Can We Discuss Sex & Gender / Transgender People?

[SigmatheZeta]

Bottom-line: there is clear neurobiological evidence for the argument that transgender people are probably born transgender, I just have to pee, I really strongly like people that bother to ask about my pronouns, and parental support can take a transgender kid's chances of attempted suicide from 60% down to 3%.

Objections seem to be, primarily:

A) semantics arguments, which are...semantics arguments...and

B) objections against critical theory, which I do not even really follow.

Does that about sum it up?

No.
What this looks like to me is a combination of mansplaining and male privilege.

What matters to you is all that matters. And you'll tell us why what you care about is important, while hand waving away the concerns of women, like @Emily Lake.

Does that about sum it up?
Tom

I don't think @Sigma has hand-waved away concerns.

@Loren Pechtel, @Jimmy Higgins, and @Jarhyn have though. It's the people who insist that sex doesn't matter, genitals are not a problem, and that women should just shut up and accept the risk of having people with penises in their spaces, because hey, what could go wrong? They're the ones hand-waving away concerns.

It's the male born-and-raised people who insist that because penises have never been a problem for them, and because they wouldn't be concerned to have a naked female in their midst, that the same thing should apply to women. They're the ones who see to think that the statistics for rape and sexual assaults are irrelevant, and that women just be crazy hysterical overreacting and all that.

As someone that is both queer and transgender,

Slight derail: what makes you queer?

Born male, attracted to guys. I am not sure "gay" applies, but if I called myself "straight," then that would be even more confusing. I am a transgender woman that is attracted to dudes. Any way you slice it, that's pretty queer.

 

[SigmatheZeta]

I don't think @Sigma has hand-waved away concerns.

You are way nicer than I am.

Tom

I'm female. I've been conditioned to be nice.

Conditioning, ew.

 

[Emily Lake]

I don't think @Sigma has hand-waved away concerns.

You are way nicer than I am.

Tom

I'm female. I've been conditioned to be nice.

Conditioning, ew.

Pretty much, yeah. TBF, I did type it with a bit of snarkiness, not completely serious. But it's there. It's dumb as fuck, and I got less of it than most women get... but it's still there, socially ingrained by years and years of the world constantly showing us how women are supposed to act and how men are supposed to act. Boys can't cry and girls shouldn't be demanding. It sucks for men and women.

 

[Metaphor]

Bottom-line: there is clear neurobiological evidence for the argument that transgender people are probably born transgender, I just have to pee, I really strongly like people that bother to ask about my pronouns, and parental support can take a transgender kid's chances of attempted suicide from 60% down to 3%.

Objections seem to be, primarily:

A) semantics arguments, which are...semantics arguments...and

B) objections against critical theory, which I do not even really follow.

Does that about sum it up?

No.
What this looks like to me is a combination of mansplaining and male privilege.

What matters to you is all that matters. And you'll tell us why what you care about is important, while hand waving away the concerns of women, like @Emily Lake.

Does that about sum it up?
Tom

I don't think @Sigma has hand-waved away concerns.

@Loren Pechtel, @Jimmy Higgins, and @Jarhyn have though. It's the people who insist that sex doesn't matter, genitals are not a problem, and that women should just shut up and accept the risk of having people with penises in their spaces, because hey, what could go wrong? They're the ones hand-waving away concerns.

It's the male born-and-raised people who insist that because penises have never been a problem for them, and because they wouldn't be concerned to have a naked female in their midst, that the same thing should apply to women. They're the ones who see to think that the statistics for rape and sexual assaults are irrelevant, and that women just be crazy hysterical overreacting and all that.

As someone that is both queer and transgender,

Slight derail: what makes you queer?

Born male, attracted to guys. I am not sure "gay" applies, but if I called myself "straight," then that would be even more confusing. I am a transgender woman that is attracted to dudes. Any way you slice it, that's pretty queer.

I know of at least one transwoman who is attracted to men and just considers themselves 'straight'.

 

[Playball40]

Bottom-line: there is clear neurobiological evidence for the argument that transgender people are probably born transgender, I just have to pee, I really strongly like people that bother to ask about my pronouns, and parental support can take a transgender kid's chances of attempted suicide from 60% down to 3%.

Objections seem to be, primarily:

A) semantics arguments, which are...semantics arguments...and

B) objections against critical theory, which I do not even really follow.

Does that about sum it up?

No.
What this looks like to me is a combination of mansplaining and male privilege.

What matters to you is all that matters. And you'll tell us why what you care about is important, while hand waving away the concerns of women, like @Emily Lake.

Does that about sum it up?
Tom

I don't think @Sigma has hand-waved away concerns.

@Loren Pechtel, @Jimmy Higgins, and @Jarhyn have though. It's the people who insist that sex doesn't matter, genitals are not a problem, and that women should just shut up and accept the risk of having people with penises in their spaces, because hey, what could go wrong? They're the ones hand-waving away concerns.

It's the male born-and-raised people who insist that because penises have never been a problem for them, and because they wouldn't be concerned to have a naked female in their midst, that the same thing should apply to women. They're the ones who see to think that the statistics for rape and sexual assaults are irrelevant, and that women just be crazy hysterical overreacting and all that.

As someone that is both queer and transgender, I have never fully understood it. Gay and bisexual men, in my life, have been considerate and respectful. My negative encounters, with the human race, have mostly been violent ones.

You have no idea how scary it is to be surrounded by five or more violent individuals, and you don't know whether they are trying to scare you, this time, or actually intent on killing you. Yes, I could tell you that living that way messes a person up, but I cannot really communicate it, even if you would choose to believe me. It is like explaining color to a blind person. This happened to me in the same year that Matthew Shepard was murdered. I don't know how to get it across.

It is like you trying to explain rape to somebody that wants to understand it, but a real understanding never gets through. It is a qualia that can only be understood by having felt it. And I STILL cannot genuinely understand that, except maybe I can understand the frustration of trying to explain color to a blind person and just feeling very alone because of that.

I'm sorry this has happened to you. My son was attacked multiple times in the bathroom (at 14 and 15 years old) being told to "prove" he was a guy. He eventually dropped out of school from fear of being attacked. And he went to a LIBERAL school. People suck and fear what they don't understand and it peeves me to no end reading thread after thread from certain people on this board hating or questioning transgendered persons. MY SON HAS A RIGHT TO LIVE HIS LIFE IN PEACE. But I know society is NOT going to make it easy for him.

 

[Metaphor]

Bottom-line: there is clear neurobiological evidence for the argument that transgender people are probably born transgender, I just have to pee, I really strongly like people that bother to ask about my pronouns, and parental support can take a transgender kid's chances of attempted suicide from 60% down to 3%.

Objections seem to be, primarily:

A) semantics arguments, which are...semantics arguments...and

B) objections against critical theory, which I do not even really follow.

Does that about sum it up?

No.
What this looks like to me is a combination of mansplaining and male privilege.

What matters to you is all that matters. And you'll tell us why what you care about is important, while hand waving away the concerns of women, like @Emily Lake.

Does that about sum it up?
Tom

I don't think @Sigma has hand-waved away concerns.

@Loren Pechtel, @Jimmy Higgins, and @Jarhyn have though. It's the people who insist that sex doesn't matter, genitals are not a problem, and that women should just shut up and accept the risk of having people with penises in their spaces, because hey, what could go wrong? They're the ones hand-waving away concerns.

It's the male born-and-raised people who insist that because penises have never been a problem for them, and because they wouldn't be concerned to have a naked female in their midst, that the same thing should apply to women. They're the ones who see to think that the statistics for rape and sexual assaults are irrelevant, and that women just be crazy hysterical overreacting and all that.

As someone that is both queer and transgender, I have never fully understood it. Gay and bisexual men, in my life, have been considerate and respectful. My negative encounters, with the human race, have mostly been violent ones.

You have no idea how scary it is to be surrounded by five or more violent individuals, and you don't know whether they are trying to scare you, this time, or actually intent on killing you. Yes, I could tell you that living that way messes a person up, but I cannot really communicate it, even if you would choose to believe me. It is like explaining color to a blind person. This happened to me in the same year that Matthew Shepard was murdered. I don't know how to get it across.

It is like you trying to explain rape to somebody that wants to understand it, but a real understanding never gets through. It is a qualia that can only be understood by having felt it. And I STILL cannot genuinely understand that, except maybe I can understand the frustration of trying to explain color to a blind person and just feeling very alone because of that.

I'm sorry this has happened to you. My son was attacked multiple times in the bathroom (at 14 and 15 years old) being told to "prove" he was a guy. He eventually dropped out of school from fear of being attacked. And he went to a LIBERAL school. People suck and fear what they don't understand and it peeves me to no end reading thread after thread from certain people on this board hating or questioning transgendered persons. MY SON HAS A RIGHT TO LIVE HIS LIFE IN PEACE. But I know society is NOT going to make it easy for him.

Nobody should be physically attacked, but your child is female and tried to use a sex-segregated space reserved for males.

Do you consider sex-segregated spaces 'hate'?

 

[none]

Bottom-line: there is clear neurobiological evidence for the argument that transgender people are probably born transgender, I just have to pee, I really strongly like people that bother to ask about my pronouns, and parental support can take a transgender kid's chances of attempted suicide from 60% down to 3%.

Objections seem to be, primarily:

A) semantics arguments, which are...semantics arguments...and

B) objections against critical theory, which I do not even really follow.

Does that about sum it up?

No.
What this looks like to me is a combination of mansplaining and male privilege.

What matters to you is all that matters. And you'll tell us why what you care about is important, while hand waving away the concerns of women, like @Emily Lake.

Does that about sum it up?
Tom

I don't think @Sigma has hand-waved away concerns.

@Loren Pechtel, @Jimmy Higgins, and @Jarhyn have though. It's the people who insist that sex doesn't matter, genitals are not a problem, and that women should just shut up and accept the risk of having people with penises in their spaces, because hey, what could go wrong? They're the ones hand-waving away concerns.

It's the male born-and-raised people who insist that because penises have never been a problem for them, and because they wouldn't be concerned to have a naked female in their midst, that the same thing should apply to women. They're the ones who see to think that the statistics for rape and sexual assaults are irrelevant, and that women just be crazy hysterical overreacting and all that.

As someone that is both queer and transgender,

Slight derail: what makes you queer?

not buttercups, get over it...

 

[Toni]

@Metaphor Well, at bars, which I do occasionally go to, it's actually the men's bathroom that is always full at peak hours, so I don't even bother knocking on the men's room anymore. The ladies' room is usually vacant. I am very impatient with bullshit.

However, if they don't have all-gender bathrooms, I don't usually go back because I kind of find segregated bathrooms to be creepy.

That's part of an entirely different issue going on, with respect to women feeling hounded at bars and just not wanting to deal with men who won't take no for an answer. And just to make things even more screwy, a lot of women choose to go to lesbian bars instead, seeking to avoid persistent men altogether... which the lesbians rather rightly object to.

Completely aside from any discussion of transgender accommodation and rights, there's also an issue with sexism in the US. It's much worse now than it was when I was a teenager.

Yeah. I didn’t realize how bad it was until my daughter told me about some stuff. I think it’s less a case of sexism generally abs a larger sense that a segment if the male population feels entitled to sexually assault whoever they want to assault, who refuse to take leave me alone for an answer and who now gave many more ways to stalk women.

 

[none]

sadly these aren't "women.".. they're prey.
and you know all these anchor babies from conservatives are ready to be "americans"....

 

[KeepTalking]

Bottom-line: there is clear neurobiological evidence for the argument that transgender people are probably born transgender, I just have to pee, I really strongly like people that bother to ask about my pronouns, and parental support can take a transgender kid's chances of attempted suicide from 60% down to 3%.

Objections seem to be, primarily:

A) semantics arguments, which are...semantics arguments...and

B) objections against critical theory, which I do not even really follow.

Does that about sum it up?

No.
What this looks like to me is a combination of mansplaining and male privilege.

What matters to you is all that matters. And you'll tell us why what you care about is important, while hand waving away the concerns of women, like @Emily Lake.

Does that about sum it up?
Tom

I don't think @Sigma has hand-waved away concerns.

@Loren Pechtel, @Jimmy Higgins, and @Jarhyn have though. It's the people who insist that sex doesn't matter, genitals are not a problem, and that women should just shut up and accept the risk of having people with penises in their spaces, because hey, what could go wrong? They're the ones hand-waving away concerns.

It's the male born-and-raised people who insist that because penises have never been a problem for them, and because they wouldn't be concerned to have a naked female in their midst, that the same thing should apply to women. They're the ones who see to think that the statistics for rape and sexual assaults are irrelevant, and that women just be crazy hysterical overreacting and all that.

As someone that is both queer and transgender, I have never fully understood it. Gay and bisexual men, in my life, have been considerate and respectful. My negative encounters, with the human race, have mostly been violent ones.

You have no idea how scary it is to be surrounded by five or more violent individuals, and you don't know whether they are trying to scare you, this time, or actually intent on killing you. Yes, I could tell you that living that way messes a person up, but I cannot really communicate it, even if you would choose to believe me. It is like explaining color to a blind person. This happened to me in the same year that Matthew Shepard was murdered. I don't know how to get it across.

It is like you trying to explain rape to somebody that wants to understand it, but a real understanding never gets through. It is a qualia that can only be understood by having felt it. And I STILL cannot genuinely understand that, except maybe I can understand the frustration of trying to explain color to a blind person and just feeling very alone because of that.

I'm sorry this has happened to you. My son was attacked multiple times in the bathroom (at 14 and 15 years old) being told to "prove" he was a guy. He eventually dropped out of school from fear of being attacked. And he went to a LIBERAL school. People suck and fear what they don't understand and it peeves me to no end reading thread after thread from certain people on this board hating or questioning transgendered persons. MY SON HAS A RIGHT TO LIVE HIS LIFE IN PEACE. But I know society is NOT going to make it easy for him.

Nobody should be physically attacked, but your child is female and tried to use a sex-segregated space reserved for males.

Why did you find it necessary to add a "but" there?

It is as if you are in some way trying to excuse that behavior.

 

[Metaphor]

Bottom-line: there is clear neurobiological evidence for the argument that transgender people are probably born transgender, I just have to pee, I really strongly like people that bother to ask about my pronouns, and parental support can take a transgender kid's chances of attempted suicide from 60% down to 3%.

Objections seem to be, primarily:

A) semantics arguments, which are...semantics arguments...and

B) objections against critical theory, which I do not even really follow.

Does that about sum it up?

No.
What this looks like to me is a combination of mansplaining and male privilege.

What matters to you is all that matters. And you'll tell us why what you care about is important, while hand waving away the concerns of women, like @Emily Lake.

Does that about sum it up?
Tom

I don't think @Sigma has hand-waved away concerns.

@Loren Pechtel, @Jimmy Higgins, and @Jarhyn have though. It's the people who insist that sex doesn't matter, genitals are not a problem, and that women should just shut up and accept the risk of having people with penises in their spaces, because hey, what could go wrong? They're the ones hand-waving away concerns.

It's the male born-and-raised people who insist that because penises have never been a problem for them, and because they wouldn't be concerned to have a naked female in their midst, that the same thing should apply to women. They're the ones who see to think that the statistics for rape and sexual assaults are irrelevant, and that women just be crazy hysterical overreacting and all that.

As someone that is both queer and transgender, I have never fully understood it. Gay and bisexual men, in my life, have been considerate and respectful. My negative encounters, with the human race, have mostly been violent ones.

You have no idea how scary it is to be surrounded by five or more violent individuals, and you don't know whether they are trying to scare you, this time, or actually intent on killing you. Yes, I could tell you that living that way messes a person up, but I cannot really communicate it, even if you would choose to believe me. It is like explaining color to a blind person. This happened to me in the same year that Matthew Shepard was murdered. I don't know how to get it across.

It is like you trying to explain rape to somebody that wants to understand it, but a real understanding never gets through. It is a qualia that can only be understood by having felt it. And I STILL cannot genuinely understand that, except maybe I can understand the frustration of trying to explain color to a blind person and just feeling very alone because of that.

I'm sorry this has happened to you. My son was attacked multiple times in the bathroom (at 14 and 15 years old) being told to "prove" he was a guy. He eventually dropped out of school from fear of being attacked. And he went to a LIBERAL school. People suck and fear what they don't understand and it peeves me to no end reading thread after thread from certain people on this board hating or questioning transgendered persons. MY SON HAS A RIGHT TO LIVE HIS LIFE IN PEACE. But I know society is NOT going to make it easy for him.

Nobody should be physically attacked, but your child is female and tried to use a sex-segregated space reserved for males.

Why did you find it necessary to add a "but" there?

It is as if you are in some way trying to excuse that behavior.

If I were trying to excuse it, I'd have said the behaviour was justified. I don't know what Playball40 means by 'attacked' - I assumed physical but perhaps not.

The events illustrate two things to me: people generally perceive the sex of others correctly, and that people treat male bathrooms as sex-segregated.

 

[Jarhyn]

Bottom-line: there is clear neurobiological evidence for the argument that transgender people are probably born transgender, I just have to pee, I really strongly like people that bother to ask about my pronouns, and parental support can take a transgender kid's chances of attempted suicide from 60% down to 3%.

Objections seem to be, primarily:

A) semantics arguments, which are...semantics arguments...and

B) objections against critical theory, which I do not even really follow.

Does that about sum it up?

No.
What this looks like to me is a combination of mansplaining and male privilege.

What matters to you is all that matters. And you'll tell us why what you care about is important, while hand waving away the concerns of women, like @Emily Lake.

Does that about sum it up?
Tom

I don't think @Sigma has hand-waved away concerns.

@Loren Pechtel, @Jimmy Higgins, and @Jarhyn have though. It's the people who insist that sex doesn't matter, genitals are not a problem, and that women should just shut up and accept the risk of having people with penises in their spaces, because hey, what could go wrong? They're the ones hand-waving away concerns.

It's the male born-and-raised people who insist that because penises have never been a problem for them, and because they wouldn't be concerned to have a naked female in their midst, that the same thing should apply to women. They're the ones who see to think that the statistics for rape and sexual assaults are irrelevant, and that women just be crazy hysterical overreacting and all that.

You are equivocating "people with penises" with "probably rapists".

Bottom-line: there is clear neurobiological evidence for the argument that transgender people are probably born transgender, I just have to pee, I really strongly like people that bother to ask about my pronouns, and parental support can take a transgender kid's chances of attempted suicide from 60% down to 3%.

Objections seem to be, primarily:

A) semantics arguments, which are...semantics arguments...and

B) objections against critical theory, which I do not even really follow.

Does that about sum it up?

No.
What this looks like to me is a combination of mansplaining and male privilege.

What matters to you is all that matters. And you'll tell us why what you care about is important, while hand waving away the concerns of women, like @Emily Lake.

Does that about sum it up?
Tom

I don't think @Sigma has hand-waved away concerns.

@Loren Pechtel, @Jimmy Higgins, and @Jarhyn have though. It's the people who insist that sex doesn't matter, genitals are not a problem, and that women should just shut up and accept the risk of having people with penises in their spaces, because hey, what could go wrong? They're the ones hand-waving away concerns.

It's the male born-and-raised people who insist that because penises have never been a problem for them, and because they wouldn't be concerned to have a naked female in their midst, that the same thing should apply to women. They're the ones who see to think that the statistics for rape and sexual assaults are irrelevant, and that women just be crazy hysterical overreacting and all that.

As someone that is both queer and transgender, I have never fully understood it. Gay and bisexual men, in my life, have been considerate and respectful. My negative encounters, with the human race, have mostly been violent ones.

You have no idea how scary it is to be surrounded by five or more violent individuals, and you don't know whether they are trying to scare you, this time, or actually intent on killing you. Yes, I could tell you that living that way messes a person up, but I cannot really communicate it, even if you would choose to believe me. It is like explaining color to a blind person. This happened to me in the same year that Matthew Shepard was murdered. I don't know how to get it across.

It is like you trying to explain rape to somebody that wants to understand it, but a real understanding never gets through. It is a qualia that can only be understood by having felt it. And I STILL cannot genuinely understand that, except maybe I can understand the frustration of trying to explain color to a blind person and just feeling very alone because of that.

I'm sorry this has happened to you. My son was attacked multiple times in the bathroom (at 14 and 15 years old) being told to "prove" he was a guy. He eventually dropped out of school from fear of being attacked. And he went to a LIBERAL school. People suck and fear what they don't understand and it peeves me to no end reading thread after thread from certain people on this board hating or questioning transgendered persons. MY SON HAS A RIGHT TO LIVE HIS LIFE IN PEACE. But I know society is NOT going to make it easy for him.

Nobody should be physically attacked, but your child is female and tried to use a sex-segregated space reserved for males.

Why did you find it necessary to add a "but" there?

It is as if you are in some way trying to excuse that behavior.

As if "males" (who are not violent/aggressive/abusive) should have to share space with the ones who are.

99% of my views are informed by the fact that I dislike being forced to share spaces with a great number of people who happen to have penises, despite the fact that I have one.

You claim that your fear for your safety amid a world of bigger, larger, more aggressive people, some of which would attack you for merely existing, rape you even, is unique. It is not.

Have you considered the reason I carry a staff is because I am a small person, who will in this life of their own volition become smaller?

It's the shocking lack of empathy for those of us who share the same concern s about the same group of violent assholes that puts me at odds with you, Emily

 

[Metaphor]

As if "males" (who are not violent/aggressive/abusive) should have to share space with the ones who are.

As if "males" was not a real word, it needs to be in "inverted commas".

I don't want to share a space with males who are violent/aggressive/abusive either. That doesn't mean I get to invade female spaces to get away from the violent males.

 

[none]

As if "males" (who are not violent/aggressive/abusive) should have to share space with the ones who are.

As if "males" was not a real word, it needs to be in "inverted commas".

I don't want to share a space with males who are violent/aggressive/abusive either. That doesn't mean I get to invade female spaces to get away from the violent males.

yep, another unisex convert.

 

[KeepTalking]

Bottom-line: there is clear neurobiological evidence for the argument that transgender people are probably born transgender, I just have to pee, I really strongly like people that bother to ask about my pronouns, and parental support can take a transgender kid's chances of attempted suicide from 60% down to 3%.

Objections seem to be, primarily:

A) semantics arguments, which are...semantics arguments...and

B) objections against critical theory, which I do not even really follow.

Does that about sum it up?

No.
What this looks like to me is a combination of mansplaining and male privilege.

What matters to you is all that matters. And you'll tell us why what you care about is important, while hand waving away the concerns of women, like @Emily Lake.

Does that about sum it up?
Tom

I don't think @Sigma has hand-waved away concerns.

@Loren Pechtel, @Jimmy Higgins, and @Jarhyn have though. It's the people who insist that sex doesn't matter, genitals are not a problem, and that women should just shut up and accept the risk of having people with penises in their spaces, because hey, what could go wrong? They're the ones hand-waving away concerns.

It's the male born-and-raised people who insist that because penises have never been a problem for them, and because they wouldn't be concerned to have a naked female in their midst, that the same thing should apply to women. They're the ones who see to think that the statistics for rape and sexual assaults are irrelevant, and that women just be crazy hysterical overreacting and all that.

As someone that is both queer and transgender, I have never fully understood it. Gay and bisexual men, in my life, have been considerate and respectful. My negative encounters, with the human race, have mostly been violent ones.

You have no idea how scary it is to be surrounded by five or more violent individuals, and you don't know whether they are trying to scare you, this time, or actually intent on killing you. Yes, I could tell you that living that way messes a person up, but I cannot really communicate it, even if you would choose to believe me. It is like explaining color to a blind person. This happened to me in the same year that Matthew Shepard was murdered. I don't know how to get it across.

It is like you trying to explain rape to somebody that wants to understand it, but a real understanding never gets through. It is a qualia that can only be understood by having felt it. And I STILL cannot genuinely understand that, except maybe I can understand the frustration of trying to explain color to a blind person and just feeling very alone because of that.

I'm sorry this has happened to you. My son was attacked multiple times in the bathroom (at 14 and 15 years old) being told to "prove" he was a guy. He eventually dropped out of school from fear of being attacked. And he went to a LIBERAL school. People suck and fear what they don't understand and it peeves me to no end reading thread after thread from certain people on this board hating or questioning transgendered persons. MY SON HAS A RIGHT TO LIVE HIS LIFE IN PEACE. But I know society is NOT going to make it easy for him.

Nobody should be physically attacked, but your child is female and tried to use a sex-segregated space reserved for males.

Why did you find it necessary to add a "but" there?

It is as if you are in some way trying to excuse that behavior.

If I were trying to excuse it, I'd have said the behaviour was justified. I don't know what Playball40 means by 'attacked' - I assumed physical but perhaps not.

The events illustrate two things to me: people generally perceive the sex of others correctly, and that people treat male bathrooms as sex-segregated.

None of that tells me why you felt it necessary to add ", but" after "Nobody should be physically attacked". One usually only does so to point out some mitigating circumstance, and I don't think that your "but" should be considered a mitigating circumstance to being physically attacked.

 

[none]

geesh: HE attacked me not physically, because I looked at him and HE was as lifeless as the sterile inert HE that is.
so HE attacked you?
yes, not physically.
||facepalm emoji||

 

[SigmatheZeta]

Bottom-line: there is clear neurobiological evidence for the argument that transgender people are probably born transgender, I just have to pee, I really strongly like people that bother to ask about my pronouns, and parental support can take a transgender kid's chances of attempted suicide from 60% down to 3%.

Objections seem to be, primarily:

A) semantics arguments, which are...semantics arguments...and

B) objections against critical theory, which I do not even really follow.

Does that about sum it up?

No.
What this looks like to me is a combination of mansplaining and male privilege.

What matters to you is all that matters. And you'll tell us why what you care about is important, while hand waving away the concerns of women, like @Emily Lake.

Does that about sum it up?
Tom

I don't think @Sigma has hand-waved away concerns.

@Loren Pechtel, @Jimmy Higgins, and @Jarhyn have though. It's the people who insist that sex doesn't matter, genitals are not a problem, and that women should just shut up and accept the risk of having people with penises in their spaces, because hey, what could go wrong? They're the ones hand-waving away concerns.

It's the male born-and-raised people who insist that because penises have never been a problem for them, and because they wouldn't be concerned to have a naked female in their midst, that the same thing should apply to women. They're the ones who see to think that the statistics for rape and sexual assaults are irrelevant, and that women just be crazy hysterical overreacting and all that.

As someone that is both queer and transgender, I have never fully understood it. Gay and bisexual men, in my life, have been considerate and respectful. My negative encounters, with the human race, have mostly been violent ones.

You have no idea how scary it is to be surrounded by five or more violent individuals, and you don't know whether they are trying to scare you, this time, or actually intent on killing you. Yes, I could tell you that living that way messes a person up, but I cannot really communicate it, even if you would choose to believe me. It is like explaining color to a blind person. This happened to me in the same year that Matthew Shepard was murdered. I don't know how to get it across.

It is like you trying to explain rape to somebody that wants to understand it, but a real understanding never gets through. It is a qualia that can only be understood by having felt it. And I STILL cannot genuinely understand that, except maybe I can understand the frustration of trying to explain color to a blind person and just feeling very alone because of that.

I'm sorry this has happened to you. My son was attacked multiple times in the bathroom (at 14 and 15 years old) being told to "prove" he was a guy. He eventually dropped out of school from fear of being attacked. And he went to a LIBERAL school. People suck and fear what they don't understand and it peeves me to no end reading thread after thread from certain people on this board hating or questioning transgendered persons. MY SON HAS A RIGHT TO LIVE HIS LIFE IN PEACE. But I know society is NOT going to make it easy for him.

Oh, getting attacked in the bathroom, riiiiiight. Did they do that creepy thing of turning the lights out, too?

That stuff didn't bother me as much, actually, because it was usually just one or two guys in a situation that I could escape from easily enough. That was just routine bullying.

It was the time I got surrounded by a street gang in the same year that Matthew Shepard was murdered that actually made me realize that homophobia and transphobia had gotten out-of-control, and because of that experience, I knew that gay rights wasn't just about our right to bugger each other. It was about the fact that someone should never treat ANYBODY that way.

 

[SigmatheZeta]

As if "males" (who are not violent/aggressive/abusive) should have to share space with the ones who are.

As if "males" was not a real word, it needs to be in "inverted commas".

I don't want to share a space with males who are violent/aggressive/abusive either. That doesn't mean I get to invade female spaces to get away from the violent males.

yep, another unisex convert.

 

[none]

As if "males" (who are not violent/aggressive/abusive) should have to share space with the ones who are.

As if "males" was not a real word, it needs to be in "inverted commas".

I don't want to share a space with males who are violent/aggressive/abusive either. That doesn't mean I get to invade female spaces to get away from the violent males.

yep, another unisex convert.

Spoiler

"image of a horse with a dong"

c oic, yeppers that is a horse with a dong and she is not ready for it to be excised from her "mind"...

 

[SigmatheZeta]

Bottom-line: there is clear neurobiological evidence for the argument that transgender people are probably born transgender, I just have to pee, I really strongly like people that bother to ask about my pronouns, and parental support can take a transgender kid's chances of attempted suicide from 60% down to 3%.

Objections seem to be, primarily:

A) semantics arguments, which are...semantics arguments...and

B) objections against critical theory, which I do not even really follow.

Does that about sum it up?

No.
What this looks like to me is a combination of mansplaining and male privilege.

What matters to you is all that matters. And you'll tell us why what you care about is important, while hand waving away the concerns of women, like @Emily Lake.

Does that about sum it up?
Tom

I don't think @Sigma has hand-waved away concerns.

@Loren Pechtel, @Jimmy Higgins, and @Jarhyn have though. It's the people who insist that sex doesn't matter, genitals are not a problem, and that women should just shut up and accept the risk of having people with penises in their spaces, because hey, what could go wrong? They're the ones hand-waving away concerns.

It's the male born-and-raised people who insist that because penises have never been a problem for them, and because they wouldn't be concerned to have a naked female in their midst, that the same thing should apply to women. They're the ones who see to think that the statistics for rape and sexual assaults are irrelevant, and that women just be crazy hysterical overreacting and all that.

As someone that is both queer and transgender, I have never fully understood it. Gay and bisexual men, in my life, have been considerate and respectful. My negative encounters, with the human race, have mostly been violent ones.

You have no idea how scary it is to be surrounded by five or more violent individuals, and you don't know whether they are trying to scare you, this time, or actually intent on killing you. Yes, I could tell you that living that way messes a person up, but I cannot really communicate it, even if you would choose to believe me. It is like explaining color to a blind person. This happened to me in the same year that Matthew Shepard was murdered. I don't know how to get it across.

It is like you trying to explain rape to somebody that wants to understand it, but a real understanding never gets through. It is a qualia that can only be understood by having felt it. And I STILL cannot genuinely understand that, except maybe I can understand the frustration of trying to explain color to a blind person and just feeling very alone because of that.

I'm sorry this has happened to you. My son was attacked multiple times in the bathroom (at 14 and 15 years old) being told to "prove" he was a guy. He eventually dropped out of school from fear of being attacked. And he went to a LIBERAL school. People suck and fear what they don't understand and it peeves me to no end reading thread after thread from certain people on this board hating or questioning transgendered persons. MY SON HAS A RIGHT TO LIVE HIS LIFE IN PEACE. But I know society is NOT going to make it easy for him.

Nobody should be physically attacked, but your child is female and tried to use a sex-segregated space reserved for males.

Do you consider sex-segregated spaces 'hate'?

A person that attacks me while I am trying to piss needs to be shot full of lead.