Charlie Kirk shot at (shot?) in Utah

[Loren Pechtel]

Again, how do you define "pimp"? Just because sex workers work in an establishment does not mean they are there against their will. And many "anti-pimping" laws apply to people employed by the sex worker too, not the other way around.

Simple test: Is the compensation fair? I have seen repeated criticism that the Nevada brothels are very unfair because the cost is 50%. But various other personal service professions have similar costs. Some places have 50% gets you a workstation with the fixed tools for things like massage, hair, nails and the like.

(And it's not that I like prostitution--it's one of these things I think causes less harm legalized.)

 

[Toni]

Traditionally, a woman never sat idle. If all the cooking, washing, child minding and laundry was done, she might have a bit it time to sit. That was occupied by mending and knitting and darning socks or, if she was lucky, decorative needle work.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You don't have to be a conservative to find soft-on-crime policies like this idiotic.
But there are too many things made illegal that should not be. I am also in favor of bail reform, as long as it is implemented well. The NY law was definitely not a good one. It forbade judges from imposing bail or jail even when the suspect is arrested over and over again, which career criminals then use to maximum effect. The NY law also forbids judges from considering danger to community as a factor in bail/jail decisions.

While I agree on multiple arrests note that "tough" on crime often makes things worse. Especially with drugs.

Note that the bail problem is actually a symptom of a deeper problem: being held in jail prior to trial had actually become the primary punishment for many lesser crimes--by the time they were tried they were sentenced to time served. This is very bad for society, it means the innocent who get scooped up along with the guilty likely face a higher punishment (because they won't plead to something they didn't do) than the guilty who will likely plead and if they don't they still likely end up with no more time behind bars. Bail reform removed this huge pressure to take a plea and exposed the fact that the system can't actually handle that many cases. The answer is not to throw out bail reform (although I do think repeat offenders need to be handled differently) but to fix the rest of the system.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I don't understand why some people get so bent out of shape and so hateful that some people change their genders.

Same as back in the 1980's when I became aware that gay people existed.

Back then my attitude was, OK. It's not a problem. Leave them alone. It's not a problem.

With trans again, OK. They changed gender. Not a problem for anyone.

I don't understand why some people get so bent about this. I have to think that these people who get bent are seriously fucked up ethically.

Exactly where I stand. How does it harm me? Yeah, a guy tried to pick me up once. So what? It is something that should be disclosed promptly in romantic situations, otherwise it's a total so-what. You want something illegal, either show me the victim(s) or the undue risk of victims. That someone finds the implied or stated message offensive is not enough. That it causes questions that make parents squirm is not enough.

Imagine for a moment that someone "changing genders" consequentially means that 1: they are very much already neuro-atypical; 2: the probably aren't taking risks of any new family happening from their sexual liasons.

These two populations intersect to create a powerful economic potential that can elevate while families and segments of society, like a spear to penetrate whatever ceiling of reproductive behaviors create between the poor and the wealthy.

If you are wealthy and you hate the poor as the wealthy do often, then you ARE harmed by them. They are a cheat code for a genetic system to divide and conquer the problem of success and child rearing unto success.

I do agree it means they take their genes out of the system but I don't see the cheat code unless you're talking about not being saddled with oops babies.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Today I learned that it's never genocide unless your victims are just like Loren Pechtel in every way. If they aren't, then it is always possible to re-frame their victimhood as a consequence of provocation or pre-existing conflict, and then it's magically not genocide to attempt to wile out an entire population.

Who would have thought that it could be so easy to bring an end to genocide! Next week, we will eliminate racism, sexism, and fascism.

Apparently it's very important not to fight back when someone invades your home, lest the slaughter of your entire city should become legally justified by your illegal use of a firearm.

I'm not saying that it's ok to go after them because they fight back, but that killing a population that is attacking you is not the same thing as killing a population that simply doesn't bow to you.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Many of us do not think it's being remotely expansive, but rather that you are not recognizing the signs.

That may apply now, but the fact is that "fascist" has been thrown around for so long and so carelessly, it may be a "boy who cried wolf" type of thing.

No. What we are seeing is that those of us crying "fascist" were right all along. This isn't a new enemy, just the old enemy with the constraints removed.

The Republicans use more hidden language but they aren't too far behind Islam. We have major Republicans saying women shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Which major Republicans?

I've seen it but I don't recall who.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Again, my problem with legalized prostitution is that it doesn’t satisfy the demand and in fact creates a demand for illegal stuff—too young, or to take risks that no one should have to take: sex without a condom and threats of violence which still exist even with legalization, and wage theft that can amount to slavery.

I know that is not what you are advocating. I’m just saying that it doesn’t remove the problems associated with criminalized sex work ( minus being arrested for prostitution). I’m certain there are sex workers who do not suffer these harms but many do, even in legalized settings.

You haven't explained how making it legal is supposed to encourage the illegal things. The reality is that legal markets to a far better job of separating permitted and prohibited transactions than illegal ones do.

You buy your weed from the dispensary I passed today, you get carded. You buy it from the illegal dealer, you don't. You go to the brothel one county over, you know they are of legal age. You pick up a streetwalker, you have no way to verify age.

 

[ZiprHead]

[Admin Hat] Please discontinue the sex work, trafficking, and carjacking discussion. This thread is about Charlie Kirk and his killing. The other subjects are derails and are against the rules. [/Admin Hat]

 

[Politesse]

Today I learned that it's never genocide unless your victims are just like Loren Pechtel in every way. If they aren't, then it is always possible to re-frame their victimhood as a consequence of provocation or pre-existing conflict, and then it's magically not genocide to attempt to wile out an entire population.

Who would have thought that it could be so easy to bring an end to genocide! Next week, we will eliminate racism, sexism, and fascism.

Apparently it's very important not to fight back when someone invades your home, lest the slaughter of your entire city should become legally justified by your illegal use of a firearm.

I'm not saying that it's ok to go after them because they fight back, but that killing a population that is attacking you is not the same thing as killing a population that simply doesn't bow to you.

People defending their homes and children against an invading force are not "attackers".

 

[Elixir]

It's vastly overreported because most "trafficking" busts are just prostitution.

You just repeated yourself.
Understand this;
It’s vastly underreported because the vast majority of instances of trafficking are never reported.

 

[Toni]

Again, my problem with legalized prostitution is that it doesn’t satisfy the demand and in fact creates a demand for illegal stuff—too young, or to take risks that no one should have to take: sex without a condom and threats of violence which still exist even with legalization, and wage theft that can amount to slavery.

I know that is not what you are advocating. I’m just saying that it doesn’t remove the problems associated with criminalized sex work ( minus being arrested for prostitution). I’m certain there are sex workers who do not suffer these harms but many do, even in legalized settings.

You haven't explained how making it legal is supposed to encourage the illegal things. The reality is that legal markets to a far better job of separating permitted and prohibited transactions than illegal ones do.

You buy your weed from the dispensary I passed today, you get carded. You buy it from the illegal dealer, you don't. You go to the brothel one county over, you know they are of legal age. You pick up a streetwalker, you have no way to verify age.

The same way that one coffee shop spawns another. Or one porn shop or pawn shop or tattoo parlor seems to spawn another.

If people know that three blocks east of Main is where to go for for sex or booze or ice cream, they go three blocks east of Main for sex or booze or ice cream. So other establishments selling the same product or services begin to open nearby to take care of overflow.

Don’t you live in Nevada? Why did one casino attract others?

 

[bilby]

The Republicans use more hidden language but they aren't too far behind Islam. We have major Republicans saying women shouldn't be allowed to vote. Click to expand... Which major Republicans?

I've seen it but I don't recall who.

Pete Hegseth reposted a Christian Nationalist video on X that opposed women's right to vote.

But in his defence, he may well have been drunk at the time.

 

[Jarhyn]

The number of people in this thread who don't get what "dealing with them like we did in the 50s" means is a shining testimony to the ugly reality of social privilege. You pampered little shitbags honestly have no comprehension of what it would be like to be truly discriminated against as a class. Like, it's not just that you have never been targeted, apparently you cannot even imagine what it would be like. Your coddled, pampered asses have no equivalent experience on which such empathy could even be cultivated. Jesus, how nice it must be! To just go outside and not once have to think "is someone going to rape or murder me today?" Except it isn't nice, because you've never known anything else, so you just take it for granted. I get it. When all you eat is caviar, it's just another fish. Spoiled little shits. I was seven years old the first time an adult sexually harassed and then beat the shit of me for being queer, and I didn't even know that about myself at the time. Seven. Fuck. Little seven year old woke "terrorist", I guess. Playing the wrong game on the playground. Assaulting the Church and State with a dollie. What a threat.

But you guys are also incredibly stupid if you think the Nazis won't eventually come for you too, when they are done with us. You may be oblivious about specific things, but even you have read too much, know too much, and care too much. They may come for you last, but you aren't safe from them. No contrarian ever is. Participating on an "Infidel" website is a disappearance order all by itself, when a theocratic regime is truly in the ascendancy. Naive, doomed fools. It would be tragic, if you weren't taking so many good people down with you. But as it stands, when your number comes up the only people who would have cared about your plight will have preceded you.

Your mouth eternally to the ears of people who might understand.

I don't understand why some people get so bent out of shape and so hateful that some people change their genders.

Same as back in the 1980's when I became aware that gay people existed.

Back then my attitude was, OK. It's not a problem. Leave them alone. It's not a problem.

With trans again, OK. They changed gender. Not a problem for anyone.

I don't understand why some people get so bent about this. I have to think that these people who get bent are seriously fucked up ethically.

Exactly where I stand. How does it harm me? Yeah, a guy tried to pick me up once. So what? It is something that should be disclosed promptly in romantic situations, otherwise it's a total so-what. You want something illegal, either show me the victim(s) or the undue risk of victims. That someone finds the implied or stated message offensive is not enough. That it causes questions that make parents squirm is not enough.

Imagine for a moment that someone "changing genders" consequentially means that 1: they are very much already neuro-atypical; 2: the probably aren't taking risks of any new family happening from their sexual liasons.

These two populations intersect to create a powerful economic potential that can elevate while families and segments of society, like a spear to penetrate whatever ceiling of reproductive behaviors create between the poor and the wealthy.

If you are wealthy and you hate the poor as the wealthy do often, then you ARE harmed by them. They are a cheat code for a genetic system to divide and conquer the problem of success and child rearing unto success.

I do agree it means they take their genes out of the system but I don't see the cheat code unless you're talking about not being saddled with oops babies.

They don't, though. The system produced me, so clearly those genes are still there to make me, mostly. It's not a unique mutation or formation of brain potential owing to that one dude's "special jizz" or whatever.

It doesn't take anything away from it. And yes, not being saddled not just with whoops babies but with any expectation at all to eventually have kids outside of intense preparation.

In addition, well, the atypical who are capable of understanding gender issues and having them ironically have some drive to learn some particular thing really well. This, combined with not fitting into traditional roles in society, drives such people to sink promptly or learn something really well.

It also has a number of implications to memetics: while being trans is something that just happens, it happens to be something that disrupts the strength of "familial cultural memetics", too. It's less important for those who aren't narcissistic, but for those who want to raise their children to do what they did and be just like them but more "successful" it's an injustice to their children's independence of thought.

But this is useful because yes, family planning means families stay out of poverty long enough to succeed and contribute to the whole, which somewhere must contain innumerable examples of the ingredients that made me who I am.

Rather, I find different ways to encourage those genes.

 

[Derec]

Yes, and you aren't using that term as such, you are doing it to belittle yet another woman... behind her back. So manly!

I guess it's only ok to belittle men and right-wing women. A woman embraced by the Left, even if she is an Islamist, should never be made fun of. Even if she fully deserves it.

 

[Derec]

The reason why some people are stuck on two genders is inertia, in some part religious based inertia.

Nope, it's science and biology.

Naïveté is so cute!!

A lot of unpack there. The reason many people are stuck on two genders is not really inertial. There is a real binary here, even if it's not perfect. On the physical level, there are various intersex conditions. And trans can perhaps be understood as intersex with regard to brain-genitalia disconnect. Just because it affects the brain does not make it any less real than, say, testosterone insensitivity.

That said, these are failures of normal development. The human species is still gonochoric. TSwizzle is right there, and trans activists who want to eliminate the binary norm because of some exceptions are going too far. But people like TSwizzle also go too far when they try to dismiss the very real existence of people to whom the binary does not apply.

 

[Derec]

While I agree on multiple arrests note that "tough" on crime often makes things worse. Especially with drugs.

That's why I disagree with simple minded "tough on crime" just as much as I disagree with its polar opposite, the simple minded "criminal justice reform" that has been popular this past decade.
We need a smart approach that makes distinctions and is responsive to how how policy changes work in the real world.

The answer is not to throw out bail reform (although I do think repeat offenders need to be handled differently) but to fix the rest of the system.

Agreed, with the addition that bail reform should be fixed as well to be more responsive to problems like repeat offenders.

 

[laughing dog]

Yes, and you aren't using that term as such, you are doing it to belittle yet another woman... behind her back. So manly!

I guess it's only ok to belittle men and right-wing women. A woman embraced by the Left, even if she is an Islamist, should never be made fun of. Even if she fully deserves it.

No one said that any of that.

Once again, it is tone of belittlement.