"Coronavirus and the US" or "We are all going to die!!!!"

[Rhea]

Our company is doing weird things that are overreacting, like cancelling several big company communications events “to be cautious,” and doing weird things that are risky, like telling people coming back from China to stay home for only 3 days. Seems like, keep them home for 2 weeks, but don’t cancel big meetings for people who have not been away. Weird.

 

[southernhybrid]

Actually, vaccines are not always that effective because of the time to get them to market and whether they guessed right on which strain to protect against. I always get the most potent vaccine for old people, but I still caught the flu a few years ago, and it developed into pneumonia. I had also had my pneumonia vaccine and booster. The problem with the Wuhan virus is that it seems to develop into pneumonia a lot more than influenza does.

Yes, I'm well aware of that, but oddly enough the only time that my husband and I got the flu was the year that he forgot to get a flu vaccine. We were in our 30s and he has asthma. While I was only sick for about two or three days, he was very ill for over a week. So, apparently, the vaccine has worked for us. This year, the vaccine does contain some of the most potent strains that are infecting people.

I do realize that some people do get ill even after being vaccinated. Sorry you were one of them. Maybe we've just been lucky. Plus, we don't travel, and we tend to be home bodies, so we are probably not as exposed to infections as many other people are

But, then again, I only retired two years ago, and I was around a lot of sick people during the years I spent as a nurse, so maybe I just have a really good immune system. I haven't been sick with any type of infection in well over five years.

Yes, this virus could become a much greater problem than it is right now, but I hate to see people panicking. I read yesterday that people have been hoarding masks, and there is fear that people who really need them, like medical workers and those who have the virus, won't be able to obtain them. Hand washing with soap and water is still the most effective way to prevent the spread of infections. The problem is. that most people, including many health care professionals don't properly wash their hands. Some use sanitizer, which is far less effective than using soap and water, and scrubbing for a least 20 seconds.

 

[southernhybrid]

I found the article I was referring to in my last post.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/29/health/coronavirus-masks-hoarding.html

Even though there are only five cases of Wuhan coronavirus in the United States, the mask hoarding has begun.

Some pharmacies report being entirely sold out of masks. Some popular sellers on Amazon say deliveries will be delayed for weeks.

Although masks actually do little to protect healthy people, the prospect of shortages created by panic buying worries some public health experts.

Masks are thought to slow the spread of disease when they are worn by sick people in crowded places like emergency rooms, offices, subways and buses. By containing coughs and sneezes, masks stop virus-laden droplets from being spewed into the air and onto nearby surfaces.

But hoarding by those who are well means that hospitals, clinics and doctors’ offices could run short. Doctors and nurses treating patients for respiratory infections should wear masks and replace them often — as soon as they become soggy, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says.

The C.D.C. is now reaching out to manufacturers to head off the possibility of shortages, especially in hospitals, an agency official said.

 

[Treedbear]

... Hand washing with soap and water is still the most effective way to prevent the spread of infections. The problem is. that most people, including many health care professionals don't properly wash their hands. Some use sanitizer, which is far less effective than using soap and water, and scrubbing for a least 20 seconds.

How often would doctors and nurses need to wash their hands? If they do this every time between patients won't it dry out their hands terribly? Washing with soap for 20 seconds 20 or more times a day? Maybe disposable rubber gloves would work. Leaving the gloves on while washing or maybe even just hand santizer might be the best solution. I bet hand sanitizer would work just fine on the gloves.

ETA - And btw, what do you have to say about women who insist on having long fingernails. Fingernails are the most difficult place to clean. Especially those really long ones. Whenever a cashier gives hands me change or my discount card and has those long nails I cringe. They should be outlawed.

 

[Copernicus]

... Hand washing with soap and water is still the most effective way to prevent the spread of infections. The problem is. that most people, including many health care professionals don't properly wash their hands. Some use sanitizer, which is far less effective than using soap and water, and scrubbing for a least 20 seconds.

How often would doctors and nurses need to wash their hands? If they do this every time between patients won't it dry out their hands terribly? Washing with soap for 20 seconds 20 or more times a day? Maybe disposable rubber gloves would work. Leaving the gloves on while washing or maybe even just hand santizer might be the best solution. I bet hand sanitizer would work just fine on the gloves...

As frequent cruisers, we have learned not to rely just on the ubiquitous Purell dispensers. We wash our hands frequently--lots of soap and hot water for up to 30 seconds. Still, we both came down with mild colds on our last trip in December. It is just impossible to know when you are touching surfaces that are contaminated. As for rubber gloves, I once saw a teenager cough into his hand before taking a cup of ice cream at a counter on a ship. The server was wearing rubber gloves, but the boy touched those gloves as he took the cup. The server was protected, but not the others getting ice cream from him.

If you are coughing, it is important to cough into a handkerchief or something disposable. You should not use your knuckle, your fist, or your hand to block the cough. In the absence of something else, cough into the crook of an arm. Just don't cross your arms after that. Face masks are for people who are sick or treating the sick. They protect other people from infection. There is no solid evidence that they stop people from getting airborne infections, although they probably do help a little by preventing people from touching their own faces. Most people wear and handle face masks improperly.

 

[southernhybrid]

... Hand washing with soap and water is still the most effective way to prevent the spread of infections. The problem is. that most people, including many health care professionals don't properly wash their hands. Some use sanitizer, which is far less effective than using soap and water, and scrubbing for a least 20 seconds.

How often would doctors and nurses need to wash their hands? If they do this every time between patients won't it dry out their hands terribly? Washing with soap for 20 seconds 20 or more times a day? Maybe disposable rubber gloves would work. Leaving the gloves on while washing or maybe even just hand santizer might be the best solution. I bet hand sanitizer would work just fine on the gloves.

ETA - And btw, what do you have to say about women who insist on having long fingernails. Fingernails are the most difficult place to clean. Especially those really long ones. Whenever a cashier gives hands me change or my discount card and has those long nails I cringe. They should be outlawed.

We are supposed to wash our hands in between each patient, if you work in a hospital or any type of place where infections are common. Doctors are usually the worst offenders according to an infection control nurse who I once worked with, plus I've seen this myself several times.

Yes, washing does dry your skin, but there are soaps that are more moisturizing, plus after finishing with patients, one can use a good moisturizing lotion.

I once did volunteer work in a free clinic. There was only one sink in the place, and it was in my area. I never once saw the doctor who I worked with wash his hands, not even when he changed a dressing on a diabetic's leg ulcer. Gross.

Many hospitals use hand sanitizer because medical professionals are not always very compliant when it comes to good hand washing. Unfortunately those sanitizers aren't effective against the worst infections. You may know that MRSA has been on the rise for years in hospitals. This could probably be prevented in everyone washed their hands in between patients. Nurses aides are the ones who have the most contact with patients. I hate to say it, but they are probably a lot more compliant that other medical personnel.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

5,578 infected and 131 dead.

The comparison to flu deaths is irrelevant--this is still shooting up, we don't know how bad it will get. A few more days and it will pass SARS in infections and deaths currently exceed recoveries--the mortality rate could be as high as 50%.

132 dead
And western doctors are starting to agree with Chinese that it can be spread by people without symptoms.

Taxi drivers refuse service to Chinese in Moscow.

8,235 infected, 171 dead, 143 recovered.

Edit: Another 12,000 suspected in China.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

China's response to this crisis is nothing short of exemplary and is a model for the rest of the world.

Amazing your blind praise of anything communist.

How about the fact they announced the quarantine of Wuhan several hours before implementing it? Epic stupidity, not exemplary!

And the reports on the ground do not match up with Beijing's numbers. This is worse than they are saying.

 

[PyramidHead]

China's response to this crisis is nothing short of exemplary and is a model for the rest of the world.

Amazing your blind praise of anything communist.

How about the fact they announced the quarantine of Wuhan several hours before implementing it? Epic stupidity, not exemplary!

Would you prefer that they didn't announce it? Or that they announced it a day before and let people leave early to escape it? How do you imagine it would work, optimally speaking, to close the border of 11 cities at a moment's notice to prevent the spread of nearly 10 million people?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

China's response to this crisis is nothing short of exemplary and is a model for the rest of the world.

I take it that was meant to be sarcasm?

No, I am being completely sincere. Entire hospitals were built in under a week, vaccines were developed and deployed, millions of people were quarantined, volunteers and medical officials are working around the clock to stem the spread of the infection, and all the while, Hong Kong "protesters" are literally torching the facilities that are needed to save lives and contain the outbreak. China should be aided by every first world nation in this matter.

Despite them calling them "hospitals" they aren't--they are quarantine facilities that provide a certain amount of care.

I don't know about the vaccines one way or another.

Nobody should be working around the clock, especially in a field like medicine. That's how accidents happen. And the doctors at least aren't being given a choice, they are forced to work--mostly with inadequate protective measures. There already have been multiple fatalities due to this.

As for Hong Kong--I don't blame the protesters one bit. I would expect plenty of healthy protesters to end up in them. Hong Kong has 10 cases, they don't need facilities like that yet.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Here's an article about how quickly scientists are working on a vaccine for the new virus.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/28/health/coronavirus-vaccine.html

I almost had to laugh when I read about the efforts to develop a vaccine, because while the mortality rate from influenza is around 1.5%, only half of Americans even bother to get a flu vaccine. Believe what you want, the last time I had the flu was almost 35 years ago. I've gotten my flu vaccine every year since. So, I believe tha, the flu vaccine is usually very effective, but a high percentage of people would rather risk being sick or dying. Plus, even those who get the flu after being vaccinated, almost always have a milder case.

A CDC doctor that I saw on the news two days ago, said that it appeared as if the mortality rate for this new virus was likely to be about 3%, but people are acting like it's 90%, My neighbor said she saw three people in the grocery store wearing masks. yesterday.

Most of the people who have been infected are recovering. Considering the shortage of medical supplies and lack of adequate hospital care, as well as the over crowded conditions in China, I think there's a lot of overreacting going on in the first world countries.

Where are you getting your numbers?

We already have 2% of the infected dead despite the fact that most of the infections are recent and it takes time to die.

Meanwhile, we have 1.7% recovered.

The true death rate is going to end up being over 2%.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

China's response to this crisis is nothing short of exemplary and is a model for the rest of the world.

I take it that was meant to be sarcasm?

The hospital is a bit of a thing, though, I have to wonder what in the heck excavators that are so tightly packed could possibly be accomplishing.

It's probably a case of putting on a show but I can see something they might actually be doing--driving around. A pale imitation of properly compacting the soil but for temporary structures it might be enough.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Looking at the jhu dashboard, the new cases rate seems to be currently linear, which is good news, I think? But it has not yet plateaued, as I expect it to do as soon as the city quarantine date becomes longer ago than the incubation period. And for now, the interesting data about only 110 or so being counted as “recovered” meaning that to date, more people are dead than recovered. That seems like such a huge piece of news that I wonder about the real data and what is missing.


Interesting stuff, from my relatively safe position (we do have a very large number pf travelers from China in our town, currently under quarantine, though only 3 days.)

Yeah, the confirmed line inflected down today. That's very good news if it's the truth. I do not believe the quarantine will be of much value--they announced it hours before implementing it and there are more than 3,000 cases outside the quarantine anyway.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

China's response to this crisis is nothing short of exemplary and is a model for the rest of the world.

Amazing your blind praise of anything communist.

How about the fact they announced the quarantine of Wuhan several hours before implementing it? Epic stupidity, not exemplary!

Would you prefer that they didn't announce it? Or that they announced it a day before and let people leave early to escape it? How do you imagine it would work, optimally speaking, to close the border of 11 cities at a moment's notice to prevent the spread of nearly 10 million people?

By announcing it they caused several hundred thousand people to flee the quarantine area before it was imposed. A disease quarantine should simply be imposed with zero warning.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Nobody should be working around the clock, especially in a field like medicine. That's how accidents happen.

I think they mean the LABS are operating around the clock, not the researchers, but whatever.
Now i'm going to spend time in a meeting trying to imagine what sort of superhero would have their origin story in a coronavirus lab accident.

 

[bilby]

Nobody should be working around the clock, especially in a field like medicine. That's how accidents happen.

I think they mean the LABS are operating around the clock, not the researchers, but whatever.
Now i'm going to spend time in a meeting trying to imagine what sort of superhero would have their origin story in a coronavirus lab accident.

The Sniffler

 

[Worldtraveller]

Nobody should be working around the clock, especially in a field like medicine. That's how accidents happen.

I think they mean the LABS are operating around the clock, not the researchers, but whatever.
Now i'm going to spend time in a meeting trying to imagine what sort of superhero would have their origin story in a coronavirus lab accident.

The Sniffler

The Big Sneeze

 

[PyramidHead]

No, I am being completely sincere. Entire hospitals were built in under a week, vaccines were developed and deployed, millions of people were quarantined, volunteers and medical officials are working around the clock to stem the spread of the infection, and all the while, Hong Kong "protesters" are literally torching the facilities that are needed to save lives and contain the outbreak. China should be aided by every first world nation in this matter.

Despite them calling them "hospitals" they aren't--they are quarantine facilities that provide a certain amount of care.

What is wrong with you? Seriously, are you okay? What would make you say something like that?

Nobody should be working around the clock, especially in a field like medicine. That's how accidents happen. And the doctors at least aren't being given a choice, they are forced to work--mostly with inadequate protective measures. There already have been multiple fatalities due to this.

Evidence, please? The doctors and nurses working on this are incredibly serious about it:



Wuhan nurse cured after being infected with coronavirus

Guo has been a nurse for 15 years. Since the latest pneumonia outbreak, she has worked more than 10 hours a day, tending to severe patients in emergency wards.

She began showing symptoms of fever on the night of Jan 12, with her body temperature reaching 37.8 degrees Celsius as well as a slight stomachache. She was confirmed infected with the novel coronavirus-related pneumonia and was sent to a quarantine ward.

"My experience shows the disease is not so scary. It can be cured," Guo said after returning to work.

As for Hong Kong--I don't blame the protesters one bit. I would expect plenty of healthy protesters to end up in them. Hong Kong has 10 cases, they don't need facilities like that yet.

From Reuters: Anti-government protesters set alight the lobby of a newly built residential building that authorities planned to use as a quarantine facility, as public fears about the coronavirus outbreak intensify in Hong.

Arson is not a reasonable response to building an emergency shelter in case the disease spreads further than it has. Keep defending them and their fight for "democracy" though

 

[bilby]

Well I for one am well prepared for what is to come; I am up to part 24 of R R Haywood's The Undead, so I have a thorough grounding in the appropriate response to the collapse of civilisation.

I have a sledgehammer in the shed, and plenty of tinned food in the larder.

 

[Copernicus]

It's official now: WHO declares global emergency as China virus spreads quickly