Covid-19 miscellany

[Jimmy Higgins]

[removed]
You want to force and/or bully people to get vaccinated. As if you know better than them what is good for them. Maybe you do? Maybe you don't? Either way it's their decision.

[removed] wait until you hear my position on seatbelts!

Your posts feel like a devil’s advocate that is suffering amnesia.

 

[Rhea]

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[Jarhyn]

[removed] wait until you hear my position on seatbelts!

Your posts feel like a devil’s advocate that is suffering amnesia.

Obviously we want to force and bully people into getting vaccinated. Asking the nice way didn't work, and obviously won't work as long as there are organized forces moving to confuse the public on the issue for personal gain.

I know better than them what is good for ME, and for others. I don't give a shit what is "better for them". I have every right to expect some given baseline of social consideration set through reasonable Democratic action. They are withholding this baseline of social consideration, thus through the democratic principles of our society are no longer protected from imposition.

That's the mechanic at play here. Personally, I kinda also get off on seeing those on the wrong side of it throw a tantrum as they get dragged back over. Maybe this makes me a fascist troll in this one regard, but it is, in my estimation, the one ethical time I get to revel in such delicious and satisfying feelings, so I'm going to

 

[Harry Bosch]

[removed] wait until you hear my position on seatbelts!

Your posts feel like a devil’s advocate that is suffering amnesia.

Obviously we want to force and bully people into getting vaccinated. Asking the nice way didn't work, and obviously won't work as long as there are organized forces moving to confuse the public on the issue for personal gain.

I know better than them what is good for ME, and for others. I don't give a shit what is "better for them". I have every right to expect some given baseline of social consideration set through reasonable Democratic action. They are withholding this baseline of social consideration, thus through the democratic principles of our society are no longer protected from imposition.

That's the mechanic at play here. Personally, I kinda also get off on seeing those on the wrong side of it throw a tantrum as they get dragged back over. Maybe this makes me a fascist troll in this one regard, but it is, in my estimation, the one ethical time I get to revel in such delicious and satisfying feelings, so I'm going to

Maybe I'm just not as cynical as you! But I really don't think that bullying will work long term. Perhaps bully the news outlets (by suing the crap out of them) for promoting conspiracies and crap. But bullying regular joe isn't going to work. I really think that we can reach more people with persuasion and reasoned arguments. Many of these people don't understand that covid has mutated and is now affecting children in much more dire way. Children can't get vaccinated yet. The variant is far more transmittable than COVID. Our society can't work long term unless we can interact together. And the masks simply reduce the stream of germs that surround us allowing us to work together again. We just have to keep preaching science and the need to protect each other. And a small sacrifice now will allow us to fully open up society again.

 

[repoman]

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

[removed] wait until you hear my position on seatbelts!

Your posts feel like a devil’s advocate that is suffering amnesia.

Obviously we want to force and bully people into getting vaccinated. Asking the nice way didn't work, and obviously won't work as long as there are organized forces moving to confuse the public on the issue for personal gain.

I know better than them what is good for ME, and for others. I don't give a shit what is "better for them". I have every right to expect some given baseline of social consideration set through reasonable Democratic action. They are withholding this baseline of social consideration, thus through the democratic principles of our society are no longer protected from imposition.

That's the mechanic at play here. Personally, I kinda also get off on seeing those on the wrong side of it throw a tantrum as they get dragged back over. Maybe this makes me a fascist troll in this one regard, but it is, in my estimation, the one ethical time I get to revel in such delicious and satisfying feelings, so I'm going to

Maybe I'm just not as cynical as you! But I really don't think that bullying will work long term. Perhaps bully the news outlets (by suing the crap out of them) for promoting conspiracies and crap. But bullying regular joe isn't going to work. I really think that we can reach more people with persuasion and reasoned arguments. Many of these people don't understand that covid has mutated and is now affecting children in much more dire way. Children can't get vaccinated yet. The variant is far more transmittable than COVID. Our society can't work long term unless we can interact together. And the masks simply reduce the stream of germs that surround us allowing us to work together again. We just have to keep preaching science and the need to protect each other. And a small sacrifice now will allow us to fully open up society again.

The term bullying is also quite abused. Requiring masks if not vaccinated isn’t bullying, it is risk mitigation.

The CDC went the inform with ridiculous restraint under Trump while Trump lied to America. Now we are stuck with people against not getting sick. There is little that can be done than to say, sorry, you can’t come here, you aren’t vaccinated.

 

[repoman]

What if the standard was:

You must have covid specific IgA in your nasal passages



Because that stops viral replication related to transmission. Until we have nasal vaccines, the previously infected are the safest people to be around. Now vaccinated people should be surviving Delta fairly well and THEN getting IgA for Delta in their nasal mucous.

I am NOT anti-vax. I got two shots of Pfizer. Vaccines can give protection against getting seriously ill while letting you get REAL protection from passing on delta only after you have gotten delta. But at the time you have delta you can pass it on.

There is a huge wave of real protection washing over the nation in great part due to the vaccines not stopping transmission. This is great news.

 

[Rhea]

There is a huge wave of real protection washing over the nation in great part due to the vaccines not stopping transmission. This is great news.

I feel like this over-optimistically assumes that none of those instances of replication result in the Omega Variant arising. Since ongoing replication is exactly the method from which a newer and far more dangerous variant will arise, this claim that it is good news seems dangerously naive.

 

[blastula]

 

[repoman]

There is a huge wave of real protection washing over the nation in great part due to the vaccines not stopping transmission. This is great news.

I feel like this over-optimistically assumes that none of those instances of replication result in the Omega Variant arising. Since ongoing replication is exactly the method from which a newer and far more dangerous variant will arise, this claim that it is good news seems dangerously naive.

If today there was a nasal vaccine would you take it in addition to an intramuscular one?

I sure as hell would.

Current vaccines can't stop the spread according to

Eric Topol, MD is the Founder and Director, Scripps Research Translational Institute; and the Executive Vice President and Professor of Molecular Medicine, Scripps Research. Dr. Topol has published over 1,200 peer-reviewed articles and is one of the top 10 most cited researchers in medicine. He was the first physician researcher to raise questions about the safety of Vioxx and testified against the medication's manufacturer: Merck.

At 5:02 until he says that the current vaccines were "not designed to achieve sterilization, mucosal immunity, that would require an intranasal vaccine" goes to around 7 minutes



But the question not asked was about whether people infected with previous strains spread delta at a lower rate than vaccinated.

 

[repoman]

View attachment 34863

I am the first person in this thread to mention nasal (intranasal) vaccines.



Top scientists did not miss it. The media/social media zombie hivemind that we are all in may have.

From legit top end popularizer magazines - easy enough for most to read and still having accurate information written by actual guest experts in the field not rushed clickbait journalists.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/373/6553/397/tab-pdf

(written by Frances E. Lund - 1, Troy D. Randall - 2

1 - Department of Microbiology, University of Alabama at Birmingham, Birmingham, AL, USA.
2 - Division of Clinical Immunology and Rheumatology, Department of Medicine, University of Alabama at Birmingham, Birmingham, AL, USA.)

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/to-beat-covid-we-may-need-a-good-shot-in-the-nose/#sa_body

Now the inference that is 100% obvious unless you are being purposefully, recklessly obtuse is that having the virus in your nasal passage will cause you to make the IgA there in the same way the vaccine does.

 

[repoman]

One thing about the masks that makes even more sense now with a faster replication rate is that keeping the initial inoculum dose low will give the body more time to mount a defense.

So, are the "correct" (this is a separate discussion) masks not mostly stopping transmission but really stopping many cases of high initial dosing?

This splitting hairs is not that important, but anything that makes masks more logical to use would be good. But the nuance erasers in society will not be happy until all nuance is gone.

 

[Rhea]

If today there was a nasal vaccine would you take it in addition to an intramuscular one?

But the question not asked was about whether people infected with previous strains spread delta at a lower rate than vaccinated.

I definitely would. Anything to stop the spread. Because the spread is the thing that creates risk of mutation. That’s why I was saying the spread of Delta in order to create immunity from delta is not a great thing, beccause it is still the vector for further mutation.

 

[repoman]

If today there was a nasal vaccine would you take it in addition to an intramuscular one?

But the question not asked was about whether people infected with previous strains spread delta at a lower rate than vaccinated.

I definitely would. Anything to stop the spread. Because the spread is the thing that creates risk of mutation. That’s why I was saying the spread of Delta in order to create immunity from delta is not a great thing, beccause it is still the vector for further mutation.

But what about dragging out the infection rate for a very long time? By the time your immunity is low the variant comes along, but if the variant came by quicker would you kick its ass and get the antibodies against it?

The way to look at this is probably in the cold blooded by way that we would look at non human animal, especially livestock, viral infections. The rules also apply to us.

 

[Elixir]

If today there was a nasal vaccine would you take it in addition to an intramuscular one?

But the question not asked was about whether people infected with previous strains spread delta at a lower rate than vaccinated.

I definitely would. Anything to stop the spread. Because the spread is the thing that creates risk of mutation. That’s why I was saying the spread of Delta in order to create immunity from delta is not a great thing, beccause it is still the vector for further mutation.

But what about dragging out the infection rate for a very long time? By the time your immunity is low the variant comes along, but if the variant came by quicker would you kick its ass and get the antibodies against it?

The way to look at this is probably in the cold blooded by way that we would look at non human animal, especially livestock, viral infections. The rules also apply to us.

Livestock are smarter than anti-vaxers.

 

[Rhea]

If today there was a nasal vaccine would you take it in addition to an intramuscular one?

But the question not asked was about whether people infected with previous strains spread delta at a lower rate than vaccinated.

I definitely would. Anything to stop the spread. Because the spread is the thing that creates risk of mutation. That’s why I was saying the spread of Delta in order to create immunity from delta is not a great thing, beccause it is still the vector for further mutation.

But what about dragging out the infection rate for a very long time? By the time your immunity is low the variant comes along, but if the variant came by quicker would you kick its ass and get the antibodies against it?

The way to look at this is probably in the cold blooded by way that we would look at non human animal, especially livestock, viral infections. The rules also apply to us.

Previous data and experiences typically do not show an advantage to the “hurry up and get sick” approach. So I do not find value in that.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If today there was a nasal vaccine would you take it in addition to an intramuscular one?

But the question not asked was about whether people infected with previous strains spread delta at a lower rate than vaccinated.

I definitely would. Anything to stop the spread. Because the spread is the thing that creates risk of mutation. That’s why I was saying the spread of Delta in order to create immunity from delta is not a great thing, beccause it is still the vector for further mutation.

But what about dragging out the infection rate for a very long time? By the time your immunity is low the variant comes along, but if the variant came by quicker would you kick its ass and get the antibodies against it?

The way to look at this is probably in the cold blooded by way that we would look at non human animal, especially livestock, viral infections. The rules also apply to us.

That’d be a great idea if we wanted to collapse our health care system.

The solution is vaccination, not a mix of vaccination and stupid.

 

[repoman]

But what about dragging out the infection rate for a very long time? By the time your immunity is low the variant comes along, but if the variant came by quicker would you kick its ass and get the antibodies against it?

The way to look at this is probably in the cold blooded by way that we would look at non human animal, especially livestock, viral infections. The rules also apply to us.

That’d be a great idea if we wanted to collapse our health care system.

The solution is vaccination, not a mix of vaccination and stupid.

sounds like you are an OnlyVaxxer and I have been vaxxed myself...

An onlyvaxxer for a vaccine type that not so good by design to stop transmission, unlike the nasal vaccines coming down the pike.

 

[Toni]

But what about dragging out the infection rate for a very long time? By the time your immunity is low the variant comes along, but if the variant came by quicker would you kick its ass and get the antibodies against it?

The way to look at this is probably in the cold blooded by way that we would look at non human animal, especially livestock, viral infections. The rules also apply to us.

That’d be a great idea if we wanted to collapse our health care system.

The solution is vaccination, not a mix of vaccination and stupid.

sounds like you are an OnlyVaxxer and I have been vaxxed myself...

An onlyvaxxer for a vaccine type that not so good by design to stop transmission, unlike the nasal vaccines coming down the pike.

Vaccine is vaccine is vaccine. Your little nickname is sompletely nonsensical.

 

[Jarhyn]

sounds like you are an OnlyVaxxer and I have been vaxxed myself...

An onlyvaxxer for a vaccine type that not so good by design to stop transmission, unlike the nasal vaccines coming down the pike.

Vaccine is vaccine is vaccine. Your little nickname is sompletely nonsensical.

They're trying to generate a myth, looks like, of vaccine advocates as awful as antivaxxers.

I'm with you. As long as it's effective, I'm all for better vaccine delivery mechanisms. Isnt the TB of Polio vaccine a thing you swish as a mouthwash? That's pretty great.

There's a big but in the room though, though I'm more with sir mix-a-lot on this one (and you other brothers can't deny!): Preventing rampancy is more important than your feefees over getting a shot. Our kids can get the nasal shot, but it is our lot to take the jab. I expect any adult inline for a nasal spray vaccination will get the stinkeye and rightly so.