CIS gender versus TRANS gender... the throphies?

[KeepTalking]

Pretty sure the Williams sisters are not transgender. I do recall another tennis match a while back though, something about a "battle of the sexes", Billy Jean King won that one handily.

 

[Metaphor]

Pretty sure the Williams sisters are not transgender. I do recall another tennis match a while back though, something about a "battle of the sexes", Billy Jean King won that one handily.

The Williams sisters are not transgender; they are female. The point is not that trans people have an advantage over cis people, the point is that males have an advantage over females.

Billie Jean King won a match against somebody 26 years her senior. You'll notice that sport has age divisions, too.

 

[none]

multiple participation awards are in order I guess

 

[Trausti]

Pretty sure the Williams sisters are not transgender. I do recall another tennis match a while back though, something about a "battle of the sexes", Billy Jean King won that one handily.

The Williams sisters were the top of their sport. Yet, they couldn't beat a man who was a runner-up in his. The Uncanny Ex-Men dominate women's sport, Ex-Women are inconsequential to men's sport.

 

[KeepTalking]

Pretty sure the Williams sisters are not transgender. I do recall another tennis match a while back though, something about a "battle of the sexes", Billy Jean King won that one handily.

The Williams sisters are not transgender; they are female. The point is not that trans people have an advantage over cis people, the point is that males have an advantage over females.

So? This thread is not about male vs. female. I also feel I should point out that a transgender male who has undergone hormone therapy will have an advantage over a cisgender female.

Billie Jean King won a match against somebody 26 years her senior. You'll notice that sport has age divisions, too.

A 55 year old former champion who bragged that women were so inferior that he could beat the best female player in the world. He was wrong. There is a lot of wrong to go around in this thread.

 

[KeepTalking]

Pretty sure the Williams sisters are not transgender. I do recall another tennis match a while back though, something about a "battle of the sexes", Billy Jean King won that one handily.

The Williams sisters were the top of their sport. Yet, they couldn't beat a man who was a runner-up in his.

That's great. Riggs was a former champion who bragged he could beat the best female player in the world, he was wrong.

The Uncanny Ex-Men dominate women's sport, Ex-Women are inconsequential to men's sport.

Male transgenders who are not allowed to compete in male sports and end up competing in female sports dominate women's sport. Seems to be the hormones. Right now there are a lot of barriers to transgenders competing in sport, so I don't think there is much data available to show that transgender males are inconsequential in men's sport. Let them play, and we are sure to find examples of consequential male transgenders in male sport.

 

[Metaphor]

So? This thread is not about male vs. female. I also feel I should point out that a transgender male who has undergone hormone therapy will have an advantage over a cisgender female.

Yes, they would. And therefore it might not be fair for a transman to compete against women, because transmen are taking performance enhancing drugs. (If a transman was not taking any testosterone and just wanted to compete against the men, sure, why not).

A 55 year old former champion who bragged that women were so inferior that he could beat the best female player in the world. He was wrong. There is a lot of wrong to go around in this thread.

He failed to beat the #1 ranked female player at the time. Billie Jean King couldn't have beat the #1 ranked male player at the time, or probably any male player in the top 200.

We separate sports by sex because males have an advantage over females. We do not separate sports by 'gender identity', because that would be ludicrous and unfair.

 

[KeepTalking]

So? This thread is not about male vs. female. I also feel I should point out that a transgender male who has undergone hormone therapy will have an advantage over a cisgender female.

Yes, they would. And therefore it might not be fair for a transman to compete against women, because transmen are taking performance enhancing drugs. (If a transman was not taking any testosterone and just wanted to compete against the men, sure, why not).

So you agree that transgenders should be allowed to compete as the gender to which they have transitioned. So, what's the issue here again?

 

[Trausti]

That's great. Riggs was a former champion who bragged he could beat the best female player in the world, he was wrong.

The Uncanny Ex-Men dominate women's sport, Ex-Women are inconsequential to men's sport.

Male transgenders who are not allowed to compete in male sports and end up competing in female sports dominate women's sport. Seems to be the hormones. Right now there are a lot of barriers to transgenders competing in sport, so I don't think there is much data available to show that transgender males are inconsequential in men's sport. Let them play, and we are sure to find examples of consequential male transgenders in male sport.

How much data do you need to see that trans-men are inconsequential in men's sport? Considering the significant impact of trans-women in women's sport, if trans-men had a similar impact we'd see it by now. But we don't.

 

[Metaphor]

So? This thread is not about male vs. female. I also feel I should point out that a transgender male who has undergone hormone therapy will have an advantage over a cisgender female.

Yes, they would. And therefore it might not be fair for a transman to compete against women, because transmen are taking performance enhancing drugs. (If a transman was not taking any testosterone and just wanted to compete against the men, sure, why not).

So you agree that transgenders should be allowed to compete as the gender to which they have transitioned. So, what's the issue here again?

No, I don't. How on earth do you get that from what I wrote?

Females have the right to play against other females, or, if they want, on the men's team (which should really be thought of as the 'open' division, except that females would never or hardly ever qualify).

Males never have the right to play on female teams, no matter what their gender identity.

Any person who takes a performance-enhancing drug (like testosterone) has disqualified themselves from professional sport.

 

[KeepTalking]

That's great. Riggs was a former champion who bragged he could beat the best female player in the world, he was wrong.

The Uncanny Ex-Men dominate women's sport, Ex-Women are inconsequential to men's sport.

Male transgenders who are not allowed to compete in male sports and end up competing in female sports dominate women's sport. Seems to be the hormones. Right now there are a lot of barriers to transgenders competing in sport, so I don't think there is much data available to show that transgender males are inconsequential in men's sport. Let them play, and we are sure to find examples of consequential male transgenders in male sport.

How much data do you need to see that trans-men are inconsequential in men's sport? Considering the significant impact of trans-women in women's sport, if trans-men had a similar impact we'd see it by now. But we don't.

You have not shown a "significant impact of trans-women in women's sport". Your example in this thread was not about transgender athletes, but rather cisgender athletes.

 

[Trausti]

How much data do you need to see that trans-men are inconsequential in men's sport? Considering the significant impact of trans-women in women's sport, if trans-men had a similar impact we'd see it by now. But we don't.

You have not shown a "significant impact of trans-women in women's sport". Your example in this thread was not about transgender athletes, but rather cisgender athletes.

What? I very clearly made a triple dog dare for the OP to cite a single instance of an trans-men breaking records in men's sport. (There are plenty going the other way.)

 

[TomC]

That's great. Riggs was a former champion who bragged he could beat the best female player in the world, he was wrong.

The Uncanny Ex-Men dominate women's sport, Ex-Women are inconsequential to men's sport.

Male transgenders who are not allowed to compete in male sports and end up competing in female sports dominate women's sport. Seems to be the hormones. Right now there are a lot of barriers to transgenders competing in sport, so I don't think there is much data available to show that transgender males are inconsequential in men's sport. Let them play, and we are sure to find examples of consequential male transgenders in male sport.

How much data do you need to see that trans-men are inconsequential in men's sport? Considering the significant impact of trans-women in women's sport, if trans-men had a similar impact we'd see it by now. But we don't.

It's kinda strange how many people do not grasp why there are men's and women's divisions in sports.

Try explaining why anybody should be able to compete on any sports team, without regard for genetics or gender. There needn't be any women's sports leagues or teams at all.

Yeah. Just try that...
Tom

 

[KeepTalking]

So you agree that transgenders should be allowed to compete as the gender to which they have transitioned. So, what's the issue here again?

No, I don't. How on earth do you get that from what I wrote?

You do not want to allow transgender males to compete with females, so I could only assume that you wanted them to compete with males (the gender to which they transitioned). Is it actually the case that you do not want to allow them to compete with either gender? Seems like the only other choice.

Females have the right to play against other females, or, if they want, on the men's team (which should really be thought of as the 'open' division, except that females would never or hardly ever qualify).

Males never have the right to play on female teams, no matter what their gender identity.

Any person who takes a performance-enhancing drug (like testosterone) has disqualified themselves from professional sport.

Ah, so you don't want them competing with anyone. Exactly how is a transgender female taking a performance enhancing drug?

 

[Jarhyn]

You do not want to allow transgender males to compete with females, so I could only assume that you wanted them to compete with males (the gender to which they transitioned). Is it actually the case that you do not want to allow them to compete with either gender? Seems like the only other choice.

Females have the right to play against other females, or, if they want, on the men's team (which should really be thought of as the 'open' division, except that females would never or hardly ever qualify).

Males never have the right to play on female teams, no matter what their gender identity.

Any person who takes a performance-enhancing drug (like testosterone) has disqualified themselves from professional sport.

Ah, so you don't want them competing with anyone. Exactly how is a transgender female taking a performance enhancing drug?

He wants to lean on the utterly asinine assumption that "all AM people have undergone testosterone-based transformation to a level that spoils them for competition against CIS-AF"

This is, as stated, utterly asinine.

 

[Metaphor]

You do not want to allow transgender males to compete with females, so I could only assume that you wanted them to compete with males (the gender to which they transitioned). Is it actually the case that you do not want to allow them to compete with either gender? Seems like the only other choice.

Any person taking a performance-enhancing drug should not compete with either sex.

Ah, so you don't want them competing with anyone. Exactly how is a transgender female taking a performance enhancing drug?

Any person of any sex who is taking testosterone is taking a performance-enhancing drug. Performance-enhancing drugs are generally banned from professional sports.

In fact, testosterone is so performance-enhancing that Caster Semenya (who is not trans and not taking T, but is intersex) has to take T-suppressing drugs to be allowed to compete against other females.

But any female of any gender identity who isn't taking performance-enhancing drugs should be able to compete against males if they want to. Transmen can do it if they want, if the affirmation of their gender identity is so important. Women could also do it if they want, since men's sport is more popular and they could stand to make more money in some sports.

 

[KeepTalking]

You do not want to allow transgender males to compete with females, so I could only assume that you wanted them to compete with males (the gender to which they transitioned). Is it actually the case that you do not want to allow them to compete with either gender? Seems like the only other choice.

Any person taking a performance-enhancing drug should not compete with either sex.

Ah, so you don't want them competing with anyone. Exactly how is a transgender female taking a performance enhancing drug?

Any person of any sex who is taking testosterone is taking a performance-enhancing drug. Performance-enhancing drugs are generally banned from professional sports.

In fact, testosterone is so performance-enhancing that Caster Semenya (who is not trans and not taking T, but is intersex) has to take T-suppressing drugs to be allowed to compete against other females.

But any female of any gender identity who isn't taking performance-enhancing drugs should be able to compete against males if they want to. Transmen can do it if they want, if the affirmation of their gender identity is so important. Women could also do it if they want, since men's sport is more popular and they could stand to make more money in some sports.

Oh, I am glad we came so quickly to your absurd position that I don't have to argue with you any more. Have a nice thread.

 

[Metaphor]

Any person taking a performance-enhancing drug should not compete with either sex.



Any person of any sex who is taking testosterone is taking a performance-enhancing drug. Performance-enhancing drugs are generally banned from professional sports.

In fact, testosterone is so performance-enhancing that Caster Semenya (who is not trans and not taking T, but is intersex) has to take T-suppressing drugs to be allowed to compete against other females.

But any female of any gender identity who isn't taking performance-enhancing drugs should be able to compete against males if they want to. Transmen can do it if they want, if the affirmation of their gender identity is so important. Women could also do it if they want, since men's sport is more popular and they could stand to make more money in some sports.

Oh, I am glad we came so quickly to your absurd position that I don't have to argue with you any more. Have a nice thread.

Separating sports by sex is not an absurd position.

 

[Emily Lake]

if during competition a trans gender athlete out performs and defeats a cis gender athlete, should the cis gender athlete get a participation award?

No, participation trophies are dumb, and nobody should get them. Ever.

That said, male people should not compete against female people, regardless of what gender they identify as. Sport should be sex-segregated. I would assume that the reasons are obvious to anyone with a brain and an understanding of biology.

 

[scombrid]

You'll notice that sport has age divisions, too.

Pathetic age-groupers. You are either on the top podium or you are getting a participation trophy. Once you age out it is time to hang it up or just participate and understand that you'll never win again. Most age-groupers never won anything anyway. The elite athletes retire and ride off into the sunset. You don't see them primping and posing at the local 5k all intense like it is the fucking olympics.