Consciousness

[none]

Nobody knew it was this complicated

 

[DBT]

All you have is assertions, insults and dismissal, Mr Untermensche, no rational arguments, no evidence and no reason....only faith based beliefs founded upon your subjective experience (autonomous consciousness/agency), just like religion in general.

I have offered only rational arguments.

Not one, zilch, zip, nada, only arm waving, insulting posters and repeating assertions. Your whole so called argument rests on assertion. Assertion and rejecting actual evidence.

 

[untermensche]

Poor reading appears (again).

As expected, wrong again with a side of denial.

Fully automated classification algorithms have been successfully applied to diagnose a wide range of neurological and psychiatric diseases. They are sufficiently robust to handle data from different scanners for many applications and in specific cases outperform radiologists. This article provides an overview of current applications taking structural imaging in Alzheimer's disease and schizophrenia as well as functional imaging to diagnose depression as examples. In this context, we also report studies aiming to predict the future course of the disease and the response to treatment for the individual. This has obvious clinical relevance but is also important for the design of treatment studies that may aim to include a cohort with a predicted fast disease progression to be more sensitive to detect treatment effects.

In recent years, such approaches have also shown their potential for high-accuracy classification in the context of depression: For example, Fu et al correctly classified depressive patients on the basis of their neural response during the presentation of sad faces (with 74% accuracy for medium-intensity sad faces and 76% accuracy for high intensity sad faces). Corresponding to the impaired recognition of neutral facial expressions on the behavioral level, depressive patients could also be identified on the basis of their neural response pattern following neutral facial expressions (accuracy rate, 87%).

Care to try again?

Do you want to discuss a particular study? I doubt you understand any of these.

I can't discuss 50 studies at once.

Point to a specific study and tell me what it shows and I will discuss it.

But at the end of the day all these studies are just computer tricks, not any understanding of brain activity.

Human beings have no understanding of brain activity.

They do not have the slightest clue what aspect of brain activity becomes conscious experience.

So all they do is computer tricks that provide a correlation to subjective reports without understanding the activity one bit.

 

[untermensche]

I have offered only rational arguments.

Not one, zilch, zip, nada, only arm waving, insulting posters and repeating assertions. Your whole so called argument rests on assertion. Assertion and rejecting actual evidence.

You have no ability to reason or make logical arguments. All you can do is ape the bad conclusions of others like a religious adherent and point to things you can't explain like a Christian points to the Bible.

For instance you ignorantly claim that experience can occur without a separation between that which experiences and the things it can experience.

You probably don't even understand that sentence.

 

[beero1000]

As expected, wrong again with a side of denial.

Fully automated classification algorithms have been successfully applied to diagnose a wide range of neurological and psychiatric diseases. They are sufficiently robust to handle data from different scanners for many applications and in specific cases outperform radiologists. This article provides an overview of current applications taking structural imaging in Alzheimer's disease and schizophrenia as well as functional imaging to diagnose depression as examples. In this context, we also report studies aiming to predict the future course of the disease and the response to treatment for the individual. This has obvious clinical relevance but is also important for the design of treatment studies that may aim to include a cohort with a predicted fast disease progression to be more sensitive to detect treatment effects.

In recent years, such approaches have also shown their potential for high-accuracy classification in the context of depression: For example, Fu et al correctly classified depressive patients on the basis of their neural response during the presentation of sad faces (with 74% accuracy for medium-intensity sad faces and 76% accuracy for high intensity sad faces). Corresponding to the impaired recognition of neutral facial expressions on the behavioral level, depressive patients could also be identified on the basis of their neural response pattern following neutral facial expressions (accuracy rate, 87%).

Care to try again?

Do you want to discuss a particular study? I doubt you understand any of these.

I can't discuss 50 studies at once.

Point to a specific study and tell me what it shows and I will discuss it.

But at the end of the day all these studies are just computer tricks, not any understanding of brain activity.

Human beings have no understanding of brain activity.

They do not have the slightest clue what aspect of brain activity becomes conscious experience.

So all they do is computer tricks that provide a correlation to subjective reports without understanding the activity one bit.

 

[DBT]

Not one, zilch, zip, nada, only arm waving, insulting posters and repeating assertions. Your whole so called argument rests on assertion. Assertion and rejecting actual evidence.

You have no ability to reason or make logical arguments. All you can do is ape the bad conclusions of others like a religious adherent and point to things you can't explain like a Christian points to the Bible.

For instance you ignorantly claim that experience can occur without a separation between that which experiences and the things it can experience.

You probably don't even understand that sentence.

Like everything else you've said to date, your sentence is a reflection of your own erroneous beliefs and a desperate attempt at maintaining your own untenable position, but I doubt that you can see that, yet alone understand it.

 

[untermensche]

You have no ability to reason or make logical arguments. All you can do is ape the bad conclusions of others like a religious adherent and point to things you can't explain like a Christian points to the Bible.

For instance you ignorantly claim that experience can occur without a separation between that which experiences and the things it can experience.

You probably don't even understand that sentence.

Like everything else you've said to date, your sentence is a reflection of your own erroneous beliefs and a desperate attempt at maintaining your own untenable position, but I doubt that you can see that, yet alone understand it.

Everything huh?

When they say "everything" you know they are full of shit.

I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that every time I want my arm to move all I have to do is will it.

On the other hand you have some cockamamie story about the brain somehow moving the arm but fooling consciousness into thinking it is doing it. It's so absurd only children would accept it.

Nothing you say has any connection to actual experience.

- - - Updated - - -

Do you want to discuss a particular study?

View attachment 11376

That's what I figured.

Goodby.

 

[fromderinside]

But no scan can tell you if a person is depressed or not depressed.

Depression is many times a problem of the mind, like after the death of a close friend, not a problem of the brain.

Funny that. Humans design scanners and humans can pick up depression quite reliably. So why do you think humans design systems for diagnosing depression when they can already do it fairly well? I'll give you my answer after you explain that one.

So what is it about the death of a close friend that rules out the brain and it's emotional collateral from that happenstance?

 

[untermensche]

But no scan can tell you if a person is depressed or not depressed.

Depression is many times a problem of the mind, like after the death of a close friend, not a problem of the brain.

Funny that. Humans design scanners and humans can pick up depression quite reliably. So why do you think humans design systems for diagnosing depression when they can already do it fairly well? I'll give you my answer after you explain that one.

So what is it about the death of a close friend that rules out the brain and it's emotional collateral from that happenstance?

Can you demonstrate that the brain, apart from consciousness, knows about other people?

Why would the brain care?

How does a brain care?

 

[bilby]

Funny that. Humans design scanners and humans can pick up depression quite reliably. So why do you think humans design systems for diagnosing depression when they can already do it fairly well? I'll give you my answer after you explain that one.

So what is it about the death of a close friend that rules out the brain and it's emotional collateral from that happenstance?

Can you demonstrate that the brain, apart from consciousness, knows about other people?

The brain is not 'apart from consciousness'.

Why would the brain care?

Because there isn't anything else.

How does a brain care?

Nobody knows. Least of all you.

But we do know that the brain is the only thing that's there to do that job. So positing a separate 'mind' is moving away from, not towards, that knowledge.

 

[untermensche]

Can you demonstrate that the brain, apart from consciousness, knows about other people?

The brain is not 'apart from consciousness'.

We don't really know what consciousness is but it is believed to be some product of brain activity.

A product of activity is separate from the process and thing that produces it.

To say they are the same thing is utter gibberish.

Why would the brain care?

Because there isn't anything else.

There is consciousness. A brain is not a consciousness. You are again talking gibberish.

How does a brain care?

Nobody knows. Least of all you.

Then there is no evidence it does.

 

[DBT]

Unbelievable. The sheer level of denial. Denial of experiments, evidence, case studies and practically everything that the research tells us.

 

[untermensche]

Unbelievable. The sheer level of denial. Denial of experiments, evidence, case studies and practically everything that the research tells us.

"Research tells us"?

Humans make conclusions.

Many times they make bad conclusions.

Claiming that is impossible is religion.

 

[beero1000]

Unbelievable. The sheer level of denial. Denial of experiments, evidence, case studies and practically everything that the research tells us.

It's a recurring pattern - he never changes his view, no matter what. Once his proclamation of obvious truth is made, that's it. At this point, participation in these threads is just a matter of assisting him in continuing to embarrass himself.

 

[untermensche]

Unbelievable. The sheer level of denial. Denial of experiments, evidence, case studies and practically everything that the research tells us.

It's a recurring pattern - he never changes his view, no matter what. Once his proclamation of obvious truth is made, that's it. At this point, participation in these threads is just a matter of assisting him in continuing to embarrass himself.

I say the same of the three or four people here that seem to disagree with me.

Dogmatists.

They can explain nothing but claim to understand everything.

They think the brain is playing tricks on consciousness and making it believe it is initiating action when it is not.

It is a fairy tale that only children could believe.

 

[none]

He rejects the many studies, there's just to many for him to look at

 

[untermensche]

He rejects the many studies, there's just to many for him to look at

Nobody has discussed studies here.

Some have presented studies as if they were holy scripture beyond question.

When the studies are looked at you realize that all the researchers have done is attach labels to activity they do not understand. They do not know how the activity arose or what is controlling it.

There is no understanding of brain activity. No understanding of how the activity of a bunch of cells becomes a conscious person.

But despite this cloud of nonsense one thing is clear.

I can lift my arm at will whenever I choose to do it.

 

[none]

a little melodrama, why that is your forte!
nobody said that the findings were holy, they just happen to be sound and scientific fact

 

[untermensche]

a little melodrama, why that is your forte!
nobody said that the findings were holy, they just happen to be sound and scientific fact

Blah blah blah.

Which study do you want to talk about and why?

 

[none]

how about yours? I'm familiar with some scientific studies of depression but your study I'm completely unfamiliar with