"Coronavirus and the US" or "We are all going to die!!!!"

[barbos]

FWIW, I hope you stay healthy. Soap and hot water are the best defense.

It's a third world country here, no such thing as flu shots.

But Russia is not really a third world country. At least, it shouldn't be in reasonably-sized cities. Don't they offer free flu shots every year? From my last two visits to Russia, I got the impression that the standard of living had really risen considerably. Not like in 1997, when there were a lot of people on the streets begging for help.

A free flu shot would likely pay for itself, since influenza is a burden on national economies. The US suffers from the fact that only people with insurance, including Medicare recipients like myself, are entitled to free flu shots. A lot of people never bother with the extra out-of-pocket expense.

OK, I googled, apparently there are free flue shots in Moscow and for ~1500 rubles tone can get import (better) one.

Don't know about here. I just don't trust Russian doctors, not after hearing stories about nurses infecting people with HIV.

 

[Copernicus]

Well, if you avoid intercourse with nurses, you might be able to get a flu shot safely.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

FWIW, I hope you stay healthy. Soap and hot water are the best defense.

It's a third world country here, no such thing as flu shots.

But Russia is not really a third world country. At least, it shouldn't be in reasonably-sized cities. Don't they offer free flu shots every year? From my last two visits to Russia, I got the impression that the standard of living had really risen considerably. Not like in 1997, when there were a lot of people on the streets begging for help.

A free flu shot would likely pay for itself, since influenza is a burden on national economies. The US suffers from the fact that only people with insurance, including Medicare recipients like myself, are entitled to free flu shots. A lot of people never bother with the extra out-of-pocket expense.

OK, I googled, apparently there are free flue shots in Moscow and for ~1500 rubles tone can get import (better) one.

Don't know about here. I just don't trust Russian doctors, not after hearing stories about nurses infecting people with HIV.

You heard stories about the nurses, so you don't trust the doctors?

 

[southernhybrid]

Hopeful news

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/03/world/asia/coronavirus-china.html?algo=top_conversion&fellback=false&imp_id=153972019&imp_id=315861667&action=click&module=trending&pgtype=Article&region=Footer#link-7bdaa62c

The death toll from the new coronavirus has exceeded that of the severe acute respiratory syndrome outbreak in 2002 and 2003 in mainland China. But the number of people who have recovered nationwide has also risen in recent days, suggesting that the new virus’s fatality rate is relatively low.

China’s Health Commission reported on Sunday that there were 475 recoveries and 361 deaths nationwide. During the SARS outbreak, 349 people died in mainland China.

Health experts say they are encouraged by the steady rise in the number of recoveries. They take it as evidence that the treatments meted out have been effective and that the virus does not appear to be as deadly as SARS.

To sum it up. So far it looks as if the mortality rate for the new virus in relatively low, compared to SARS.

SARS had a mortality rate of 9.6 percent, and about 2 percent of those reported to have been infected with the new coronavirus have died.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The hospital is a bit of a thing, though, I have to wonder what in the heck excavators that are so tightly packed could possibly be accomplishing.

It's probably a case of putting on a show but I can see something they might actually be doing--driving around. A pale imitation of properly compacting the soil but for temporary structures it might be enough.

If you wanted compaction, you could just drive four or five sheepfoots out there. I'm watching the video and thinking, what could they be doing? There isn't any room to excavate. There are quicker ways to compact. I don't see a proof roller or a grader. There are literally dozens of excavators out there doing the Harlem Shake. Also, the color of that soil freaks the heck out of me.

While there are better tools for the job you have to get them to the jobsite. Using the tools already at hand could save time.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's buildings with beds and nurses.

...or to use the English word, "Hospitals".

No. Hospitals have substantial medical facilities. This is more akin to the places akin to nursing homes that are used when the patient doesn't need a hospital but can't go home yet.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/03/world/asia/coronavirus-china.html?algo=top_conversion&fellback=false&imp_id=153972019&imp_id=315861667&action=click&module=trending&pgtype=Article®ion=Footer#link-7bdaa62c

The death toll from the new coronavirus has exceeded that of the severe acute respiratory syndrome outbreak in 2002 and 2003 in mainland China. But the number of people who have recovered nationwide has also risen in recent days, suggesting that the new virus’s fatality rate is relatively low.

China’s Health Commission reported on Sunday that there were 475 recoveries and 361 deaths nationwide. During the SARS outbreak, 349 people died in mainland China.

Health experts say they are encouraged by the steady rise in the number of recoveries. They take it as evidence that the treatments meted out have been effective and that the virus does not appear to be as deadly as SARS.

To sum it up. So far it looks as if the mortality rate for the new virus in relatively low, compared to SARS.

SARS had a mortality rate of 9.6 percent, and about 2 percent of those reported to have been infected with the new coronavirus have died.

While the recovery rate is climbing that doesn't mean we have enough data to put any reasonable estimate on the mortality rate.

 

[steve_bank]

Don't believe anything from the Chinese government. They are hopelessly fearful of any bad press. Conflicts with the propaganda image of Chinese communist party superiority.

 

[barbos]

Dead 425
infected 20,438

 

[PyramidHead]

Don't believe anything from the Chinese government. They are hopelessly fearful of any bad press. Conflicts with the propaganda image of Chinese communist party superiority.

You are trafficking in racist stereotypes. The image of a shifty, duplicitous Chinese hivemind that cannot be trusted is older than your great-grandparents and has no basis in fact.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Don't believe anything from the Chinese government. They are hopelessly fearful of any bad press. Conflicts with the propaganda image of Chinese communist party superiority.

Agreed.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

While the recovery rate is climbing that doesn't mean we have enough data to put any reasonable estimate on the mortality rate.

It does work both ways. The sickest will be seeking help, and those who aren't really that sick won't, so it is more likely that they are undercounting the infected.

This is in no way an excuse not to panic though. In fact, we might be running out of time to panic!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Don't believe anything from the Chinese government. They are hopelessly fearful of any bad press. Conflicts with the propaganda image of Chinese communist party superiority.

You are trafficking in racist stereotypes. The image of a shifty, duplicitous Chinese hivemind that cannot be trusted is older than your great-grandparents and has no basis in fact.

This has nothing to do with race, the problem is cultural. The norm over there is cheat whenever you can.

Simple data point: Every time we go over there we are carrying mundane items for her relatives because they trust the stuff from the US much more than the "same" thing from China. Yes, even when it's a made-in-China product.

 

[steve_bank]

Don't believe anything from the Chinese government. They are hopelessly fearful of any bad press. Conflicts with the propaganda image of Chinese communist party superiority.

You are trafficking in racist stereotypes. The image of a shifty, duplicitous Chinese hivemind that cannot be trusted is older than your great-grandparents and has no basis in fact.

In this case it is reality. Reports getting out are pretty grim. They are totally unprepared for this. As with the Fukushima nuclear duster in Japan cultural norms of hierarchical social strictures plus the Chinese obsessive central control inhibited individual initiative and action.

In what for Japan was an astonishing admission the final report cited cultural norms leading to inhibition of fast action at the start that would have made a difference. P ;mow people who have worked there. You do not take action on your own initiative lest you make the guy above you look bad.

China has a rigidly enforced central control.

NPR has been giving on the ground reports from reporters who are stuck there. People are put in rooms and forgotten. No care or treatment. The city at the epicenter looks like a ghost town, no one in the streets. People are terrified and not being given any information. It is looking line an apocalypse movie.

If it gets into a country with little medical infrastructure it would be a nightmare.

 

[Copernicus]

Don't believe anything from the Chinese government. They are hopelessly fearful of any bad press. Conflicts with the propaganda image of Chinese communist party superiority.

You are trafficking in racist stereotypes. The image of a shifty, duplicitous Chinese hivemind that cannot be trusted is older than your great-grandparents and has no basis in fact.

To be fair, Steve only talks about the Chinese government, not the Chinese people. And his point is correct. That government is hopelessly fearful of bad press, although I think that they have learned a lesson from initial attempts to suppress information about the current epidemic. I think that they may now realize that it is a bad idea to cover up outbreaks of contagious diseases. The Chinese Communist government wants to appear infallible, but they also need to maintain international credibility.

 

[barbos]

Dead 492
Infected 24,553 (3,223 in critical condition)

 

[steve_bank]

And they have no free press. There is little or no independent investigative reporting of government issues.

Other than on the ground reports from western reporters we have no idea what is really going on.

It is off topic, but China culturally has its own minorities with racism and bias. Not just the Muslims who are being sent to 'reeducation camps'. Asia has its own biases unrelated to the west.

The former Washington governor Locke has parents or grandparents who were immigrants from China. When he went to China as ambassador he was called a 'white banana' in the press. It is a derogatory slur used to describe those of Chinese ancestry living in the west who feel no connection to the motherland. Yellow skin on the outside and white inside.

 

[PyramidHead]

And they have no free press. There is little or no independent investigative reporting of government issues.

Other than on the ground reports from western reporters we have no idea what is really going on.

It is off topic, but China culturally has its own minorities with racism and bias. Not just the Muslims who are being sent to 'reeducation camps'. Asia has its own biases unrelated to the west.

The former Washington governor Locke has parents or grandparents who were immigrants from China. When he went to China as ambassador he was called a 'white banana' in the press. It is a derogatory slur used to describe those of Chinese ancestry living in the west who feel no connection to the motherland. Yellow skin on the outside and white inside.

State media in China is more objective than state media of other countries, such as Great Britain or the US, and at least it's transparently run by the state rather than a private corporate partnership with political forces such as Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, etc. But this is only a part of the media there, and many independent outlets exist. Even among the state outlets, there is a variety of ideological opinion; the party oversight is just there to ensure that rumors are not spread, that criticism is constructive, that outright lies are not presented as truth, and so on. Anyone living in the US really has no business talking about a free press, or criticizing the media of a country that is trying to protect itself from the effects of Western distortions of reality.

I get a lot of perspectives about Chinese life and culture from the r/sino subreddit. You should check out this thread:

https://old.reddit.com/r/Sino/comments/cj0ih8/how_is_the_situation_in_china_concerning/

State run media: Some, but not all the media is state-run. State run media generally gives a more unbiased view regarding to what’s happening. Other private own media sometimes publish news without fully investigating the event, or intentionally over exaggerate the situation for viewership. So state run media is actually relied upon by many people.

Different opinions: quite a few, as long as it’s not against the fundamentals of the government. AFAIK people in many cities protested against biochemical factories to be built in their cities, and most of them succeeded. As for policies directly from the government, China is now encouraging couples to have more than 1 child, which is not very welcomed on the internet. I have seen quite a lot of people criticizing that policy. Shanghai now also has the strictest wast sorting rules in the country as a trial run. Many people complained it, but it’s still there. The government pays attention to the people’s opinions and they sometimes adjust their policies based on the opinions.

Censorship: heavy. From the smallest things such as no blood in games, no cigarettes in TV shows, no pornography or anything related to sex in any art forms (books, videos, paintings, etc.) to larger ones such as limited access to the global network, or the Great FireWall as you might know. The general reason for doing so is ‘to protect the children from bad influences’, which on a certain degree makes sense. But this kind of ‘one size fits all’ policy is not what we like, but it’s there. There are signs of reform, but it takes time. This part might sounds weird to you, but I actually think the firewall is good for the country. For those who don’t know how to get a VPN or who don’t want to get a VPN, getting outside information does then no help. Probably all they care about is eat shit and die. For those who use VPN for porn only they don’t care either. For other people who use VPN to gather information and learn about the world, they are ready to accept different opinions and think critically, so most of them are able to tell valuable information from biased opinions.

So overall, the government wants stability and unification, so they can develop the country as well as maintain their regime. The people also understand that in order to develop the country, it has to be stable. Massive riots aren’t uncommon in Chinese history, and none of them helped the country to thrive. Most Chinese people know there’re still a lot of problems in this country, but they have faith in this government.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Don't believe anything from the Chinese government. They are hopelessly fearful of any bad press. Conflicts with the propaganda image of Chinese communist party superiority.

You are trafficking in racist stereotypes. The image of a shifty, duplicitous Chinese hivemind that cannot be trusted is older than your great-grandparents and has no basis in fact.

In this case it is reality. Reports getting out are pretty grim. They are totally unprepared for this. As with the Fukushima nuclear duster in Japan cultural norms of hierarchical social strictures plus the Chinese obsessive central control inhibited individual initiative and action.

In what for Japan was an astonishing admission the final report cited cultural norms leading to inhibition of fast action at the start that would have made a difference. P ;mow people who have worked there. You do not take action on your own initiative lest you make the guy above you look bad.

China has a rigidly enforced central control.

NPR has been giving on the ground reports from reporters who are stuck there. People are put in rooms and forgotten. No care or treatment. The city at the epicenter looks like a ghost town, no one in the streets. People are terrified and not being given any information. It is looking line an apocalypse movie.

If it gets into a country with little medical infrastructure it would be a nightmare.

The BBC also agrees--people in Wuhan aren't seeking care even when dying because at least they're more comfortable at home. The system is simply totally overwhelmed and isn't delivering any meaningful care.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And they have no free press. There is little or no independent investigative reporting of government issues.

Other than on the ground reports from western reporters we have no idea what is really going on.

It is off topic, but China culturally has its own minorities with racism and bias. Not just the Muslims who are being sent to 'reeducation camps'. Asia has its own biases unrelated to the west.

The former Washington governor Locke has parents or grandparents who were immigrants from China. When he went to China as ambassador he was called a 'white banana' in the press. It is a derogatory slur used to describe those of Chinese ancestry living in the west who feel no connection to the motherland. Yellow skin on the outside and white inside.

State media in China is more objective than state media of other countries, such as Great Britain or the US, and at least it's transparently run by the state rather than a private corporate partnership with political forces such as Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, etc. But this is only a part of the media there, and many independent outlets exist. Even among the state outlets, there is a variety of ideological opinion; the party oversight is just there to ensure that rumors are not spread, that criticism is constructive, that outright lies are not presented as truth, and so on. Anyone living in the US really has no business talking about a free press, or criticizing the media of a country that is trying to protect itself from the effects of Western distortions of reality.

I get a lot of perspectives about Chinese life and culture from the r/sino subreddit. You should check out this thread:

https://old.reddit.com/r/Sino/comments/cj0ih8/how_is_the_situation_in_china_concerning/

State run media: Some, but not all the media is state-run. State run media generally gives a more unbiased view regarding to what’s happening. Other private own media sometimes publish news without fully investigating the event, or intentionally over exaggerate the situation for viewership. So state run media is actually relied upon by many people.

Different opinions: quite a few, as long as it’s not against the fundamentals of the government. AFAIK people in many cities protested against biochemical factories to be built in their cities, and most of them succeeded. As for policies directly from the government, China is now encouraging couples to have more than 1 child, which is not very welcomed on the internet. I have seen quite a lot of people criticizing that policy. Shanghai now also has the strictest wast sorting rules in the country as a trial run. Many people complained it, but it’s still there. The government pays attention to the people’s opinions and they sometimes adjust their policies based on the opinions.

Censorship: heavy. From the smallest things such as no blood in games, no cigarettes in TV shows, no pornography or anything related to sex in any art forms (books, videos, paintings, etc.) to larger ones such as limited access to the global network, or the Great FireWall as you might know. The general reason for doing so is ‘to protect the children from bad influences’, which on a certain degree makes sense. But this kind of ‘one size fits all’ policy is not what we like, but it’s there. There are signs of reform, but it takes time. This part might sounds weird to you, but I actually think the firewall is good for the country. For those who don’t know how to get a VPN or who don’t want to get a VPN, getting outside information does then no help. Probably all they care about is eat shit and die. For those who use VPN for porn only they don’t care either. For other people who use VPN to gather information and learn about the world, they are ready to accept different opinions and think critically, so most of them are able to tell valuable information from biased opinions.

So overall, the government wants stability and unification, so they can develop the country as well as maintain their regime. The people also understand that in order to develop the country, it has to be stable. Massive riots aren’t uncommon in Chinese history, and none of them helped the country to thrive. Most Chinese people know there’re still a lot of problems in this country, but they have faith in this government.

So, you found a Chinese government agent posting stuff that doesn't pass the laugh test.

No pornography or anything related to sex? I've seen porn being offered for sale on the streets of Shanghai. Admittedly censored but that's because it complied with Hong Kong laws (that's where most Chinese language porn would come from.) Since the internet has gotten the bandwidth for porn distribution I haven't seen it anymore, though. I've seen plenty of topless artwork for sale in Shanghai. (I'm singling out Shanghai because I have far more experience with it than with other cities. I see no reason to think things are different elsewhere.)

And the big things VPNed out are sites that either say what's going on in the world or sites that allow distribution of messages that the government can't censor. Note that this includes Dropbox and every competitor I'm aware of. And if they didn't care about the people with the ability to get around the firewall it wouldn't be a continual cat & mouse game to get past it, especially in the leadup to any big political event.

Why does their Great Firewall include the Great Cannon--state DDOS attacks against sites that say things the government doesn't want said?