China Prepares for War - Our Response?

[bilby]

NATO prepares for war with drills all the time though. Doesn't necessarily mean it will happen.

NATO also goes to war, fucking constantly. They just gaslight you into thinking their wars are with "unimportant countries" and thus don't really "count" as wars. Chinese citizens will likewise be reassured that the situation in Taiwan is a minor but necessary police action to put down some rogue terrorists in need of an education in civil society.

NATO? No. NATO is a specific organisation (that's what the 'O' stands for). It rarely goes to war, although since the end of the Cold War (during which it undertook no military actions at all), it has done so in the former Yugoslavia, in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Libya, and in Somalia and Yemen - though "goes to war" is perhaps an overstatement in some of these cases.

IMO none of these were justified by the NATO charter, and they weakened, rather than strengthened, the alliance. They also trod on the toes of the UN, whose role they usurped in many of these cases. Essentially they were a way for US, UK and France to do an 'end run' around the other two permanent members of the UN security council, and as such had a detrimental long-term effect on international relations.

NATO also "went to war" in US airspace in response to the 9/11 attacks; And provided humanitarian assistance to Pakistan after the 2005 Kashmir Earthquake.

The USA goes to war, fucking constantly. And they often drag along various allies, some of whom are also NATO members. But these wars are not NATO wars.

In recent years, Putin has sought to frame his illegal invasion of Ukraine as a war against NATO, and the NATO actions in former Yugoslavia in the 1990s have helped him to build that lie. But as military alliances go, NATO is one of the most benign in history, and for most of its existence has been purely defensive - the clouding of that defensive status is, as I said, a big mistake IMO.

 

[laughing dog]

China is playing the very long game. Once they feel confident the US will not intervene, Taiwan will be “reclaimed”. It isn’t crazy given the West’s tepid response to Russia’s 2 invasions of Ukraine: it’s rational given their stated position Taiwan is part of China.

 

[Gospel]

China’s been outmaneuvering the U.S. for years. Meanwhile, the yee-haw crowd passed Nixon’s torch straight into the hands of a man who could drown trying to extinguish a candle with the ocean. And for anyone already gearing up to misread this the way you butchered my Sudan comment....

 

[Harry Bosch]

NATO prepares for war with drills all the time though. Doesn't necessarily mean it will happen.

NATO also goes to war, fucking constantly. They just gaslight you into thinking their wars are with "unimportant countries" and thus don't really "count" as wars. Chinese citizens will likewise be reassured that the situation in Taiwan is a minor but necessary police action to put down some rogue terrorists in need of an education in civil society.

Are you channeling Barbos again! The last three Nato actions that I remember are Yugoslavia, Libya and Afghanistan. Afghanistan hosted the group that attacked the US. The Nato air attack on Serbia stopped a genocide. I think that in hindsight, probably attacking Libya was a mistake. But how many wars have been prevented due to Nato? Is there any doubt that Russia would have invaded Poland and the Baltics years ago without Nato?

 

[Politesse]

My point is that a gun primed and aimed is apt to be used. Ergo, we have every reason to be concerned about China. Bicker with someone more gullible about whether this war or that was justified, I am not so naive as to think any war is fought on moral principle.

 

[Harry Bosch]

My point is that a gun primed and aimed is apt to be used. Ergo, we have every reason to be concerned about China. Bicker with someone more gullible about whether this war or that was justified, I am not so naive as to think any war is fought on moral principle.

Would you agree that a country defending itself against an aggressive neighbor trying to steal its land is moral?

 

[Harry Bosch]

My point is that a gun primed and aimed is apt to be used. Ergo, we have every reason to be concerned about China. Bicker with someone more gullible about whether this war or that was justified, I am not so naive as to think any war is fought on moral principle.

Secondly, I agree with you that having a gun primed can lead to aggression. However, how do we stop larger countries from destroying smaller ones? Take for example Lithuania, a country that borders Russia. The country has about 3,000,000. Russia has about 143 million. Russia wants Lithuania. How can Lithuania protect itself? IMO, there are two options, developing nuclear weapons or joining an alliance? The world is far safer with a very powerful defensive alliance that deters aggression. Agree or disagree?

 

[Colonel Sanders]

China isn't doing anything to Taiwan. If they did, make no mistake about it, the U.S. would come to Taiwan's aid. China knows that. It can bluster all it wants, but its military equipment is untested and its military personnel inexperienced. We've all seen Russia's utter incompetence and and piss-poor equipment and logistical capability, and they actually had battle experience well prior to invading Ukraine. A Chinese invasion of Taiwan would present them with a learning curve they couldn't withstand.

Certainly a lot of damage would be done to Taiwan, but the risk of the operation going nuclear is too much to bear. The initial use of tactical nukes by both sides is doctrine. Should that doctrine be employed, it would almost certainly lead to the deployment of strategic nukes. China isn't going to risk that. Our current citrus-colored shitstain might, but China wouldn't because they're well aware of our leadership's fanaticism and horniness for our military.

Taiwan is a bargaining chip for both sides and both are playing hardball with it. That's where it begins and ends.

 

[Politesse]

My point is that a gun primed and aimed is apt to be used. Ergo, we have every reason to be concerned about China. Bicker with someone more gullible about whether this war or that was justified, I am not so naive as to think any war is fought on moral principle.

Would you agree that a country defending itself against an aggressive neighbor trying to steal its land is moral?

No.

I'm not really a black-and-white thinker when it comes to war. Not being the villain doesn't make you the hero by default, to my way of thinking, and such a winner-takes-all morality even at its most beneficient always erases moral accountability for one's actions in a way that a politician particularly should never be permitted to do.

If Japan, the US, and China work together to reduce Taiwan to unliveable rubble, that will be a tragedy, and I will not see anyone's intervention as a "good" thing just because they weren't the aggressor. To a grieving mother, the bomb that turned their kid's head into an extemporaneous mural isn't a "moral argument", it was just a bomb, whether a US or Chinese plane dropped it. To the person who has to meticulously scrape the mess off the pavement for six hours, trying to both keep the human matter separate from the cleaning fluid itself so it can all be safely cremated later, but also keeping a weather eye on every window around them and a paranoid ear out for the buzz of a drone because they know the whole gory scene might be set up as a lethal trap for people just like them, the question of "which artillery shell was more morally justifiable?" is not very relevant as a guide to the horror that their life has become. Everyone thinks their war is "morally justified", or they wouldn't wage one. And they often right, there is indeed some valid justification that passes the utilitarian check. But if you think that makes any war "good", I guarantee you've never lived one from the ground.

 

[Politesse]

My point is that a gun primed and aimed is apt to be used. Ergo, we have every reason to be concerned about China. Bicker with someone more gullible about whether this war or that was justified, I am not so naive as to think any war is fought on moral principle.

Secondly, I agree with you that having a gun primed can lead to aggression. However, how do we stop larger countries from destroying smaller ones? Take for example Lithuania, a country that borders Russia. The country has about 3,000,000. Russia has about 143 million. Russia wants Lithuania. How can Lithuania protect itself? IMO, there are two options, developing nuclear weapons or joining an alliance? The world is far safer with a very powerful defensive alliance that deters aggression. Agree or disagree?

Yes, they have little choice but to arm up and find allies, I would do the same. No, that doesn't make a war in Lithuania "good".