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Classified documents and their location

I think if I was a Presidential adviser, I'd advise the President to declassify any document in writing before he or she took it out of the White House.
 
laughing dog said:
I think if I was a Presidential adviser, I'd advise the President to declassify any document in writing before he or she took it out of the White House.
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I think if I were a President, I tried to take a classified document out of the White House, and a Presidential advisor didn't stop me, I'd take that as proof that they had absolutely no business being in their job and fire them right away.

Then again, I'm neither a President or an advisor.
 
James Brown said:
Curious article about US Government Classified Documents:

* Nobody knows how many millions of pages of government documents are classified

* 1,494 officials in 16 agencies have the authority to classify documents; of those, 671 officials have the power to stamp them Top Secret.

* historical documents that were long ago declassified by one agency are still declared classified—even Top Secret—by another agency.

* Documents marked Confidential are so innocuous that the National Archives’ ISOO report recommends abolishing the label altogether.

* Officials—especially those doing analysis of military policy, foreign affairs, and intelligence—feel a need to over-classify papers that they’ve written. Otherwise, their colleagues and superiors won’t read it.

The equivalent of grade inflation.
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This is so true. I’ve read so many reports classified secret that had no business being so. Things you could easily find in open journals on the web. Once when I was in Afghanistan, we were going after some bad guy, and so I looked him up on our little secret Wikipedia that the CIA updates. Out of curiosity I checked the real Wikipedia. Sure enough there was everything in the secret one and more. It’s utterly ridiculous. The State Department would always classify things NOFORN. cant even tell the Canadians right next to me! They never refused to downgrade as releasable to NATO. So why was it that way in the first place?
 
Et tu, Mikey?

First on CNN: Classified documents found at Pence’s Indiana home​


Let's hope that Garland doesn't think he needs to hire another Special Counsel just to investigate every past President and Vice President. The same one that he stuck on Biden can pick this one up, too.

Meanwhile, they need to do a thorough search of the homes of Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Al Gore, Jeb Bush, Dan Quayle, and Barrack Obama. Those who refuse to turn over any classified materials and claim that they own them should be thrown in jail. Except Donald Trump, of course. That guy hasn't even been indicted for obstruction of justice yet by our intrepid DoJ, and it doesn't look like he ever will be.
 
When working for Lockheed leaving classified documents in the open or leaving a locked file cabinet unlocked got you into trouble.

Defense companies have security departments that watch what is going on.

In congress and the WH there does ot appear to any on site security monitors.

At Lockheed when I was handed a classified document it was numbered. When I no longer needed it, it had to be turned in. Nobody could just hang onto documents.

The saying was access to classified material depends on clearance level and a need to know.

One problem is POTUS has the top level security clearance. I do not think POTUS can be denied access to any classified material.

From reporting some documents are hand carried to someone in omgress and they are allowed to read it while someone waits.

Trump said recently on camera he took some empty classified folders because je thout it was a cool souvenir. They were fond in his Mira Lago desk. A fucking idiot.

Biden has never been the brightest bulb n the tree. That he had documents in several places going back years is just pain sloppiness ans inattention to detail. He is doing the usual political jive.


There needs to be an explicit law that governs classified material in the WH and congress. When documents are handed out there needs to be tracking of where they are at all times.

Don't hold your breath waiting.
 
steve_bank said:
Biden has never been the brightest bulb n the tree. That he had documents in several places going back years is just pain sloppiness ans inattention to detail. He is doing the usual political jive.
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Actually, Biden is considerably brighter than many of the bulbs, especially the ones put up by Republicans. Given that classified documents have now been found at Pence's home, it seems likely that the highest levels of the executive branch have been much more cavalier about the handling of those documents than those of us who have had clearances and gone through training on their proper handling. Nevertheless, the issue here is not on careless handling of documents, but on the deliberate misuse of them for personal reasons. Trump did not just want souvenirs. He was looking for things in those documents, including especially evidence of anything they had on him concerning Russia and Russiagate.

Weeks before Mar-a-Lago search, ex-Trump DOD official vowed to publish classified documents from National Archives​

 


The politics of this is so funny right now. For consistency (fat chance), Pence now has to call for a special counsel on himself.

But really, one never should have been appointed for Biden. That was overkill.
 
This is exactly the sort of situation for a Special Prosecutor. An SP has gotten some negative press due to how politicized investigations can get or be claimed they are.
 
Copernicus said:
steve_bank said:
Biden has never been the brightest bulb n the tree. That he had documents in several places going back years is just pain sloppiness ans inattention to detail. He is doing the usual political jive.
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Trump did not just want souvenirs. He was looking for things in those documents, including especially evidence of anything they had on him concerning Russia and Russiagate.
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More to the point, Trump was having someone - who may or may not have had security clearance - look through the documents for him. No way he read them himself.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
This is exactly the sort of situation for a Special Prosecutor.
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Nah, they are supposed to be called for criminal investigations. The appointment of the one on Biden was just to appease bad faith operators. Unfortunately, that same kind of thinking is probably going to let Trump off the hook from prosecution.

This will at least show even more how absurdly unserious the House Republicans are, when they only investigate the document handling by Biden and not by Trump nor Pence.
 
All of this makes me want to give a little benefit of the doubt to those leaders who have been found with classified documents. I mean geez.

Well, except for the one who actively obstructed justice, that is.
 
Ford said:
Copernicus said:
steve_bank said:
Biden has never been the brightest bulb n the tree. That he had documents in several places going back years is just pain sloppiness ans inattention to detail. He is doing the usual political jive.
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Trump did not just want souvenirs. He was looking for things in those documents, including especially evidence of anything they had on him concerning Russia and Russiagate.
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More to the point, Trump was having someone - who may or may not have had security clearance - look through the documents for him. No way he read them himself.
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I posted this upthread. Note the bolded parts.

www.justsecurity.org

Tracker: Evidence of Trump's Knowledge and Involvement in Retaining Mar-a-Lago Documents

"We have compiled a comprehensive account of the publicly available information."
www.justsecurity.org www.justsecurity.org
  • Trump was warned in late 2021 by his former White House lawyer that it was unlawful to retain the documents, especially classified information;
  • Trump personally sorted through the documents in late 2021;
  • Trump’s personal knowledge and possession, access, and control of the documents is indicated by the quantity, content, and location of documents with classified markings (including intermingled with personal belongings) and by his admissions on Truth Social;
  • Trump repeatedly stated privately that the documents were his to possess and he was not willing to deliver them to the government;
  • Trump aides repeatedly tried to get him to return the documents to the government;
  • Trump was repeatedly put on notice by Archives and Justice Department that his retention of the documents was unlawful and a potential threat to national security;
  • Trump was apparently involved in obstructive acts of trying to conceal documents from the government after receiving a subpoena.
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Considering how our nutty country classifies so many things unnecessarily, I'd be shocked if many current or former politicians didn't have at least a few classified documents in their homes or offices. At least Pence, who I have no respect for, seems to be honest.
 
Copernicus said:
steve_bank said:
Biden has never been the brightest bulb n the tree. That he had documents in several places going back years is just pain sloppiness ans inattention to detail. He is doing the usual political jive.
Click to expand...

Actually, Biden is considerably brighter than many of the bulbs, especially the ones put up by Republicans. Given that classified documents have now been found at Pence's home, it seems likely that the highest levels of the executive branch have been much more cavalier about the handling of those documents than those of us who have had clearances and gone through training on their proper handling. Nevertheless, the issue here is not on careless handling of documents, but on the deliberate misuse of them for personal reasons. Trump did not just want souvenirs. He was looking for things in those documents, including especially evidence of anything they had on him concerning Russia and Russiagate.

Weeks before Mar-a-Lago search, ex-Trump DOD official vowed to publish classified documents from National Archives​

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I disagree. I am certainly glad he beat Trump, but IMO the better of two evils.

He is an experinced seasoned run of he mill DC polician. It shows in his responses.


His infrastructure bill on EV charging stations was not well thought out and planned. But I digress.

Hvaning been foud to have multiple documents in multiple locations afer his commnts on Trump can not make him look more foolish. More than that it takes Trump off the hook.

The difference between Trump and Biden regarding documents will be lost in the political propaganda.

Now instead of energy and a new grid to support EVs we are seeing this nonsense 24/7 in the media.
 
RVonse said:
As usual we really don't know anything more than what is being told to us. So that means we really don't know anything at all. It does seem very curious to me that in all my long life all of a sudden POTUS keeping sensitive documents has suddenly become a pressing problem. I could speculate all sorts of possiblilities:

1) The documents really aren't that sensitive or any more important than Hillary's emails, but the feds have now discovered they want more respect from their elected officials. So the dems played their card with Trump and now the Republicans are following suit with Biden.
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There's a huge difference. I'm not exactly surprised at the rash of cases coming out--the boss being lax with security measures is absolutely no surprise to anyone who works in IT. What is abnormal is His Flatulence's resistance to returning the documents. That's what changes it from slap with a wet noodle to Leavenworth territory.

RVonse said:
2) Maybe Trump had super evil Spector intentions but Biden was only losing his mind.
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Note that the list now includes Pence.

RVonse said:
I also find it extremely troubling our federal government has slowly and steadily become so paranoid about sensitive documents that it still refuses to share 60 year old documents from the Kennedy assassination. What the hell are they so afraid of not to let any of us know what they are doing?
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1) Documents can remain classified for a long time because they incidentally refer to something that's still classified. Don't assume a document is only about it's purpose!

2) Documents may remain classified because they contain something embarrassing to someone. There need not be any great secrets involved. And it might not even be our secrets. It's pretty clear that we don't have the whole story on the K-129, but it very well might be some agreement with Russia that's keeping it hidden.
 
bilby said:
Dan Quayle??

I didn't know that TOP SECRET classification extended to picture books.
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Quayle's family is actually quite well known as contributors and patrons to the National Archive. I would be most interested in the results of an investigation of their various doings.
 
In part I can understand in that all of these guys never pack their own boxes. they have aides do that. Usually some 22 year old kid with nothing better to do. Probably can't spell SCI - much less know what it means.

But what i can't understand is why they exist in paper form at all? Who the fuck is printing these out? These would all be on a JWICS computer system - a completely isolated system so it cannot be hacked. to actually have these in your garage, means someone actually printed the document out. I almost would never do that, and if I did so I could just read the paper, I would immediately shred the document. There's just no point to having these documents in a paper form at all. Everyone knows you can't just leave them laying around the office, so why bother?

Maybe it's just that all of these guys are old. They always had paper and dealt with paper to begin with and can't stand not keeping them. But again, this is where all of their excuses fall flat. They don't have to preserve electronic documents on paper - there's nothing wrong with shredding them and they should be. They can't destroy all of the electronic copies though of course. Having these documents in physical form, just makes no sense.
 
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