Covid-19 miscellany

[barbos]

Two weeks won't do it--you would have to follow that up by a test. Otherwise you would have asymptomatic cases that weren't caught.

Two weeks absolutely will do it. Asymptomatic cases resolve in few days.
Key factor here is maintaining nazi style quarantine.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I look at countries with good vaccines "mRNA, AstraZeneca/Sputnik" and they are not doing particularly well in terms of spread. And countries with crappy vaccines seems to be doing better. I wonder if crappy chinese vaccines could be actually better in the long term. Especially with Omicron.

Look at the demographics of the countries using it.

and? Demographics can affect death rate, but not the spread. If anything, young people are more careless.

The countries involved don't have enough testing to know the true number of cases. The only real data is hospitalizations and deaths--and countries with a younger demographic will fare better because of it given the same number of cases.

Are you implying that India did not have a spike which they say they had?

I'm saying we don't have good data to measure what happened.

 

[barbos]

I look at countries with good vaccines "mRNA, AstraZeneca/Sputnik" and they are not doing particularly well in terms of spread. And countries with crappy vaccines seems to be doing better. I wonder if crappy chinese vaccines could be actually better in the long term. Especially with Omicron.

Look at the demographics of the countries using it.

and? Demographics can affect death rate, but not the spread. If anything, young people are more careless.

The countries involved don't have enough testing to know the true number of cases. The only real data is hospitalizations and deaths--and countries with a younger demographic will fare better because of it given the same number of cases.

Are you implying that India did not have a spike which they say they had?

I'm saying we don't have good data to measure what happened.

We have fro India. We had a huge spike there and now we don't.
That's a fact.

 

[Elixir]

We have fro India. We had a huge spike there and now we don't.
That's a fact.

We had a YUUUGE spike in Florida, then Governor Deathsentence modified the reporting protocols, and presto - no more spike.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

There's a saying in statistics, "Garbage in, garbage out." So I have to agree with Loren. Changes in reported deaths will not give you the infection rate but it is a good indication of what happened and is still happening.

 

[TSwizzle]

More demonstrations against arbitrary restrictions;

A large group of people opposed to Covid-19 restrictions gathered in Westminster to demonstrate against Boris Johnson's Plan B announcement.

Daily Mail

Plenty agro against the coppers in London. The cops will start calling in sick.

 

[Toni]

More demonstrations against arbitrary restrictions;

A large group of people opposed to Covid-19 restrictions gathered in Westminster to demonstrate against Boris Johnson's Plan B announcement.

Daily Mail

Plenty agro against the coppers in London. The cops will start calling in sick.

Arbitrary?

 

[Rhea]

I keep going back to my idea of total lock-down.
Why not select one small country in Europe and pay them money for 2 week total lock-down and see what happens?

We don't need to do that. Australia and New Zealand were those models. But in Europe and North America, cases are too high for two-weeks. The time to fix this was over a year ago. "We" failed because "FREE TO BE DUMB!!!!".

No, Australia have never had high and sustained infection rate to contrast to. And there were no total lock-down there. China would be better example of that but who knows about China?

In my small sample of talking directly to people in China, while they don’t know full country wide information, they do know their own corporate-wide information. So they know how many people have been absent in the workplace, how many are sick in the workforce and how many have died in their workforce. And they know whether people are able to move around in society and whether people are wearing masks when they go out.

Basically they say to me, “we’re all fine here, actually. It sucks to be you, though, dunnit?”

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I keep going back to my idea of total lock-down.
Why not select one small country in Europe and pay them money for 2 week total lock-down and see what happens?

We don't need to do that. Australia and New Zealand were those models. But in Europe and North America, cases are too high for two-weeks. The time to fix this was over a year ago. "We" failed because "FREE TO BE DUMB!!!!".

No, Australia have never had high and sustained infection rate to contrast to. And there were no total lock-down there. China would be better example of that but who knows about China?

In my small sample of talking directly to people in China, while they don’t know full country wide information, they do know their own corporate-wide information. So they know how many people have been absent in the workplace, how many are sick in the workforce and how many have died in their workforce. And they know whether people are able to move around in society and whether people are wearing masks when they go out.

Basically they say to me, “we’re all fine here, actually. It sucks to be you, though, dunnit?”

Exactly. It's just not newsworthy so people think it's being covered up.

Covid leaks in, China throws a big ring fence around it and stomps it out. Rinse and repeat.

They were having a bit of trouble fencing Delta, and now they have an Omicron case that made it onto a domestic flight--if he was infectious while on the plane they could have a big problem now. It's scary because it looks like he caught it while in quarantine--someone in a nearly hotel room he never saw.

 

[jab]

I am at a point where I will no longer work for a company/employer that I cannot trust, as I am past minimum retirement age too. So I understand perfectly your reasoning.

I can’t help but wonder how much of the employee shortfall is due to good workers refusing to work for an employer they don’t trust, or employers who don’t care how much their employees are endangered by working in unsafe conditions. I suspect this might be more the cause than the popular notions that vaccine mandates and stimulus money are the cause of not enough workers being available.

Ruth

I have questioned that too for quite a while now. Some industry claims that requiring vaccination will make it harder to fill open positions. I wonder if the lack of an employee vaccine requirement may be keeping even more people away. Even health care. If I was a health care worker i would NOT take a job where vaccination was not required

It's important to remember that vaccination isn't the primary issue with antivaxxers. They've all been vaccinated for other things. They all use seat belts and obey traffic signals, even drive on the right side of the road. Imagine that! Amazing! Their inability to recognize their antivaxxer idiocy is a symptom, the causes of which could fill every library on the planet. Having a rational, dispassionate discussion with one reveals that they lack the ability to recognize their inconsistent behavior. Maybe Dunning Kruger is the real reason. That's where I'd put my money.

No, no, earlier in the thread, several posters, (including one who otherwise insists on rigorous scientific evidence for claims about Covid, about masking, about vaccines, and about the flu) have), have used anecdotal evidence and perhaps some reading of news reports, and have demonstrated that many anti-vaxxers are intelligent folks. This same poster roundly ignored an apparently rigorous study, posted on this forum, that showed anti-vaxxers tend towards sociopathy. So maybe with the intelligent ones it's not so much Dunning-Kruger, as a sociopathic fuck-it mindset: a scintillating lack of empathy and recklessness.

Actually, what you call "anecdotal evidence" is in this case decisive, as one is to assess whether all anti-vaccers are stupid/not intelligent people. Certainly, that is not so, regardless of whether anti-vaccers are more likely to be less intelligent, all other things equal. As to whether they are more likely to be psychopaths all other things equal, that is not relevant with respect to how intelligent or unintelligent they are. By the way, also it is not true that all anti-vaccers have been vaccinated against other things. Some have, and some have not. Most have, but they are only anti-Covid-vaccers. The (intelligent) Greek guy I mentioned before has not, as far as I can tell, gotten any vaccines (as an adult, anyway), though he also does not eat processed foods, avoids other medicines, etc., so more than an anti-vaccer he seems like an anti-modern-tech-in-the-body kind of guy.

intelligent people can be sociopaths.

Sure. And they can be non-sociopaths too. You say "So maybe with the intelligent ones it's not so much Dunning-Kruger, as a sociopathic fuck-it mindset: a scintillating lack of empathy and recklessness.", but there is no good reason to believe that all or even most intelligent anti-vaccers are like that. Again, think of intelligent Christians, Muslims, Marxists, etc. Plenty of intelligent people fall for religious/ideological nonsense.

A scientific study cited earlier in the thread, and referred to in my first and dealing with Covid anti's purported to establish they had sociopathic traits. In the same post you quote, I wrote "an apparently rigorous study, posted on this forum, that showed anti-vaxxers tend towards sociopathy. " I invite you to check out the study please, and reframe your present, cherry-picked responses accordingly. You are studiously avoiding looking at this response.

I invite you to read my replies - which are not cherry picked - more carefully. Again, the study does not say that 'they' are sociopaths. Having on average more sociopathic traits does not entail that all or even most are sociopaths. ETA: if you want me to give you a more detailed reply, I would ask you for a link to the study, because with this new forum software - which I really, really dislike - I do not know how to find it.

strawberry picked, then

 

[jab]

Doomsayer Neil Ferguson (the guy that has never been right) is predicting up to 5,000 deaths a day in the UK unless more stringent lockdown measures (of course) are implemented. According to him, vaccination and prior immunity is pretty much useless;

Gloomy modelling by 'Professor Lockdown' today suggested there could be up to 5,000 Omicron deaths per day this winter as he called for restrictions to be tightened within a fortnight. Neil Ferguson and his team at Imperial College London found 'no evidence' the variant is less severe than Delta but estimate it is five-and-a-half times more likely to re-infect people and make vaccines significantly weaker. In a best case scenario, Imperial said without further curbs there could be in the region of 3,000 daily Omicron deaths at the peak in January — significantly higher than the previous record of 1,800 during the second wave.

DailyMail

It is beginning to look like the vaccine is a bit of a bust.

Going in, data made it clear that Astra Zeneca (never approved by the US) was not one of the most effective vaccines even against Alpha--and yet it was teh vaccine pushed by the British government.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Omicron rates is high. New cases are growing. Been stateside for a couple weeks, and now about half of positive cases in NE Ohio. This thing is blowing up so quick, it might be over before it starts. Of course, that could pummel the local hospitals in NE Ohio that have ERs already at capacity with so many idiotic dumbass anti-vax'd people.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

I am at a point where I will no longer work for a company/employer that I cannot trust, as I am past minimum retirement age too. So I understand perfectly your reasoning.

I can’t help but wonder how much of the employee shortfall is due to good workers refusing to work for an employer they don’t trust, or employers who don’t care how much their employees are endangered by working in unsafe conditions. I suspect this might be more the cause than the popular notions that vaccine mandates and stimulus money are the cause of not enough workers being available.

Ruth

I have questioned that too for quite a while now. Some industry claims that requiring vaccination will make it harder to fill open positions. I wonder if the lack of an employee vaccine requirement may be keeping even more people away. Even health care. If I was a health care worker i would NOT take a job where vaccination was not required

It's important to remember that vaccination isn't the primary issue with antivaxxers. They've all been vaccinated for other things. They all use seat belts and obey traffic signals, even drive on the right side of the road. Imagine that! Amazing! Their inability to recognize their antivaxxer idiocy is a symptom, the causes of which could fill every library on the planet. Having a rational, dispassionate discussion with one reveals that they lack the ability to recognize their inconsistent behavior. Maybe Dunning Kruger is the real reason. That's where I'd put my money.

No, no, earlier in the thread, several posters, (including one who otherwise insists on rigorous scientific evidence for claims about Covid, about masking, about vaccines, and about the flu) have), have used anecdotal evidence and perhaps some reading of news reports, and have demonstrated that many anti-vaxxers are intelligent folks. This same poster roundly ignored an apparently rigorous study, posted on this forum, that showed anti-vaxxers tend towards sociopathy. So maybe with the intelligent ones it's not so much Dunning-Kruger, as a sociopathic fuck-it mindset: a scintillating lack of empathy and recklessness.

Actually, what you call "anecdotal evidence" is in this case decisive, as one is to assess whether all anti-vaccers are stupid/not intelligent people. Certainly, that is not so, regardless of whether anti-vaccers are more likely to be less intelligent, all other things equal. As to whether they are more likely to be psychopaths all other things equal, that is not relevant with respect to how intelligent or unintelligent they are. By the way, also it is not true that all anti-vaccers have been vaccinated against other things. Some have, and some have not. Most have, but they are only anti-Covid-vaccers. The (intelligent) Greek guy I mentioned before has not, as far as I can tell, gotten any vaccines (as an adult, anyway), though he also does not eat processed foods, avoids other medicines, etc., so more than an anti-vaccer he seems like an anti-modern-tech-in-the-body kind of guy.

intelligent people can be sociopaths.

Sure. And they can be non-sociopaths too. You say "So maybe with the intelligent ones it's not so much Dunning-Kruger, as a sociopathic fuck-it mindset: a scintillating lack of empathy and recklessness.", but there is no good reason to believe that all or even most intelligent anti-vaccers are like that. Again, think of intelligent Christians, Muslims, Marxists, etc. Plenty of intelligent people fall for religious/ideological nonsense.

A scientific study cited earlier in the thread, and referred to in my first and dealing with Covid anti's purported to establish they had sociopathic traits. In the same post you quote, I wrote "an apparently rigorous study, posted on this forum, that showed anti-vaxxers tend towards sociopathy. " I invite you to check out the study please, and reframe your present, cherry-picked responses accordingly. You are studiously avoiding looking at this response.

I invite you to read my replies - which are not cherry picked - more carefully. Again, the study does not say that 'they' are sociopaths. Having on average more sociopathic traits does not entail that all or even most are sociopaths. ETA: if you want me to give you a more detailed reply, I would ask you for a link to the study, because with this new forum software - which I really, really dislike - I do not know how to find it.

strawberry picked, then

Of course not. Why do you not realize that?

 

[bleubird]

State senator dies a month after telling a local radio station he was sick with Covid-19 while in El Salvador | CNN Politics

A Washington state senator has died a month after confirming with a local radio station he was in El Salvador and sick with Covid-19.

www.cnn.com

Karma?

 

[Angra Mainyu]

No, just a mindless virus.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

No, just a mindless virus.

Well yeah. The GOP has fallen to that level it seems.

 

[barbos]

Looks like republicans are winning at dying. Has anyone tried to do the numbers?

 

[ZiprHead]

Looks like republicans are winning at dying. Has anyone tried to do the numbers?

I know DeSantis won Florida by a lot less than the deaths from covid in Florida.

Keep it up, Republicans. Keep killing your own voters.

 

[crazyfingers]

Looks like republicans are winning at dying. Has anyone tried to do the numbers?

I saw a chart a few days ago. I don't recall if it was cases or deaths but people in counties that voted republican are dramatically higher than counties that voted democrat. The difference was something like 5X.

 

[Rhea]

Looks like republicans are winning at dying. Has anyone tried to do the numbers?

I saw a chart a few days ago. I don't recall if it was cases or deaths but people in counties that voted republican are dramatically higher than counties that voted democrat. The difference was something like 5X.