Charlie Kirk shot at (shot?) in Utah

[hurtinbuckaroo]

Straight from the “Oh, no!!! Anyway …” school of mourning:

 

[Toni]

I am really sick of seeing all the news on Kirk. The guy was a christian nationalist, a white nationalist, an anti-gay asswipe. Denying climate change, a 2020 election denier and antivax troglite. That a piece of shit and flags are at half mast over this.

I didn’t agree with or like the guy either, and I agree the coverage is completely overblown. If we were close by, I’d give you a fist bump for this post. But to me, this isn’t about who he was, it’s about someone being killed over their opinion. If we’re okay with Kirk getting shot, then we’ve got no right to complain when the same thing happens to someone we value.

It’s strange that this happened so close to 9/11, an event that profoundly changed America and the world. The rhetoric I’m seeing, both online and in person, is disturbing, people celebrating this man’s death as if they don’t have their own figures they admire who could one day be in the same danger. I can’t shake the feeling that this event marks a shift, and we haven’t yet seen the full aftermath.

I’ve heard people argue that if Kirk hadn’t been divisive, annoying, or bigoted, this wouldn’t have happened, that somehow it’s his own fault. But American history is filled with examples of people who preached peace and unity, only to be struck down violently.

I feel like I woke up in an alternative universe.

The fact is, we have no idea why Kirk was killed. Given that the person they arrested as the shooter appears to be conservative/christian and—no surprise: white and male—my best guess is that he was doing it for shits and giggles and mostly fame.

 

[Toni]

There is a long history of violent reposes on campus in California to conservative speakers.

Last year A Christian group was given a permit to put on a concert in a park in the Seattle LGBT neighborhood. There were questions by progressives as to how the permit was issued, the Christian group is counter to 'Seattle's values'. There were potshots.

Recreant they had an event away form the LGBT community and our mayor said there has to be equal rights for all, finally.

I think the right has a point, it is more the left that suppresses free repression.

While I agree that the left can want to limit the speech of those on the far-right, I will remind you that the alt-right were shooting cases of Bud Light because a transgender person was a spokesperson in a commercial. That is an actual reaction of violence, borderline terrorism.

AFAIK, the left has steadfastly upheld the rights of KKK members and other fascists to free speech including parades, etc.

It is the right who trembles at the word gay.

 

[Elixir]

MSNBC big red banner
LAWMAKERS, CITIZENS FEAR FOR THEIR SAFETY IN THE WAKE OF CHARLIE KIRK KILLING

It’s infinitely reassuring that when Vance Boelter (remember that name?) murdered Melissa and Mark Hortman in their own home after impersonating a police officer to gain entry, no citizens or lawmakers feared for their safety.
But pick off just ONE goddam unelected professional loudmouth white supremacist from 200 yards away as he bloviates in public about gun violence, and they all hide under their beds. Yay, Murka.
We are SO fucked.

PS my apology to @Gospel and others seeking to calm the waters. I feel right now that’s like closing all the doors and windows and pretending there’s no hurricane outside.

 

[Gospel]

I am really sick of seeing all the news on Kirk. The guy was a christian nationalist, a white nationalist, an anti-gay asswipe. Denying climate change, a 2020 election denier and antivax troglite. That a piece of shit and flags are at half mast over this.

I didn’t agree with or like the guy either, and I agree the coverage is completely overblown. If we were close by, I’d give you a fist bump for this post. But to me, this isn’t about who he was, it’s about someone being killed over their opinion. If we’re okay with Kirk getting shot, then we’ve got no right to complain when the same thing happens to someone we value.

It’s strange that this happened so close to 9/11, an event that profoundly changed America and the world. The rhetoric I’m seeing, both online and in person, is disturbing, people celebrating this man’s death as if they don’t have their own figures they admire who could one day be in the same danger. I can’t shake the feeling that this event marks a shift, and we haven’t yet seen the full aftermath.

I’ve heard people argue that if Kirk hadn’t been divisive, annoying, or bigoted, this wouldn’t have happened, that somehow it’s his own fault. But American history is filled with examples of people who preached peace and unity, only to be struck down violently.

I feel like I woke up in an alternative universe.

The fact is, we have no idea why Kirk was killed. Given that the person they arrested as the shooter appears to be conservative/christian and—no surprise: white and male—my best guess is that he was doing it for shits and giggles and mostly fame.

If I were to take a wild guess, it's because he wasn't saying the things someone wanted him to say. And for that, anyone can get shot.

 

[Politesse]

Up until this shooting I honestly did not even know who Charlie Kirk was.

Yet everyone on this forum seems to think I am the big MAGA licking hard right conspiracy nut.

Go figure.

I don't think he was exactly a household name before all this. Twenty somethings with internet access were more likely to know who he was, though. There are Turning Point organizations on most college campuses now, and it was big news in some corners of the internet when Kirk openly advocated for a few of the things he did. Tolerance of school shootings and advocating for the killing of homosexuals were both viral stories at points during the third election campaign. Then more recently, the flap over the Epstein files.

 

[Elixir]

I don't think he was exactly a household name before all this.

I thought he was Kirk Cameron, an Evangelical child actor (“Family Ties).
Same guy, just a bigger mouth.

 

[bilby]

Obviously we can't see into a parallel universe where the given assassination didn't occur in order to evaluate the differences, but history shows it's not a very good way to change things and can make things far, far worse, or at least greatly aggravate already tense circumstances (see the killing of Archduke Ferdinand).

From the point of view of the Serbian extremists who planned it, the killing of Archduke Ferdinand was a resounding success - Serbia remains independent to this day (and was, for a long time, the dominant player in the mish-mash of mutual dislike we called 'Yugoslavia').

Almost certainly, if the assassination and the subsequent Great War had not happened, Serbia would have been absorbed into either the Austro-Hungarian or the Ottoman Empires; Instead Serbia outlived both by over a century (and counting). It was one of the most effective political assassinations in history. Twenty million deaths is quite a bit of collateral damage, though.

 

[ZiprHead]

Seeing people saying that the memes inscribed on the casing are popular among 'groypers' which are fans of Nick Fuentes. So it is fascists killing fascists. Apparently Fuentes and Kirk didn't like each other.

 

[Derec]

The fact is, we have no idea why Kirk was killed.

We have some inkling.

Given that the person they arrested as the shooter appears to be conservative/christian

His parents seem to be, but he himself is a leftist by all accounts.

and—no surprise: white and male—

It would not be a Toni post without her denigrating white men.
When Iryna Zarutska was murdered, did you go "and—no surprise: a black man with a lengthy rap sheet!—"?
When Chandra Nagamallaiah was decapitated, did you go "and—no surprise: a Hispanic illegal who should have been deported a long time ago!—"?
No, of course you did not. You reserve your derision for white men specifically, even though whites are heavily underrepresented in homicides and other violent crimes.

my best guess is that he was doing it for shits and giggles and mostly fame.

Doubtful. That's a heavy price to pay for "shits and giggles".

 

[Derec]

[AI slop]

We are doing argumentum ad grokum? The slogans he used fit far better with a left-wing ideology.

 

[laughing dog]

The fact is, we have no idea why Kirk was killed.

We have some inkling.

Sure about? Everything is almost pure speculation at this writing,

Given that the person they arrested as the shooter appears to be conservative/christian

His parents seem to be, but he himself is a leftist by all accounts.

and—no surprise: white and male—

It would not be a Toni post without her denigrating white men.
When Iryna Zarutska was murdered, did you go "and—no surprise: a black man with a lengthy rap sheet!—"?
When Chandra Nagamallaiah was decapitated, did you go "and—no surprise: a Hispanic illegal who should have been deported a long time ago!—"?
No, of course you did not. You reserve your derision for white men specifically, even though whites are heavily underrepresented in homicides and other violent crimes.

my best guess is that he was doing it for shits and giggles and mostly fame.

Doubtful. That's a heavy price to pay for "shits and giggles".
[/QUOTE] Why not give the whining about your perceived injustices attributed to men and whataboutisms a rest for awhile? It will improve the quality of your discourse.

 

[Derec]

Almost certainly, if the assassination and the subsequent Great War had not happened,

The Great War (or Big European Kerfuffle) would have happened with our without the assassination. I like how Edward Blackadder put it.

Serbia would have been absorbed into either the Austro-Hungarian or the Ottoman Empires; Instead Serbia outlived both by over a century (and counting). It was one of the most effective political assassinations in history.

Serbia kicked the Ottoman Turks out some time earlier, and the Empire was reduced to pretty much the present Turkish borders on the European side.

Twenty million deaths is quite a bit of collateral damage, though.

As I said, the War would have happened anyway, just with a different trigger to set the whole thing in motion. But the system of the two alliances was too unstable to hold too long.

 

[Emily Lake]

I'm concerned about the increasing view among younger people that violence like this is justifiable and acceptable. It bodes poorly for our future.

 

[blastula]

Seeing people saying that the memes inscribed on the casing are popular among 'groypers' which are fans of Nick Fuentes. So it is fascists killing fascists. Apparently Fuentes and Kirk didn't like each other.

But he's also reported to have complained that Kirk was full of hate. A groyper wouldn't say that. They wouldn't say anything anti-fascist neither. Unless he's trying to do some kind of fake out, but then that's leaning on far too much mind reading. We'll have to wait till there's more information.

Also grok is an idiot.

 

[Elixir]

I'm concerned about the increasing view among younger people that violence like this is justifiable and acceptable. It bodes poorly for our future.

Master of understatement.
The acceptability of “second amendment solutions” has orange roots.

 

[Toni]

The fact is, we have no idea why Kirk was killed.

We have some inkling.

Sure about? Everything is almost pure speculation at this writing,

Given that the person they arrested as the shooter appears to be conservative/christian

His parents seem to be, but he himself is a leftist by all accounts.

and—no surprise: white and male—

It would not be a Toni post without her denigrating white men.
When Iryna Zarutska was murdered, did you go "and—no surprise: a black man with a lengthy rap sheet!—"?
When Chandra Nagamallaiah was decapitated, did you go "and—no surprise: a Hispanic illegal who should have been deported a long time ago!—"?
No, of course you did not. You reserve your derision for white men specifically, even though whites are heavily underrepresented in homicides and other violent crimes.

my best guess is that he was doing it for shits and giggles and mostly fame.

Doubtful. That's a heavy price to pay for "shits and giggles".

Why not give the whining about your perceived injustices attributed to men and whataboutisms a rest for awhile? It will improve the quality of your discourse.
[/QUOTE]
Frankly I do not have the time you seem to have to peruse the internet for stories about men murdering women, so I am unaware of those persons you mentioned.

According to FBI stats, most crimes are committed by makes, with the category of white make comprising the largest sub group.

There is absolutely nothing that I’ve read about the suspect in the killing of Charlie Kirk that suggests he is not far to the right of his victim and that in fact the excuse for the murder seems to be that Kirk was too liberal.
I don’t understand this myself but apparently fly there is a subgroup of young mostly white men who are engaged by the idea of making their mark in the world and grabbing some fame by killing school kids or famous public figures.

Surely I am not more up to date than you about the memes quoted in the ammunition?