Columbia University is colluding with the far-right in its attack on students

[bilby]

They're the world experts, there's nobody else nearly as good at minimizing civilian deaths in combat.

Sure.

In other news, my favourite football team are the best in the world. They only lose because the referees hate us for our success.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If you, Playball40, were the prime minister or defense minister of Israel on 10/7/2023, what would have been your plan? Please be specific, addressing the facts on the ground, including Hamas tunnels under ostensibly civilian buildings and infrastructure.

And consider the fact that every hospital was a Hamas base. It's long been a deliberate strategy of theirs to put military stuff in "protected" locations so useful idiots will blame Israel for destroying said locations.

 

[bilby]

It's long been a deliberate strategy of theirs to put military stuff in "protected" locations so useful idiots will blame Israel for destroying said locations because if they put it literally anywhere else, it will immediately be destroyed.

FTFY. That behaviour isn't evil, or even manipulative. It's a rational response to an existential threat.

If somebody you supported did this in the face of an overwhemingly powerful adversary, you would applaud their pluck, ingenuity, and resourcefulness.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

This is an interview from about a week ago, Columbia student Jonathan Ben-Menachem. I don't think I disagree with him.

JBM is a far-left police abolitionist. See his screeds here.

I don't think I disagree with Columbia's decision to ban [Khymani James] either.

He should be expelled, not just temporarily banned from campus.

Because you disagree with his ideas?

Once again you have the facts and omit them from what you quote.

The issue is "The Zionists do not deserve to live."

 

[Loren Pechtel]

What fucking good is it to fund "aid" if no one is allowed into the country to distribute it, and open fire is allowed against aid convoys and refugee trains? If I shot you in the gut and raped your kid, would you forgive me as long as I then threw some bandages on the ground a few feet away and told you to crawl over and get them?

It is allowed in. The problem is that Hamas won't distribute it.

And making targets of aid is a very deliberate poly by Hamas. They get to block the aid (they need the people dependent on them) while making people think Israel is bad.

If Biden isn't scared of the consequences of backing Israel, people will die in large numbers. And news footage of his people roughing up minorities to defend his policies is the only thing that makes him nervous in that way. Theu can squelch most footage from Gaza, they can't keep the cameras away from the MI governor's mansion or the campus of UCLA.

Hamas has paraded videos of Hamas atrocities. And it's Hamas that controls what video comes out of the parts of Gaza they control. The parts Israel controls are doing much better.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If these students want to do something helpful, they can donate to one of the organizations that are giving aide to the Palestinians.

Biden was doing NOTHING to help Palestinians or "restrain" Netanyahu until his swing states fell into question due to protests over this issue.

Christ! He and the western countries gave Israel a limited blank check after the October 7th massacre. Once Israel squandered it, and it became apparent Netanyahu had no plan and was potentially looking at annexing Gaza, most other nations started asking questions and the US then started asking questions.

No plan? They blew up the tunnels (at least the ones they know about), they've been rooting Hamas out of places once the tunnels are removed. 40% of Hamas is dead. (And odds are that a good portion of the rest are wounded.) It seems to me like they do have a plan, although Hamas keeps getting the world to hold them back a bit.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Ethnic cleansing means getting the targeted people to leave. It doesn't matter how - death or movement. There is plenty of death in Gaza - direct from IDF attacks and indirect from disease and starvation. And if people were easier to leave Gaza, I'd suspect there'd be a larger exodus.

So, yeah, it pretty much looks like ethnic cleansing.

Hamas won't let people leave unless they have foreign passports.

And if there's a lot of death from starvation why haven't there been any starvation deaths in quite a while? The Gaza Ministry of Health publishes numbers.

And why won't you even consider the possibility of Hamas surrendering? Why is the burden always on Israel?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No, actually, they haven't. They have BOYS that are in prison for throwing a rock. They have plenty of people held without even being charged (not unlike Guantanamo). The use is NOT limited, it's excessive.

You realize that "boys" can cover up through 17.

And "throwing a rock" can cover things like dropping concrete blocks on passing soldiers. That would be prosecuted as attempted murder in the US, but it's ok because it's a Palestinian?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I wouldn't have immediately scaled an all out perpetual war (thinking Afghanistan). I would have used intelligence and struck strategically AFTER attempting to negotiate the release of the hostages diplomatically. Yes, Israel has a right to 'defend' itself (as does Gaza), but let's not pretend that the attack on 10/7 was in isolation. Blowing up and bombing all of Gaza in the HOPES of killing a few Hamas members does NOTHING but create more hatred and anger among the Palestinian people. There is no reason to continue on with this tactic unless....perhaps....your end goad is not a release of the hostages.

Try to negotiate? Come back when you have a plan that at least approximates reality. There's nothing Israel could have offered for the hostages that would permit Israel to survive. Nor could the Israeli government survive an attempt to do so.

And what Israel does to Gaza has no effect on the hate. That's driven by Iran.

 

[laughing dog]

This is an interview from about a week ago, Columbia student Jonathan Ben-Menachem. I don't think I disagree with him.

JBM is a far-left police abolitionist. See his screeds here.

I don't think I disagree with Columbia's decision to ban [Khymani James] either.

He should be expelled, not just temporarily banned from campus.

Because you disagree with his ideas?

Once again you have the facts and omit them from what you quote.

The issue is "The Zionists do not deserve to live."

Once again, you jump into a discussion by ignoring the context. The issue is freedom of speech.

Ethnic cleansing means getting the targeted people to leave. It doesn't matter how - death or movement. There is plenty of death in Gaza - direct from IDF attacks and indirect from disease and starvation. And if people were easier to leave Gaza, I'd suspect there'd be a larger exodus.

So, yeah, it pretty much looks like ethnic cleansing.

Hamas won't let people leave unless they have foreign passports.

And if there's a lot of death from starvation why haven't there been any starvation deaths in quite a while? The Gaza Ministry of Health publishes numbers.

Nothing in your response rebuts my observation that is bold-faced above..

And why won't you even consider the possibility of Hamas surrendering? Why is the burden always on Israel?

I have - post 331. Hamas started this particular tragedy of death and destruction. But either party can end it any time they want - each has the power to do so, just not the courage nor the will.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Student protesters reach a deal with Northwestern University that sparks criticism from all sides

An agreement between anti-war protesters and Northwestern University has largely ended demonstrations on the suburban Chicago campus

abcnews.go.com

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Ethnic cleansing means getting the targeted people to leave. It doesn't matter how - death or movement. There is plenty of death in Gaza - direct from IDF attacks and indirect from disease and starvation. And if people were easier to leave Gaza, I'd suspect there'd be a larger exodus.

So, yeah, it pretty much looks like ethnic cleansing.

Hamas won't let people leave unless they have foreign passports.

And if there's a lot of death from starvation why haven't there been any starvation deaths in quite a while? The Gaza Ministry of Health publishes numbers.

And why won't you even consider the possibility of Hamas surrendering? Why is the burden always on Israel?

I'm certain laughing dog would love for Hamas to surrender. They won't though.

Hamas was bad before Oxtober 7th. Their existance post October 7th, in light of the hostage taking is effectively unacceptable.

This doesn't justify a siege.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

 

[Politesse]

Singing old civil rights hymns: Violence

Throwing someone down a stairway: Peace

Detaining reporters for reporting: Freedom

Duckspeak: Liberation

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

UN concerned over treatment of US protesters - RTHK

The United Nation's human rights chief has voiced concern over heavy-handed steps to remove protesters from university campuses in the United States w...

news.rthk.hk

House Republicans launch investigation into federal funding for universities amid campus protests

House Republicans are investigating the federal funding for universities where students have protested the Israel-Hamas war.

apnews.com

 

[Cognoscenti324]

What bothers me the most about Israel/Gaza are the steadfast opinions about the conditions in Israel/Gaza from people that 1) live thousands of miles from it 2) never been there. For a campus, I think there are opportunities to communicate what is happening, the issues with perception from afar, providing narratives to a story that really is two sided and no where near black and white.

This is much a people conflict as it is an information conflict. There is a lot that can be taught about this, and how to grow from it, instead of merely make useless gestures.

Yes because, no technology exists that can accurately inform people of things happening in the world that are far away that they have never been to....

That is adorable! I know what it is like to live in Israel or Palestine because I read something on the Internet or saw a news story.

Your limited experience in apprehending similar world events sounds like a you problem. Perhaps we could sit down and I could explain to you what happened in the Holocaust and that it was.... you know..... bad - since you can't seem to fathom anything in the world that you didn't personally experience......

 

[TV and credit cards]

.

What bothers me the most about Israel/Gaza are the steadfast opinions about the conditions in Israel/Gaza from people that 1) live thousands of miles from it 2) never been there. For a campus, I think there are opportunities to communicate what is happening, the issues with perception from afar, providing narratives to a story that really is two sided and no where near black and white.

This is much a people conflict as it is an information conflict. There is a lot that can be taught about this, and how to grow from it, instead of merely make useless gestures.

Yes because, no technology exists that can accurately inform people of things happening in the world that are far away that they have never been to....

That is adorable! I know what it is like to live in Israel or Palestine because I read something on the Internet or saw a news story.

Your limited experience in apprehending similar world events sounds like a you problem. Perhaps we could sit down and I could explain to you what happened in the Holocaust and that it was.... you know..... bad - since you can't seem to fathom anything in the world that you didn't personally experience......

Unless you read in depth, well written article(s), you can't begin to appreciate the conditions on the ground. And that is only a beginning. Reporters in country may not even have a full appreciation of what life is like for people trying to survive in Gaza until they are there for quite some time.
I once held a rather narrow minded view of people entering the US illegally. I then lived in the Philippines for three plus years and learned to appreciate the desperation of absolute poverty. Something I would probably never get from the writings of others. There's something to be said for engaging all the senses in evaluating a situation rather than just reading and taking as truthful words on a page.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Why not a camp for them in the West Bank?

Seriously, why not?

Israel would find a terrorist or terrorist cell that is using the camp for cover, and use that as pretext to slaughter them all.

Israel seems to be killing terrorists at a rate of about 40x the rate they kill civilians. Why do you persist in this nonsense of claiming it's just an excuse to kill Palestinians?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Violent clashes break out at UCLA amid dueling demonstrations, police respond to campus

Police responded to UCLA early Wednesday morning after violent clashes erupted between competing protest groups at a pro-Palestinian encampment on the campus.

abc7.com

 

[laughing dog]

Why not a camp for them in the West Bank?

Seriously, why not?

Israel would find a terrorist or terrorist cell that is using the camp for cover, and use that as pretext to slaughter them all.

Israel seems to be killing terrorists at a rate of about 40x the rate they kill civilians. Why do you persist in this nonsense of claiming it's just an excuse to kill Palestinians?

Because you are using that ratio (or any kill ratio) to justify the killing of terrorists and civilians.