Covid-19 miscellany

[TomC]

I thought that Republicans used to argue that businesses should be able to hire, fire or refuse service to anyone.

More than a little ironic, I agree.

Of course, there's a flip side to this.
Some people are OK with forcing bakers to bake certain cakes because the law says. They don't think that private operations should be allowed to do business their own way either.
Tom

 

[repoman]

I do see this as a thorny problem without easy answers. I've got a relative with health issues who really wants a vaccination. But her doctor strongly recommended against it, due to ugly reactions to previous vaccinations. I don't understand the details. It happens.

I don't know what to do.
Except this. If all the people who should get it did we'd lick this fast and she wouldn't be in such danger. Makes me very testy with people who can and should, but just won't.
Tom

High level of agreement with you. Also, will possible nasal vaccines coming up help with levels of vaccine reaction?

The only other aspect is that this could have had much more coverage in the rest of the world with governments forcing vaccine IP open for THIS round of vaccines. Also with many billions thrown in to physical plant and transportation and refrigeration. Manhattan Project level.

Pfizer loses a bit of money up front but gets it back later. Something like should have happened and should still happen now.

 

[Toni]

The anti-vaxxers i have met are demanding that they can choose not to get a shot AND that they suffer no inconveniences for this self-inflicted vulnerability o being a plague rat.

Exactly this. Every adult, who doesn't have a bonafide medical contra-indication, should get vaccinated. But I don't want to give the government the power to force people.

Not getting vaccinated should remain a legal choice, but the rest of us shouldn't be forced to tolerate your presence. Whether it's my home, a local bodega, or a cruise ship operator. If we don't want you there because of your choice we should be free to prevent you from being there.
Somehow, lots of politicians like Desantis have managed to sacrifice freedom for political points and convinced their followers that forcing and outlawing is "freedom".

Tom

What should be the result of someone who has a medical contraindication or who has a quick, strong and highly probable reaction to the FIRST dose. Not a hypochondriac level reaction, but something requiring at least a emergency room visit and with clear blood work evidence.

There must be a way forward for these people to be able to go about their lives. They aren't malingerers or selfish.

This actually happened to a friend. She has known sensitivities to some medications and also some vaccinations. She knew she might have a reaction to the vaccine ( I don’t remember if it was Moderna or Pfizer) and had her first jab at an actual
hospital. She did, indeed, have a serious reaction and was declined (not her choice) the opportunity to get the second dose, although she promised to do it at the hospital). It took some weeks for her to convince them to do allergy testing to determine which components caused her allergic reaction—and to determine if any of the vaccines were suitable for her. They eventually were able to determine that J&J was safe for her, and that’s what she got. Obviously that’s a time consuming and expensive but that is a potential path forward. And perhaps this will aid in helping others who are sensitive to vaccine components.

 

[James Brown]

I can imagine a person saying, "I refuse to get the vaccine (never mind why.) But until the pandemic is over, I'm going to self-isolate, because I don't want to even unintentionally spread the virus to others."

 

[Keith&Co.]

I thought that Republicans used to argue that businesses should be able to hire, fire or refuse service to anyone.

More than a little ironic, I agree.

Of course, there's a flip side to this.
Some people are OK with forcing bakers to bake certain cakes because the law says. They don't think that private operations should be allowed to do business their own way either.
Tom

Is that really a flip side, though?
If i'm being discriminated against because of some trait i do not control, that's not on par with a status reflecting a choice i make.

 

[Toni]

I can imagine a person saying, "I refuse to get the vaccine (never mind why.) But until the pandemic is over, I'm going to self-isolate, because I don't want to even unintentionally spread the virus to others."

That’s a lovely fantasy.

In reality, people who cannot get the vaccination would much prefer to have that option available to them.

It’s the refuseniks who don’t want to get vaccinated OR self isolate because they confuse being selfish pricks with being … well, I don’t know what they think they are proving—That Trump really won or something, I guess.

 

[Ford]

It’s the refuseniks who don’t want to get vaccinated OR self isolate because they confuse being selfish pricks with being … well, I don’t know what they think they are proving—That Trump really won or something, I guess.

Looks like I'll find out if my tough-guy right wing "I refuse to get the vaccine because freedom" co-worker will stand his ground. The company just sent out an email. Get vaccinated, or you'll be looking for work soon. They will consider accommodations for medical reasons, but not "muh freedoms." I don't expect much push back because it's a tech company based in San Francisco with a lot of young, hip employees (not me!), but we'll see.

 

[TomC]

It’s the refuseniks who don’t want to get vaccinated OR self isolate because they confuse being selfish pricks with being … well, I don’t know what they think they are proving—That Trump really won or something, I guess.

Looks like I'll find out if my tough-guy right wing "I refuse to get the vaccine because freedom" co-worker will stand his ground. The company just sent out an email. Get vaccinated, or you'll be looking for work soon. They will consider accommodations for medical reasons, but not "muh freedoms." I don't expect much push back because it's a tech company based in San Francisco with a lot of young, hip employees (not me!), but we'll see.

My partner's employer did something similar, but not quite as draconian.

They've been very proactive from the get go. They started requiring masks in March 2020. In June they added the requirement of a clear plastic face shield over the mask. But it wasn't all just inconvenience for employees. When my partner tested positive, completely asymptomatic, they gave him two weeks off with full pay.

He didn't know what to do with himself. He couldn't really do anything but hang around the house. He's not suited for that, it was kinda hell for everyone.

A couple of months ago, the company lifted the face shield requirement. Then announced that fully vaccinated employees didn't have to wear a mask. They now have extremely high vaccination rates.
Tom

 

[Toni]

It’s the refuseniks who don’t want to get vaccinated OR self isolate because they confuse being selfish pricks with being … well, I don’t know what they think they are proving—That Trump really won or something, I guess.

Looks like I'll find out if my tough-guy right wing "I refuse to get the vaccine because freedom" co-worker will stand his ground. The company just sent out an email. Get vaccinated, or you'll be looking for work soon. They will consider accommodations for medical reasons, but not "muh freedoms." I don't expect much push back because it's a tech company based in San Francisco with a lot of young, hip employees (not me!), but we'll see.

My partner's employer did something similar, but not quite as draconian.

They've been very proactive from the get go. They started requiring masks in March 2020. In June they added the requirement of a clear plastic face shield over the mask. But it wasn't all just inconvenience for employees. When my partner tested positive, completely asymptomatic, they gave him two weeks off with full pay.

He didn't know what to do with himself. He couldn't really do anything but hang around the house. He's not suited for that, it was kinda hell for everyone.

A couple of months ago, the company lifted the face shield requirement. Then announced that fully vaccinated employees didn't have to wear a mask. They now have extremely high vaccination rates.
Tom

Why didn't your partner get vaccinated? Or maybe my timeline is off and he was positive before he was eligible to be vaccinated?

My employer, as do many health care providers, requires ALL employees to be vaccinated annually against influenza unless you can get a waiver, and against Hep B upon employment. Many health care/day care/long term care providers require Hep A vaccinations for employees where HepA is prevalent. My employer also requires COVID19 vaccination unless there is a valid, filed medical reason not to be vaccinated. So, my co-worker was vaccinated but her kid tested positive and my co-worker still had to sit home for 2 weeks in quarantine.

 

[TomC]

Why didn't your partner get vaccinated? Or maybe my timeline is off and he was positive before he was eligible to be vaccinated?

It's complicated. He was rather difficult about it. He kept saying he would, but not actually doing it. He's no Trumpista, but he does live in rural Trumpistan and go to the local Baptist church. Most of his family is unvaccinated, although his mom's been on him since April. So have I.

He tested positive long before vaccination was available. Late January or early February, by the time he was eligible he didn't think it a problem any more, that was April. Perhaps if his mom and I hadn't kept bitching about it he'd have gone sooner <shrug>. He can be difficult.
Tom

 

[Swammerdami]

Nine off-topic posts have been moved to their own thread:
. . . . . https://talkfreethought.org/showthr...discuss-the-2016-Democratic-Primary-yet-again

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . -- Swammi, the Fledgling Mod

 

[bilby]

Meanwhile in the UK, anti-vaccine protesters have shown their usual commitment to diligent research, fact based decision making, and the taking of appropriate action based on reality, by storming the BBC Television Centre in West London.

The BBC moved out of Television Centre in 2013, and the majority of the building is now luxury residential apartments, and includes a private member's club. There are still three television studios in the building, which are owned, but not used, by the BBC - they are rented to independent television companies.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/09/confused-anti-vaccine-protesters-storm-bbc-hq-years-after-moved-out

Bloody idiots. FFS.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Meanwhile in the UK, anti-vaccine protesters have shown their usual commitment to diligent research, fact based decision making, and the taking of appropriate action based on reality, by storming the BBC Television Centre in West London.

The BBC moved out of Television Centre in 2013, and the majority of the building is now luxury residential apartments, and includes a private member's club. There are still three television studios in the building, which are owned, but not used, by the BBC - they are rented to independent television companies.

Tell me you're dumber than a fencepost without saying, "i trust my immune system."

 

[Toni]

Why didn't your partner get vaccinated? Or maybe my timeline is off and he was positive before he was eligible to be vaccinated?

It's complicated. He was rather difficult about it. He kept saying he would, but not actually doing it. He's no Trumpista, but he does live in rural Trumpistan and go to the local Baptist church. Most of his family is unvaccinated, although his mom's been on him since April. So have I.

He tested positive long before vaccination was available. Late January or early February, by the time he was eligible he didn't think it a problem any more, that was April. Perhaps if his mom and I hadn't kept bitching about it he'd have gone sooner <shrug>. He can be difficult.
Tom

Yeah, that's rough. I started looking the day I became eligible. And I am still profoundly grateful.

No idea what works with persuading him, but the CDC thinks that he should still be vaccinated, even if he was already COVID19 positive:

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html

It is crazy to me that vaccination during a pandemic has become this particular political issue. I would expect politics over prioritization of specific demographics or geographical groups but people refusing vaccine for political reasons? Makes no sense to me.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Sidney Powell- Walk Out!

Sidney Powell is promoting for all who are forced to decide to choose a jab or their job to Walk Out on Wednesday, August 11th at 12:00 noon!

Dear Patriots

NO ONE should be forced to get jabbed with an untested vaccine against their will or through threat of job loss or education opportunities.

Millions of people have researched the vaccine and have legitimate concerns about the vaccine’s safety and effectiveness.

Defending the Republic is asking you to take a stand and join us for Walk Out Wednesday, August 11 at Noon.

Peacefully walk out of your place of employment or school if you are being forced to get vaccinated.

Buh bye, fuckheads.

I support SIdney Powell walking out into the street and getting broad-sided by a bus. And of course, he 'objection' to vaccination isn't remotely political. It only looks it.

She's on record defending her previous remarks by testifying that only complete idiots would have taken her statements seriously.

I agree with the sentiment. I also don't think anybody should be forced to get vaccinated. I'm extremly pro-vaccines. I'm just against forcing it on anyone. Liberalism is about fighting for freedom. The moment liberals stop fighting for freedom they've stopped being liberals IMHO

Then you would be pretty much full of shit. But there's the Sidney Powell defense. No one is forcing anyone to get vaccinated.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Meanwhile in the UK, anti-vaccine protesters have shown their usual commitment to diligent research, fact based decision making, and the taking of appropriate action based on reality, by storming the BBC Television Centre in West London.

The BBC moved out of Television Centre in 2013, and the majority of the building is now luxury residential apartments, and includes a private member's club. There are still three television studios in the building, which are owned, but not used, by the BBC - they are rented to independent television companies.

Tell me you're dumber than a fencepost without saying, "i trust my immune system."

Water has memory, it’s true.

 

[crazyfingers]

My daughter's boyfriend lives in New Hampshire. It's a 3 generation home with two of his siblings married and them all in one house. There is a baby on the way. Grandma and all the women are vaccinated and none of the men are. Grandma has been pushing for the men to get vaccinated but they are stubborn. My daughter can't explain it.

I am not very comfortable that my daughter even goes there. Her boyfriend is very nice but i just don't get it.

Anyway, because her boyfriend is not vaccinated he is not allowed in my house. When we go to our house in Maine the last week of august (barring catastrophy) my daughter wants him to visit there a few days. I have said ok but he will sleep in a tent outside, eat outside, not come in the house at all and he can shower down at the outside shower at the town pool. I don 't know where he'll poop. I guess in the portapotty at the pool or down at the harbor.

I like the guy. I don't get his resistance, but no vaccine, no come in the house. Nothing personal. My rules.

More businesses here in the northeast are starting no vaccine, no service rules. I think that as time goes on at least in the northeast, the willingly unvaccinated will be treated to harsher and harsher restriction by businesses.

Like someone who chose to have leprosy.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

My daughter's boyfriend lives in New Hampshire. It's a 3 generation home with two of his siblings married and them all in one house. There is a baby on the way. Grandma and all the women are vaccinated and none of the men are. Grandma has been pushing for the men to get vaccinated but they are stubborn. My daughter can't explain it.

I am not very comfortable that my daughter even goes there. Her boyfriend is very nice but i just don't get it.

Anyway, because her boyfriend is not vaccinated he is not allowed in my house. When we go to our house in Maine the last week of august (barring catastrophy) my daughter wants him to visit there a few days. I have said ok but he will sleep in a tent outside, eat outside, not come in the house at all and he can shower down at the outside shower at the town pool. I don 't know where he'll poop. I guess in the portapotty at the pool or down at the harbor.

I like the guy. I don't get his resistance, but no vaccine, no come in the house. Nothing personal. My rules.

Sounds smart. He's not really giving you any other choice.

 

[zorq]

I agree with the sentiment. I also don't think anybody should be forced to get vaccinated. I'm extremly pro-vaccines. I'm just against forcing it on anyone. Liberalism is about fighting for freedom. The moment liberals stop fighting for freedom they've stopped being liberals IMHO

Enjoying the benefits of society has a price. Sometimes you have to do what your community tells you to do for the communal benefit of everyone in the community.

Ask Wesley Snipes. He freely chose not to do what his community demanded of him and his choice led to consequences that he didn't enjoy. Do agree with Snipes? Or can you concede that sometimes freedom has a price.

 

[Ford]

He tested positive long before vaccination was available. Late January or early February, by the time he was eligible he didn't think it a problem any more, that was April. Perhaps if his mom and I hadn't kept bitching about it he'd have gone sooner <shrug>. He can be difficult.
Tom

A guy I used to work with got it in late January. He went into the hospital Jan 31st. Was gone by February 9th.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mja0jM3EIJA[/YOUTUBE]