Contemplating short dresses and cleavage on teens

[ruby sparks]

That's quite rich, given the posts you've made in this thread.

I'm not even going to ask what you're talking about. Bye. Have fun with the dodgy mind-reading.

 

[Toni]

That's quite rich, given the posts you've made in this thread.

I'm not even going to ask what you're talking about. Bye. Have fun with the dodgy mind reading.

You wouldn't get it anyway. I'm not sure there's a mansplaining translation...

Have fun reading my mind to tell you that I'm reading your mind when I'm saying that something is my perception.

 

[ruby sparks]

One more thing regarding sense of humour. Saying that men are only necessary for insemination and then going on to construct futuristic fantasies involving that. That was genuinely funny. Either that or it's a case of asking 'what sort of person even thinks like that'? You, clearly. Go you.

 

[Toni]

Necessary is not the same thing as desirable. Or useful.

 

[Rhea]

One more thing regarding sense of humour. Saying that men are only necessary for insemination and then going on to construct futuristic fantasies involving that. That was genuinely funny. Either that or it's a case of asking 'what sort of person even thinks like that'? You, clearly. Go you.

So, funny tangent... My sister, who is a chef, once said something similar. Entertainingly, the men in the room got quite bent. She laughed at them and said, in her inimitable way, “You think I’m just being creepy funny. Look around you. Look at the menu.. The women we keep. They lay eggs, they give milk, they breed. They are useful in large numbers. The men? There are no men, we kill them young and eat them. Pullet, veal, lamb, calf - the world doesn’t need them to grow up.”

So, just sayin’, that was pretty funny.

Perhaps that’s why the men get so bent. They know it’s true.

 

[ruby sparks]

One more thing regarding sense of humour. Saying that men are only necessary for insemination and then going on to construct futuristic fantasies involving that. That was genuinely funny. Either that or it's a case of asking 'what sort of person even thinks like that'? You, clearly. Go you.

So, funny tangent... My sister, who is a chef, once said something similar. Entertainingly, the men in the room got quite bent. She laughed at them and said, in her inimitable way, “You think I’m just being creepy funny. Look around you. Look at the menu.. The women we keep. They lay eggs, they give milk, they breed. They are useful in large numbers. The men? There are no men, we kill them young and eat them. Pullet, veal, lamb, calf - the world doesn’t need them to grow up.”

So, just sayin’, that was pretty funny.

Perhaps that’s why the men get so bent. They know it’s true.

Personally, I might not have been too surprised. I was brought up on a farm so I know how it goes for farm animals. But I don't think of women as livestock, only really necessary for breeding and providing for me. There are and were some men who think or thought that. They are and were sometimes collectively called members of the patriarchy. In that sense the farming analogy is actually pretty good.

Looking at things from a biological standpoint is also potentially 'useful'. That way, someone could make a case for 'natural' gender roles involving males who are bigger and stronger than females.

It's surely all very progressive.

 

[DrZoidberg]

One more thing regarding sense of humour. Saying that men are only necessary for insemination and then going on to construct futuristic fantasies involving that. That was genuinely funny. Either that or it's a case of asking 'what sort of person even thinks like that'? You, clearly. Go you.

So, funny tangent... My sister, who is a chef, once said something similar. Entertainingly, the men in the room got quite bent. She laughed at them and said, in her inimitable way, “You think I’m just being creepy funny. Look around you. Look at the menu.. The women we keep. They lay eggs, they give milk, they breed. They are useful in large numbers. The men? There are no men, we kill them young and eat them. Pullet, veal, lamb, calf - the world doesn’t need them to grow up.”

So, just sayin’, that was pretty funny.

Perhaps that’s why the men get so bent. They know it’s true.

But it is an important insight. It explains a large part of gender differences. It explains why men often are so sensitive to being mocked. All men are consciously (or subconsciously) aware that most men are unnecessary. All men are also made aware of this fact by seeing most women pine for a tiny elite of men. Men are adored or tolerated, pretty much. Women rarely need men. Especially not in the modern world. Men are either amazing or irrelevant. A mediocre man is often considered worthless by women. In a way a mediocre woman isn't by men. Men can't really afford to be weak, which is why we so often do so embarrassing and pathetic things to retain a feeling of some masculinity.

A woman can cruise through life by being nice and just make friends. A man can't. A man needs to take considerable risks and succeed at something.

It's also interesting how female friend groups work differently than male friend groups. They seem to have different functions precisely of the above.

Another thing I think is funny is how postmodern feminists claim that men and women think the same until they have babies. When a woman has had children, then suddenly she understands things that a man never can. Well... whoop-de-do. That's what friends of science has been claiming all along.

 

[Rhea]

We were talking about whih gender is needed most on a space colonizing ship, tho....

 

[DrZoidberg]

We were talking about whih gender is needed most on a space colonizing ship, tho....

I can recommend this book. It's about exactly that.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25659450-arkwright

The planet is so far away that an inter generational ship is out of the question. So they freeze embryos (fertilised human eggs). After safely landing on the new planet they are gestated in synthetic wombs and then raised by robots. The first batch of embryos are all women. Frozen sperm is also brought from Earth which is used to fertilise the first generation of women. After which they have kids like normal. The reason for this is mathematical. It's to maximise the number of human off spring. They explain the rational behind it very well. Quite a large number is needed to avoid inbreeding down the road. Eggs and sperm are selected to maximise genetic diversity.

 

[thebeave]

We were talking about whih gender is needed most on a space colonizing ship, tho....

Well, if this article about an all female employee business is any indication, I think an all female intergenerational spaceship is likely doomed before it gets out of earth orbit.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1168182/Catfights-handbags-tears-toilets-When-producer-launched-women-TV-company-thought-shed-kissed-goodbye-conflict-.html

Over in one corner sat Alice, a strong-minded 27-year-old who always said what she thought, regardless of how much it might hurt someone else. In the other corner was Sarah, a thirtysomething high-flier who would stand up for herself momentarily - then burst into tears and run for the ladies.

Their simmering fight lasted hours, egged on by spectators taking sides and fuelling the anger. Sometimes other girls would join in, either heckling aggressively or huddling defensively in the toilets. It might sound like a scene from a tawdry reality show such as Big Brother, but the truth is a little more prosaic: it was just a normal morning in my office.

The venomous women were supposedly the talented employees I had headhunted to achieve my utopian dream - a female- only company with happy, harmonious workers benefiting from an absence of men.

It was an idealistic vision swiftly shattered by the nightmare reality: constant bitchiness, surging hormones, unchecked emotion, attention-seeking and fashion rivalry so fierce it tore my staff apart.

Although, I will say to the credit of the ladies posting here that it does appear that women dress primarily for other women, and NOT for the pleasure of men:

Fashion was a great divider, though in this battlefield everyone was on their own. Hideously stereotypical and shallow as it sounds, clothes were a huge source of catty comments, from sly remarks about people looking over-dressed to the merits of their fake tan application.

I always felt sorry for anyone who naively showed off a new purchase in the office, because everyone would coo appreciatively to their face - then harshly criticise them as soon as they were out of earshot. This happened without exception.

My deputy, Sarah, the general manager, first showed how much style mattered when she advertised for an office assistant and refused to hire the best-qualified girl because she could not distinguish Missoni from Marc Jacobs. This girl would have been making tea and running errands. But I didn't challenge the decision not to hire her because I had a policy of picking my battles carefully.

The office was like a Milan catwalk, but with the competitiveness of a Miss World contest - and the low cunning of a mud-wrestling bout.

 

[Rhea]

Yah, I don’t think that article is an indication.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Quite a large number is needed to avoid inbreeding down the road. Eggs and sperm are selected to maximise genetic diversity.

But if you have that level of technology, you can just alter aspects of the DNA on hand to increase whatever factors of diversity would be most efficient for the colony. You don't need to limit yourself to the base characteristics you have on hand. Also, any issues you do end up having due to inbreeding can be edited out at the embryonic level and not be a thing to worry about.

 

[ruby sparks]

We were talking about whih gender is needed most on a space colonizing ship, tho....

Ok, but....unless the spacepersons are teenagers wearing short dresses and showing cleavage........is it an on-topic fantasy?

Just checking. Not saying we shouldn't segue there. Especially if you have pics.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

We were talking about whih gender is needed most on a space colonizing ship, tho....

Ok, but....unless the spacepersons are teenagers wearing short dresses and showing cleavage........is it an on-topic fantasy?

Just checking. Not saying we shouldn't segue there. Especially if you have pics.

Well, it would depend on the environmental conditions. If it's a fairly hot world, you would want light clothing for your colonists. Also, they should be teenagers for a long time since it's a massive waste of resources to send people all the way to an alien planet and develop the skills needed to survive there if they're just going to go and die of old age in a century or two and waste all the knowledge they've accumulated. You'd need either some serious life extension technology or the ability to transfer their brains into younger cloned organisms in order to make the expense of the trip viable.

 

[ruby sparks]

Well, it would depend on the environmental conditions. If it's a fairly hot world, you would want light clothing for your colonists. Also, they should be teenagers for a long time since it's a massive waste of resources to send people all the way to an alien planet and develop the skills needed to survive there if they're just going to go and die of old age in a century or two and waste all the knowledge they've accumulated. You'd need either some serious life extension technology or the ability to transfer their brains into younger cloned organisms in order to make the expense of the trip viable.

As you said, if the scenario involves space travel to colonise other planets, then all sorts of other technologies can also be imagined which would render the fantasy askew if it relies on tomorrow's space technology but today's biotechnology.

In fact, if I were a betting man, I might bet that reproductive technologies are probably going to develop first, of the two.

On top of which I'm still wondering how much use or help 'men are for (or are like) this' and 'women are for (or are like) that' types of paradigms are, when arguably the bigger social issue has more to do with putting at least some more emphasis on co-operation, collaboration, compromise and emphasising commonalities rather than differences (which of course do exist, for a variety of reasons and to various degrees) and in a context where the problems arise mostly from division and divisive attitudes relating to sex and gender, and off the back of a past history of somewhat unnecessarily segregated roles.

 

[Rhea]

We were talking about whih gender is needed most on a space colonizing ship, tho....

Ok, but....unless the spacepersons are teenagers wearing short dresses and showing cleavage........is it an on-topic fantasy?

Just checking. Not saying we shouldn't segue there. Especially if you have pics.

You have a point. I admit this is off-topic.
I will leave he chef to the kitchen and the space ship to the scifi.

 

[Toni]

We were talking about whih gender is needed most on a space colonizing ship, tho....

Ok, but....unless the spacepersons are teenagers wearing short dresses and showing cleavage........is it an on-topic fantasy?

Just checking. Not saying we shouldn't segue there. Especially if you have pics.

You have a point. I admit this is off-topic.
I will leave he chef to the kitchen and the space ship to the scifi.

I will offer my apologies for this seque from why girls dress the way they do to whether men are biologically necessary which is how the topic of interstellar space travel with an all female crew plus banked sperm made sense was introduced. In my defense, I will say that I was merely using space travel efficiencies as one of a few scenarios when ruby didn't understand how I could say that men were unnecessary except for insemination. Or really: sperm generation/donation, as a male doesn't have to be present at insemination. Only the sperm is actually needed. The entire process after sperm donation can easily take place without a male in the building. But I see I am digressing again and possibly upsetting men who don't like to think that they are more dispensable than women when it comes to survival of the species. I only pointed out the relative dispensability of males to counter the arguments some were putting for that of course, girls dressed up in order to signal their readiness for sex with males/mating even if they were too silly and dumb to recognize it as men and boys clearly do.

Anyway, that's how we got on that topic and I apologize if some see it as a derail instead of an illustration of a point or if anyone found it upsetting in any way.

 

[Godless Raven]

You have a point. I admit this is off-topic.
I will leave he chef to the kitchen and the space ship to the scifi.

I will offer my apologies for this seque from why girls dress the way they do to whether men are biologically necessary...

No need to apologize. I'm fairly confident that was the whole purpose of the OP to begin with anyway. We've just arrived there by beating around the bushes.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Well, if this article about an all female employee business is any indication, I think an all female intergenerational spaceship is likely doomed before it gets out of earth orbit.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1168182/Catfights-handbags-tears-toilets-When-producer-launched-women-TV-company-thought-shed-kissed-goodbye-conflict-.html



Although, I will say to the credit of the ladies posting here that it does appear that women dress primarily for other women, and NOT for the pleasure of men:

Fashion was a great divider, though in this battlefield everyone was on their own. Hideously stereotypical and shallow as it sounds, clothes were a huge source of catty comments, from sly remarks about people looking over-dressed to the merits of their fake tan application.

I always felt sorry for anyone who naively showed off a new purchase in the office, because everyone would coo appreciatively to their face - then harshly criticise them as soon as they were out of earshot. This happened without exception.

My deputy, Sarah, the general manager, first showed how much style mattered when she advertised for an office assistant and refused to hire the best-qualified girl because she could not distinguish Missoni from Marc Jacobs. This girl would have been making tea and running errands. But I didn't challenge the decision not to hire her because I had a policy of picking my battles carefully.

The office was like a Milan catwalk, but with the competitiveness of a Miss World contest - and the low cunning of a mud-wrestling bout.

I wouldn't trust anything printed in the Daily Mail. They're not exactly famous for giving a shit about the truth

 

[DrZoidberg]

Quite a large number is needed to avoid inbreeding down the road. Eggs and sperm are selected to maximise genetic diversity.

But if you have that level of technology, you can just alter aspects of the DNA on hand to increase whatever factors of diversity would be most efficient for the colony. You don't need to limit yourself to the base characteristics you have on hand. Also, any issues you do end up having due to inbreeding can be edited out at the embryonic level and not be a thing to worry about.

With that attitude you'll ruin every single science fiction story ever written. I think the main reason it was all women in the first batch was for feminist reasons. I think the author was trying to make a feminist point. It does all go to shit though, so... But it has to go to shit, or they don't have much of a story. It's a good book either way.