Cop Indicted For Murder

[thebeave]

Well, because "thug" and "baby mama" are opinions not factual information and because some people seem to only use those terms for black people.

Since you have no problem with people posting publicly available relevant"information", you would not be upset if posters here posted their fact-based opinions of "racist" or "misogynist" of other posters here at will?

"Baby mama" is factual: It describes a woman who has children out of wedlock.

- - - Updated - - -

The reduction comes from the people automatically defending black criminals. Loren was merely describing this reduction.

Loren REDUCED a HUMAN BEING to the words "a black" - that is the point. Not who/what he believed he was addressing, but his actual choice of words including the words he left out (such as "person")

I know you understand what I am saying. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge what is wrong with the sentence "Anything to defend a black." is a reflection on you, too.

I used "a black" in this case because that was the relevant bit of information: He is being defended because he is black. It's not racism.

Ed Asner summed up this attitude among progressives quite elegantly, when talking about Obama and Syria:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/syria-why-hollywoods-anti-war-623326

Another reason some Hollywood progressives have been reticent to speak out against war in Syria, according to Asner, is fear of being called racist.

"A lot of people don't want to feel anti-black by being opposed to Obama," he said.

 

[Rhea]

Well, because "thug" and "baby mama" are opinions not factual information and because some people seem to only use those terms for black people.

Since you have no problem with people posting publicly available relevant"information", you would not be upset if posters here posted their fact-based opinions of "racist" or "misogynist" of other posters here at will?

"Baby mama" is factual: It describes a woman who has children out of wedlock.

No, it's derogatory and nasty. On purpose. There are other descriptions that are not slathered in disdain. YOu could choose one. If you are a person who is kind.

The reduction comes from the people automatically defending black criminals. Loren was merely describing this reduction.

Loren REDUCED a HUMAN BEING to the words "a black" - that is the point. Not who/what he believed he was addressing, but his actual choice of words including the words he left out (such as "person")

I know you understand what I am saying. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge what is wrong with the sentence "Anything to defend a black." is a reflection on you, too.

I used "a black" in this case because that was the relevant bit of information: He is being defended because he is black. It's not racism.

Loren calling a person "a black" is base nastiness. You should learn to stop it.
Are you really unable to see it, or do you reject that it's nasty? Is it conscious or unconscious?

"a black"
"a shoot / the shoot"

These are horrible things to say.
If you are a person who cares about kindness, you will think, "oh, shit! I didn't know!" and stop.
If you are a person who will on purpose say something nasty and derogatory, knowing it's nasty and derogatory, simply because you can make them hurt without you facing consequences, and you like to see them hurt, then we will see you continue.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Well, because "thug" and "baby mama" are opinions not factual information and because some people seem to only use those terms for black people.

Since you have no problem with people posting publicly available relevant"information", you would not be upset if posters here posted their fact-based opinions of "racist" or "misogynist" of other posters here at will?

"Baby mama" is factual: It describes a woman who has children out of wedlock.

No, Loren, it describes the category of relationship between a father and the mother of his child in a stereotypical black family and alludes to the assumption that black men do not typically marry the mother of their children or even seek to maintain any sort of relationship with them after the children are born. Otherwise the term would be "girlfriend" or "mother of his children."

 

[laughing dog]

"Baby mama" is factual: It describes a woman who has children out of wedlock.

No it doesn't. According to the Urban Dictionary, baby mama can be

The mother of your child(ren), whom you did not marry and with whom you are not currently involved.

(source: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=baby+mama - notice I provided a source for my information).

Further down the it reads

A woman who has a child out of wedlock with a man. She may or may not be in a relationship with the man, but most of the time, she's not. She may think she has some sort of postion or leverage in the man's life, just because she had a child with the man, but all she is, is a baby mama, nothing else. Some baby mamas use the child as a pawn or weapon to "get what they want" from the child's father, IE: money, food, sex, etc. If the man is in a realtionship with a woman who has no children, the baby mama may become jealous and cause baby mama drama.

A stereotype associated with baby mama's is they are poor, lazy bitches who trapped the man into getting her pregnant or tricked him by saying she was on the pill, thinking the man would pay her way in life just because she has a child with him. Not all baby mama's are like that. The majority of them just act like they can control the man just because they had a seed with them, and make it difficult for the man and threaten to take the child away or sue for more child support if the baby mama doesn't get her way.

So, it is true that "baby mama" can be factual description. Then again, so can "racist" or "asshole".

I used "a black" in this case because that was the relevant bit of information: He is being defended because he is black. It's not racism.

Mr. Dubose is not being "defended". The police officer is being faulted for shooting a man for no good reason. The race of Mr. Dubose is not relevant. Hence your conclusion that he is being defended because he is black could very well be misinterpreted as racist.

 

[Godless Raven]

I think it's pretty clear this cop needlessly killed...the black (shout out to Loren )

Personally I think it should be murder or at the very least manslaughter and he should be barred from ever even owning a gun again.

With that said...I don't think Loren saying "a black" was him being racist. Loren's old as phuck IIRC, and that's how lots of people that age talk because that's what they were brought up with.

My grandfather wasn't racist in any way. He treated my best friend, who is a black as if he was his grandson when he was over. Yet...right up until his death, if we were watching boxing together he'd say "man that black boy is really good". I talked with him about it, but he didn't see why saying a young man who was in fact black was a black boy. It kind of made my brain hurt, but he never said it in a derogatory way.

Now calling every black person that gets shot a thug, criminal, goon et al...that's something I find a little less easy to defend.

Show

I'm also not saying he isn't racist. Just that he wasn't overtly being racist on this thread.

 

[abaddon]

He is being defended because he is black.

Weird, all this time I’ve wondered “Why do details about DuBose and whether he’s an upright citizen or not matter?” when the one relevant thing is that a cop has murdered a citizen. This imagination that people are defending a not-thoroughly-upright "black" goes a ways to explain it.

Also, did someone actually say they thought DuBose was surrendering? I don’t remember seeing that but I might have missed it. Or is that another imaginative projection, this time onto words like “he lifted his hands”?

 

[Derec]

No it doesn't. According to the Urban Dictionary, baby mama can be

The mother of your child(ren), whom you did not marry and with whom you are not currently involved.

(source: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=baby+mama - notice I provided a source for my information).

Funny, I do not see any reference to race here.

 

[laughing dog]

No it doesn't. According to the Urban Dictionary, baby mama can be
(source: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=baby+mama - notice I provided a source for my information).

Funny, I do not see any reference to race here.

I never said it did.

 

[atrib]

He is being defended because he is black.

Weird, all this time I’ve wondered “Why do details about DuBose and whether he’s an upright citizen or not matter?” when the one relevant thing is that a cop has murdered a citizen. This imagination that people are defending a not-thoroughly-upright "black" goes a ways to explain it.

It is easier to defend the killings if the victims can be dehumanized. Their words are cowardly because they will not come out openly and say what they so obviously believe.

 

[laughing dog]

And it doesn't matter how stupid you were in putting yourself in harm's way, that has no bearing on self defense. What counts is where the threat is coming from--and in this case it's coming from the guy trying to escape.

For some reason, the DA of Hamilton County, Ohio disagrees with your opinion. Perhaps you should call him up to put him right or volunteer your expert services to this officer. Because it looks like he is going to need all the help he can get.

 

[Derec]

Dubose's past had little or nothing to do with him getting shot in the head at point blank range by a killer cop.

His past had everything to do with it. His license was suspended. That means he would have been arrested when that became obvious to the cop. The cop would likely have found the 2 lbs of marijuana. Given that he already served time for trafficking he was looking at a lengthy sentence as a repeat offender. That's why he tried to flee. If the only thing wrong was the license plate eh would have no reason to run.
As far as "point blank range" - the objection with Michael Brown was that he was too far. Now DuBose is too close. Is there a proper distance police shootings are supposed to be at?

His skin color likely did.

I see no evidence of that.

It is irrelevant that Dubose had a colorful past. He had a right to due process just like any other person in this country.

True. If he got arrested. But when you resist arrest you invite force, and sometimes cops overdo it. Best course of action is not to resist.

The shooting itself may have been a result of criminal incompetence, or of active malice on the part of the killer cop.

I see no evidence of malice.

The cop is the criminal here, because he apparently killed a human being with no cause.

As is DuBose. Driving without license and possession with intent are both crimes.

Your attempts to characterize Dubose as a "thug" and a "baby mama" is nothing but an attempt to distract our attention from the fact that the killer cop is facing criminal charges for his actions. And to dehumanize the VICTIM here, Dubose, so it becomes easier in your mind to justify the killing. This is a consistent pattern of behavior with you and Loren, which leads many of us here to conclude that you are racist.

He would be "baby daddy" of course, and the relevance of that is only inasfar as another example of his general attitude toward life (to not mind the consequences of his actions). Btw, I initially brought up his 13-20 children in a Lounge thread to show that women like "bad boys".

 

[RavenSky]

How in fuck's sake could he have possibly fired with his hand trapped in the car?

It's a handgun--held in one hand.

Which hand was "trapped in the car" and which hand was holding the gun?

 

[Toni]

As usual, the news media trying to throw gas on the fire for the sake of eyeballs.

Your own "evidence" shows that his right hand is still on the steering wheel. That's not surrendering.

I also don't think the officer was grabbing his seat belt. Rather, that's the effect of the car accelerating.

Think very carefuly about who you are calling a liar.

It's clear that "reporter" is a liar.

And I find it ironic that you misspelled carefully.

So, now the reporter is a liar. Way to walk that one back, Loren. Did someone remind you of the TOU?

So, what is the prosecutor? He's a liar, too? EVERY newscaster who sees the video in front of them and thinks it shows something different than what you think, viewing it on the internet via a link (you know what those are, don't you Loren? Links, I mean.) on a message board is a liar? EVERYONE is a liar. Except you whose opinions and perceptions are so far above questioning or reproach of any kind--so god-like-- that you do not need to waste your time backing up your claims with, I don't know: links? Loren says therefore it is true. Huh.

I think it's pretty ironic that you still have been unable to construct a time line that explains events the way you believe they unfold. It must be exhausting acting as a spell check for the entire internet. No wonder you have no time left to back your claims with links or logic or timelines.

Wow, Loren. Just wow. How lame must your point of view be that you have to resort to criticizing people for misspelled words in posts (have you checked YOUR spelling recently?) and calling people liars.

 

[Toni]

It's a handgun--held in one hand.

Which hand was "trapped in the car" and which hand was holding the gun?

Details, details. How can you possibly bother Loren with details. Plus the guy the cop killed was black, so it's not like it matters at all.

 

[abaddon]

His past had everything to do with it.

His past had everything to do with it only if you think backwards.

Even if DuBose had just murdered someone, the policeman could not pull a gun and shoot to prevent him escaping until AFTER he’s got good cause to believe that’s the case.

His skin color likely did.

I see no evidence of that.

81% of Tensing’s tickets this year were given to black drivers, where the rest of the UC police averaged 62%. Tensing had an eye out for black drivers more-so than his colleagues.

Is there a proper distance police shootings are supposed to be at?

Proper causes. Why aren’t you asking about proper causes, about whether the shooting is “supposed to” happen at all in the given situation?

… when you resist arrest you invite force, and sometimes cops overdo it. Best course of action is not to resist.

No shit, but point is that this cop overdid it big-time and a human being who should still be alive is dead from it.

I see no evidence of malice.

It might be there anyway to the extent the pig was not just frightened but really pissed off and intent on stopping the driver at any cost. But the jury, while suspecting there might be malice but knowing there’s incompetence, will likely settle for manslaughter.

As is DuBose. Driving without license and possession with intent are both crimes.

So what? The worst criminal here by far is the policeman, which is much too important to gloss over. If they can kill citizens so easily they’ll go on killing other citizens unless outrage by Americans can force this to stop. Whatever your concern is, obeisance to authority or oppressing thugs till they get jobs and act more servile or whatever, it’s a lesser worry than the safety of American citizens from their own police forces. Or should be.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You see the officer's hands earlier in the stop--no gun.

You're dodging. So when exactly does he draw his gun? While he's running backwards at 7mph and staying ahead of the car?

How about something related to reality? Nobody has said he was going backwards.

And we don't know exactly when the gun came out.

And it doesn't matter how stupid you were in putting yourself in harm's way, that has no bearing on self defense. What counts is where the threat is coming from--and in this case it's coming from the guy trying to escape.

So you're saying that he thought he was more likely to not get run over by shooting the driver than just getting his arm out of the car? So he shoots the driver and !!~PREDICTABLY~!! the dead guy presses on the accelerator making the cop's position worse. I.e. the cop made his own position WORSE by shooting.

What a tool. And a man is now dead because of that tool.
Indicting him was correct.

Once again you show you have no idea of the environment.

While it is possible for something like pressing the accelerator to happen with a headshot it's not likely.

And since the car was moving before the officer fired it's clear the accelerator was pressed before he fired.

- - - Updated - - -

"Baby mama" is factual: It describes a woman who has children out of wedlock.

No, it's derogatory and nasty. On purpose. There are other descriptions that are not slathered in disdain. YOu could choose one. If you are a person who is kind.

The reduction comes from the people automatically defending black criminals. Loren was merely describing this reduction.

Loren REDUCED a HUMAN BEING to the words "a black" - that is the point. Not who/what he believed he was addressing, but his actual choice of words including the words he left out (such as "person")

I know you understand what I am saying. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge what is wrong with the sentence "Anything to defend a black." is a reflection on you, too.

I used "a black" in this case because that was the relevant bit of information: He is being defended because he is black. It's not racism.

Loren calling a person "a black" is base nastiness. You should learn to stop it.
Are you really unable to see it, or do you reject that it's nasty? Is it conscious or unconscious?

"a black"
"a shoot / the shoot"

These are horrible things to say.
If you are a person who cares about kindness, you will think, "oh, shit! I didn't know!" and stop.
If you are a person who will on purpose say something nasty and derogatory, knowing it's nasty and derogatory, simply because you can make them hurt without you facing consequences, and you like to see them hurt, then we will see you continue.

It's derogatory of the lifestyle. It says nothing about the race of the person, thus it is not racial.

- - - Updated - - -

"Baby mama" is factual: It describes a woman who has children out of wedlock.

No, Loren, it describes the category of relationship between a father and the mother of his child in a stereotypical black family and alludes to the assumption that black men do not typically marry the mother of their children or even seek to maintain any sort of relationship with them after the children are born. Otherwise the term would be "girlfriend" or "mother of his children."

While it's more commonly done in the black community there is nothing racial about the term.

It simply refers to women who choose to have a child in a situation with no father in their life.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And it doesn't matter how stupid you were in putting yourself in harm's way, that has no bearing on self defense. What counts is where the threat is coming from--and in this case it's coming from the guy trying to escape.

For some reason, the DA of Hamilton County, Ohio disagrees with your opinion. Perhaps you should call him up to put him right or volunteer your expert services to this officer. Because it looks like he is going to need all the help he can get.

When cases make a big splash DAs tend to charge to win popular support. Whether those charges are accurate or not isn't very important.

- - - Updated - - -

It's a handgun--held in one hand.

Which hand was "trapped in the car" and which hand was holding the gun?

His left hand is caught. His right hand held the gun and fired.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

While it's more commonly done in the black community

Hah!
Citation fucking needed.

It simply refers to women who choose to have a child in a situation with no father in their life.

Those are called "single mothers." That is a term that refers to the woman herself absent of a relationship to the father.

Still wondering why you believe the term "baby mamma" (yes, WITH the misspelling and the deliberate grammatical mistake) is the appropriate factual term here where "baby's mother" or "children's mother" or "mother of his children" or "ex girlfriend" are not.

Those are very different terms, even if they mean the ROUGHLY same thing.

I can hear the difference. Can you?

- - - Updated - - -

His left hand is caught. His right hand held the gun and fired.

No it isn't. His left hand is free to move about inside of the car, and DOES, right up until the moment the shot is fired.

 

[laughing dog]

When cases make a big splash DAs tend to charge to win popular support. Whether those charges are accurate or not isn't very important.

Whose support in conservative (almost Kentucky) Cincinnati, Ohio do you believe this DA is trying to win? The DA has to work with the police, so the DA has a greater incentive to be accurate than, say, some handwaving bootlicker of police authority.

- - - Updated - - -

You're dodging. So when exactly does he draw his gun? While he's running backwards at 7mph and staying ahead of the car?

How about something related to reality? Nobody has said he was going backwards.

And we don't know exactly when the gun came out.

And it doesn't matter how stupid you were in putting yourself in harm's way, that has no bearing on self defense. What counts is where the threat is coming from--and in this case it's coming from the guy trying to escape.

So you're saying that he thought he was more likely to not get run over by shooting the driver than just getting his arm out of the car? So he shoots the driver and !!~PREDICTABLY~!! the dead guy presses on the accelerator making the cop's position worse. I.e. the cop made his own position WORSE by shooting.

What a tool. And a man is now dead because of that tool.
Indicting him was correct.

Once again you show you have no idea of the environment.

While it is possible for something like pressing the accelerator to happen with a headshot it's not likely.

And since the car was moving before the officer fired it's clear the accelerator was pressed before he fired.

- - - Updated - - -

"Baby mama" is factual: It describes a woman who has children out of wedlock.

No, it's derogatory and nasty. On purpose. There are other descriptions that are not slathered in disdain. YOu could choose one. If you are a person who is kind.

The reduction comes from the people automatically defending black criminals. Loren was merely describing this reduction.

Loren REDUCED a HUMAN BEING to the words "a black" - that is the point. Not who/what he believed he was addressing, but his actual choice of words including the words he left out (such as "person")

I know you understand what I am saying. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge what is wrong with the sentence "Anything to defend a black." is a reflection on you, too.

I used "a black" in this case because that was the relevant bit of information: He is being defended because he is black. It's not racism.

Loren calling a person "a black" is base nastiness. You should learn to stop it.
Are you really unable to see it, or do you reject that it's nasty? Is it conscious or unconscious?

"a black"
"a shoot / the shoot"

These are horrible things to say.
If you are a person who cares about kindness, you will think, "oh, shit! I didn't know!" and stop.
If you are a person who will on purpose say something nasty and derogatory, knowing it's nasty and derogatory, simply because you can make them hurt without you facing consequences, and you like to see them hurt, then we will see you continue.

It's derogatory of the lifestyle. It says nothing about the race of the person, thus it is not racial.

- - - Updated - - -

"Baby mama" is factual: It describes a woman who has children out of wedlock.

No, Loren, it describes the category of relationship between a father and the mother of his child in a stereotypical black family and alludes to the assumption that black men do not typically marry the mother of their children or even seek to maintain any sort of relationship with them after the children are born. Otherwise the term would be "girlfriend" or "mother of his children."

While it's more commonly done in the black community there is nothing racial about the term.

It simply refers to women who choose to have a child in a situation with no father in their life.

You're fooling no one but yourself.

 

[Toni]

Once again you show you have no idea of the environment.

While it is possible for something like pressing the accelerator to happen with a headshot it's not likely.

And since the car was moving before the officer fired it's clear the accelerator was pressed before he fired.

Rhea sounds much more well informed about how vehicles move, how fast, and so forth than you do, actually.

More to the point, I think she's actually viewed video instead of repeating the interpretation of some right wing nutjob with an internet connection and/or a camera pointed at his head.