• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

Could Trump resign within 60 days?

Don2 (Don1 Revised)

Contributor
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Messages
13,641
Location
USA
Basic Beliefs
non-practicing agnostic
Right now, he's got Stormy Daniels legal and reputation trouble, probably Melania is pissed, Mueller's up his ass, his son is getting a divorce...even some conservatives are finding out he's a lying turd. A lot of pressure...and I am sure he can deal with pressure, no problem. But this is also more than pressure, it's life-long implications--getting impeached, sons going to jail, grand kids living with single mother...and for what? He probably makes less money than he would as a pure businessman on a board somewhere.

The actual cost-benefit from a rational standpoint has him as a HYUUuuge loser if he stays. If he leaves, he benefits financially and family relationships might not get broken up. If with retiring he can also secure a Richard Nixon-style pardon from Mike Pence, the only thing he's lost is time and dignity. He can regain dignity by narcissistically lying--blame the liberal media, the deep state, Fusion GPS/whatever, ... He can even still be Twitler at 3am in the morning after leaving with absolutely no legal or family consequences. Many people can believe him and he can continue to tell lies to keep his reputation.

But right now Mueller is coming and it's something very big. Staying means big trouble.

[/stream of consciousness]
 
I think it's possible. I don't see any way out of the Presidency for him that is going to be good for him in any way, either in terms of reputation that even he in his delusion cannot deny or in terms of real trouble for him, such as prison.

Regarding Stormy Daniels, I doubt he's concerned about his reputation there. He doesn't give a flying fuck what anyone thinks of his personal escapades and debauchery. I heard someone say recently that the reason he cares about the rumored pee tape and Stormy Daniels (as opposed to not caring about literally every other woman who has complained and spoken out about his sexist behavior) is that Daniels and the sex tape would reveal actual evidence of sexual activity and he most likely has a prenup with Melania that would cost him huge if he were caught cheating. Just speculation, of course, but doesn't it make sense?
 
Will a resignation even save him at this point? I have a feeling Mueller's investigation has uncovered more than just election and campaign shenanigans. If he's been laundering money the way it appears he has, his ass, and some of his family is doing jail time.
 
Will a resignation even save him at this point? I have a feeling Mueller's investigation has uncovered more than just election and campaign shenanigans. If he's been laundering money the way it appears he has, his ass, and some of his family is doing jail time.

Good point. At least in office there is still the constitutional question of how and if a sitting President can be indicted. Flimsy, but it's something.
 
Will a resignation even save him at this point? I have a feeling Mueller's investigation has uncovered more than just election and campaign shenanigans. If he's been laundering money the way it appears he has, his ass, and some of his family is doing jail time.

I think Mike Pence would take a deal from Grump. In exchange for being handed the Presidency, he could pardon all trump campaign members.
 
I wish you weren't, but you are vastly underestimating:

1)The number of Trump supporters
2)The certainty amongst Trump supporters that he does done no wrong and is doing a great job *or*
3)The belief amongst Trump supporter that while Trump is far from clean, it is a fraction of the evil and corruption that Obama and Hillary created.

I don't like it but I can't deny it exists. Ask Trausti if you doubt me. Or Humbleman if he is still around.
 
I wish you weren't, but you are vastly underestimating:

1)The number of Trump supporters
2)The certainty amongst Trump supporters that he does done no wrong and is doing a great job *or*
3)The belief amongst Trump supporter that while Trump is far from clean, it is a fraction of the evil and corruption that Obama and Hillary created.

I don't like it but I can't deny it exists. Ask Trausti if you doubt me. Or Humbleman if he is still around.

Trump supporters only control their own voices and maybe influence over other Trump supporters and maybe a little bit over their representatives, but Republicans in office are now getting pounded left and right (no pun intended) by progressives to do something about Trump. The people in office (not Bubba the ammosexual) are now starting to vocalize some opposition to Trump. Numerous high profile Republicans have made clear statements against Trump's desire to fire Mueller, and today at least one (McCain) spoke out against Trump's congratulating Putin on the Russian election. At best, Trump supporters are confused and their manufactured rage becoming more impotent by the day.

Also, the Justice Dept doesn't care what Trump supporters like or don't like.
 
Will a resignation even save him at this point? I have a feeling Mueller's investigation has uncovered more than just election and campaign shenanigans. If he's been laundering money the way it appears he has, his ass, and some of his family is doing jail time.

Oh I hope so...
 
Trump supporters only control their own voices and maybe influence over other Trump supporters and maybe a little bit over their representatives, but Republicans in office are now getting pounded left and right (no pun intended) by progressives to do something about Trump. The people in office (not Bubba the ammosexual) are now starting to vocalize some opposition to Trump. Numerous high profile Republicans have made clear statements against Trump's desire to fire Mueller, and today at least one (McCain) spoke out against Trump's congratulating Putin on the Russian election. At best, Trump supporters are confused and their manufactured rage becoming more impotent by the day.

Also, the Justice Dept doesn't care what Trump supporters like or don't like.

Republicans have made statements about Trump for years. Nothing has happened as a result. Republicans were concerned about the Muslim ban, Comey getting fired, Shithole country remarks, Ivanka representing the US in formal functions, Trump wanting to take the guns first, due process second etc. And every time when push became shove the option taken was party over politics. McCain is the best example of this (see "nuclear option"). Maybe I'm too cynical for my own good, maybe my brain has reached saturation point on the stupidity reported on a daily basis, but there really hasn't been that much of a change to warrant McConnell or Ryan or Lindsey Graham to do a 180 on their support on Trump. Enough people have hitched their wagons to him for him to be protected.
 
I wish you weren't, but you are vastly underestimating:

1)The number of Trump supporters
2)The certainty amongst Trump supporters that he does done no wrong and is doing a great job *or*
3)The belief amongst Trump supporter that while Trump is far from clean, it is a fraction of the evil and corruption that Obama and Hillary created.

I don't like it but I can't deny it exists. Ask Trausti if you doubt me. Or Humbleman if he is still around.

I think this observation has most relevance as it pertains to Trump impeachment since it could impact the House members. Both houses of Congress though might become Dem in Nov. Maybe that could extend the timeline. However, there is still a lot to lose for Trump, to include the continual wrecking of his family which is all his and their fault....and possibly his sons getting indicted. Those things could all happen well prior to November and are not really impacted by the House members.
 
The Republicans are certainly acting in a way indicating they think it is both possible for him to resign or make it to the next election in 2020.
 
I hope he does resign, but to me, it appears as if he lacks any kind of self awareness and has probably convinced himself that he's done nothing wrong. Look at all the things he got away with when he was a business man! I'm still holding onto hope that the sex scandals will bring him down, but any way we can get rid of him would be a positive. Then we have to deal with Pence, which might be almost as bad, considering his obvious lack of rational thought. No wait. Pence is simply dumb and a religious zealot. 2020 can't come soon enough!
 
Then we have to deal with Pence, which might be almost as bad,
Well, second worst outcome, he pardons Trump, like Ford/Nixon, and becomes a lame duck like Ford. Trump, meanwhile, is left to deal with a series of state-level crimes unearthed by Mueller, but no Federal jail time. He mouths off for the next 30 years about how he COULD have MAGA-ed, if it hadn't been for the libs.

Worst outcome, I think, he does NOT pardon Trump. Trump's ensuing trials swamp the media in a way that makes the OJ Trial look like filler material. And no one notices a single thing Pence enacts, legislates, outlaws, cripples or nationalizes.
 
Pence won’t be a problem. He will be presiding over a disgraced presidency that taints his own legacy as much as anyone else’s. He will have no choice but to equally renounce Trump and anything to do with Trump. Consider the dance macabre that will ensue once Mueller indicts Trump. There will be a whole long reveal of the evidence—then a lengthy debate over the strength of the evidence—and likely a lot of noise from the deplorables (perhaps even riots).

But the evidence can’t be denied by those in power once it’s finally revealed. It won’t matter what the nazis do in east bumfuckistan. Which means the Republicans that have been blowing Trump’s horn will likewise have little choice but to join in the fray. Not all of them, of course. There will be a few cowards (and a few bought and paid for) that will defend him to the death, but that will all be primarily for their constituents, which will mean deeply red states and no blue fringe (which is the concern).

Iow, the already tiny 15-20% of Americans that are still diehard Trump supporters will be significantly reduced once the full extent of the evidence against him is presented. Maybe 10-15% will simply never let their fuhrer die, but that represents the normal every day radical right wing no matter what. The concern in regard to Trump supporters is really the “independents” and/or the turncoat Dems that swung toward him. But most of them have already swung back (or at least away) and the rest are simply remaining silent until Mueller's investigation is completed.

Iow, the noise we are hearing from the right does not equal the number of mouths keeping shut. By the time those mouths open--assuming, of course, that Mueller has put all the pieces together and can fully evidence them all--there will no longer be any concern about massive numbers of Trump supporters that Republicans need to appease or else lose their seats.

Speaking of which, in the meantime, we will have likely regained control over at least the House by the time all of this plays out, but even if not, it will be too easy to shut Pence down. All anyone would have to say is, “That seems like something Trump wanted” or the like.

Just think in terms of the sea-change when Nixon left office and the enormous impact the event itself--the cowardly resignation of a corrupt President to avoid impeachment--had on the American "psyche." The difference between wanting something to happen and then seeing it happen is tremendous. For a better example, think of how we were all so sure we would be seeing the first female President and then the change that occurred—the shockwave that went through the American zeitgeist—the day after when we all woke up to a living nightmare.

It isn't just one guy leaves and another takes his place. There has been a mounting sense of criminality--the crowds forming with pitchforks, only this time it's not nazis--and a belief that a great wrong is about to be corrected. If that happens, the event itself will have its own momentum that will simply crush anyone still trying to hold on to any element of pre-impeachment Trump.

The majority of Americans do not like or want Trump in office right now. That won’t change. What will change is more will come over to our side once the full extent of criminality is revealed. Again, not all, but more than enough to make it very clear that America as a whole wants nothing to do with any vestiges of Trump's Presidency, so if Pence thinks he’ll be able to just keep that up in any way—to become Trump II—that just won’t happen.

Well, let me hedge that since we’re still in the upside down. That will likely not happen. No mandate; no support; no power over Congress; tainted by his association with the first President to have been impeached over treasonous activity, if not money laundering/criminal acts; etc. And with Trump it will be a bare knuckle boot to the balls fight, no doubt; but a fight he can't win and no matter what, (most) everyone abandons the loser of such a fight.

ETA: The REAL horror (of course) would be if Mueller can't get to Trump. Anything short of indicting Trump will be a victory for Trump and we'll be in tremendous trouble in the midterms, if not 2020. Though I don't see 2020 as too much of a problem even if Trump is vindicated. He can't seem to help but shoot himself in the foot.
 
Last edited:
Why would Trump resign? He has managed to avoid any serious difficulties and misdeeds in the past. Given his ego and his stubbornness, I do not see him resigning.

I hope he does not resign, because Pence as President will make Trump look like a dream. Pence is more decorous, but make no mistake about it - he is a hard-right Christian ideologue. President's have lots of power over the federal bureaucracy. If you think Trump's picks and policies are bad, you can expect faith-based idiocy from Pence.
 
Why would Trump resign?

To avoid jail and/or the loss of his entire family fortune (if allegations of money laundering are included in any indictments). A presidential pardon necessarily requires the recipient to be guilty. Accepting it is in fact considered an admission of guilt. If Trump is indicted on money-laundering and he accepts a pardon from Pence, then he may not see any jail time, but that would not necessarily mean he doesn't lose his fortune.

He has managed to avoid any serious difficulties and misdeeds in the past.

As a private citizen and in regard (primarily) to civil lawsuits and bankruptcy issues. Being accused of treason and/or money laundering as a sitting President is a completely different set of circumstances.

Given his ego and his stubbornness, I do not see him resigning.

Not without a fight, certainly, but it all depends (of course) on the extent of the evidence/charges against him, if any. There is always a possibility that Trump has sufficiently isolated himself from any direct wrong-doings.

I hope he does not resign, because Pence as President will make Trump look like a dream. Pence is more decorous, but make no mistake about it - he is a hard-right Christian ideologue. President's have lots of power over the federal bureaucracy. If you think Trump's picks and policies are bad, you can expect faith-based idiocy from Pence.

Many have made this point, but as in my previous post, it does not take into account what a massive impact/sea change that will occur if Mueller has in fact uncovered all the smoking guns. Pence would be just as castrated as Trump would be. Especially if he pardoned Trump. It's one thing to pardon Nixon, as that was unprecedented and no one had the experience of a Nixon White House/Watergate before it to understand the full impact of it all, but we do. And if Trump is indicted for treason--not merely bugging a rival's office and then trying to cover it up--that's several steps up the ladder. Pence would have pardoned a traitor (and Trump, in accepting the pardon, would be tacitly admitting to being a traitor).
 
Last edited:
Short answer -- No...
Long answer -- No...

Il Douchebag likes being da Prez too much. With the ultimate power to f[censored] over the world and have people look up to it on a pedestal.

Later,
ElectEngr
 
No resignation, no way. No one who self-identifies as a deity consents to any kind of demotion. If he ever is kicked out on his ass, he'll be orating and pouting his lips and turning shades of coral and violet as they escort him out.
Trump found out on his 5-year Birther Tour that there was absolutely no price to be paid for continual, outrageous lies. He found his love crowd -- the Trumpanzees -- and they quicken to his lies, his sleazy "sleepy-eyed-son-of-a-bitch"es, his virulent hatreds.
It is quite possible that Trump will lie his way out of any/every accusation -- he will muddy the waters so that firing Comey was simply Pres. prerogative, that Stormy was a private matter, that the Deep State is obviously on a witch hunt, that the press is fake news, etc, etc, etc, etc. The Congress he has right now does not have the balls to take him on. In our system, he can survive. He has also -- quite probably -- coarsened our culture for years & years to come. A loathsome, sleazy individual who continues to damage the basic structures of our democracy. A tragedy playing out before us.
 
To avoid jail and/or the loss of his entire family fortune (if allegations of money laundering are included in any indictments). A presidential pardon necessarily requires the recipient to be guilty.
No, it does not. Nixon was pardoned even though he was not found guilty.
Accepting it is in fact considered an admission of guilt. If Trump is indicted on money-laundering and he accepts a pardon from Pence, then he may not see any jail time, but that would not necessarily mean he doesn't lose his fortune.
I think the idea that President Trump will be indicted for anything is far-fetched and wishful thinking.


As a private citizen and in regard (primarily) to civil lawsuits and bankruptcy issues. Being accused of treason and/or money laundering as a sitting President is a completely different set of circumstances.
I agree. ANd I think it is wishful thinking that such charges will ever be brought against him, let alone within the next 60 days.


Many have made this point, but as in my previous post, it does not take into account what a massive impact/sea change that will occur if Mueller has in fact uncovered all the smoking guns. Pence would be just as castrated as Trump would be. Especially if he pardoned Trump. It's one thing to pardon Nixon, as that was unprecedented and no one had the experience of a Nixon White House/Watergate before it to understand the full impact of it all, but we do. And if Trump is indicted for treason--not merely bugging a rival's office and then trying to cover it up--that's several steps up the ladder. Pence would have pardoned a traitor (and Trump, in accepting the pardon, would be tacitly admitting to being a traitor).
My guess is Pence has already insulated himself from the Trump sleaze. And, I think Pence is smart enough to not pardon Trump for something like treason. So, I think a Pence presidency would make most people want Trump back.
 
Back
Top Bottom