 40 years. Almost obscessively so. But then again I've had pancakes for breakfast everyday for the past 10 years. I used to play guitar in a number of garage bands in high school. Even had a strat. So I'm always impressed by great guitar work. And Steve Winwood is vocally at his best here, along with outstanding bass guitar by Ric Grech. Sea of Joy. Do What You Like. Well All Right. All had some inner struggle as the subject. The only one I can't relate to (despite Clapton's soaring guitar solo) is Presence of the Lord. It's just not a coherent composition to me.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Nobody can pray in America. We secular humanists have seen to that.

 

[Elixir]

Then you probably know -
View attachment 10835

He is now. But only because Frank Zappa died.

"Some people say Eric Clapton is the greatest guitarist in the world because he can play anything. I say I am the greatest guitarist in the world because I can play anything , but I DON'T!"
- Frank Zappa

(Yes he really said that)

Actually, IMHO the thing about Clapton isn't his straight ability to play stuff (which is impressive enough), it's the texture/inflection/vibrato ... total control with the left hand.

 

[Rayschism]

If prayer actually accomplishes something, then do it. Otherwise, it's a waste of time.

Just remember, God does also say no to some prayers.

Edit:

Edit

I just realized, that if your prayers are answered, then that could be considered proof of God's existence.

 

[Rayschism]

Then you probably know -
View attachment 10835

He is now. But only because Frank Zappa died.

"Some people say Eric Clapton is the greatest guitarist in the world because he can play anything. I say I am the greatest guitarist in the world because I can play anything , but I DON'T!"
- Frank Zappa

(Yes he really said that)

Actually, IMHO the thing about Clapton isn't his straight ability to play stuff (which is impressive enough), it's the texture/inflection/vibrato ... total control with the left hand.

ARGUMENT FROM GUITAR MASTERY
(1) Eric Clapton is God.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

From:

http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm

 

[Lion IRC]

...Just remember, God does also say no to some prayers.

I've also heard it's not a good idea to ask God to do something which He has asked us to do.

 

[DrZoidberg]

...Just remember, God does also say no to some prayers.

I've also heard it's not a good idea to ask God to do something which He has asked us to do.

Why would an omnipotent agent have to ask anybody for anything? Why not just do it himself? The mere fact that anybody at all prays to God is a failure on God's part. He should have been able to foresee it, and have fixed it in advance. For someone who is omnipotent, it's no extra effort

 

[Lion IRC]

That's what a child might say to an 'omnipotent' parent who asked them to tidy their room.
...the room lovingly provided by the parent.

 

[DrZoidberg]

That's what a child might say to an 'omnipotent' parent who asked them to tidy their room.
...the room lovingly provided by the parent.

ha ha. Then what's the point of praying at all? If all of life is an moral obstacle course, then why the Bible? Why Christianity and why priests? Why Jesus?

Your concept of God makes no sense.