The unvaccinated have always been a risk to the vaccinated with any disease. No vaccine is 100% effective and the population always contains a few that can't be vaccinated for medical reasons, as well as a few too young to be vaccinated.
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Covid-19 miscellany
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TomC
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Then there's the less direct problems.
Plague rats trashed the economy. They filled up hospital beds.
They made the issue much worse than was necessary in a raft of ways.
Tom
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Lots of people around me have covid right now.
lpetrich
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There are two women who write about social and political issues, Naomi Klein and Naomi Wolf, women who are often mixed up. One of them, NK, has recently written a book about NW, The Other Naomi: "Doppelganger: A Trip Into the Mirror World " - from German Doppelgänger, a sort of duplicate, literally "double goer" or "double walker". In this case, a sort of evil twin. NK wrote about NW starting out center-left, much like her, and then becoming an antivax conspiracy-monger and friend of Steve Bannon. NK described doing a lot of research for her book, listening to a lot of Steve Bannon's podcasts and the like.
Doppelganger (Klein book)- Doppelganger: A Trip Into the Mirror World by Naomi Klein review – a case of mistaken identity | Naomi Klein | The Guardian - "An insightful and subtle exploration of truth in politics, prompted by constantly being confused with Naomi Wolf"
- Opinion | Naomi Klein, Naomi Wolf and the Political Upside Down - The New York Times
- Book Review: ‘Doppelganger,’ by Naomi Klein - The New York Times
Seems like horseshoe politics.
Including the conspiracy theory that Jews are trying to take over the world, and NK discusses that theory also. She points out that Jews as rapacious capitalists and Jews as Communists was a double identity that was very convenient for the Nazi regime, because despite its name, it was firmly pro-capitalist as long as the capitalists were Real Germans.
Rather curiously, right-wing self-styled anti-elitists ignore the contradictions in their positions. They don't howl with outrage at how their heroes had stabbed them in the back by doing things that they don't like. No "We supported your right to run your business however you see fit, but then you turn around and support lots of flaky left-wing causes!!!"
Good point about center-right to center-left policymakers. Their policy response was totally inadequate. They should have encouraged masking and vaxxing while enabling people to have an approximately normal existence as much as possible.
lpetrich
Contributor
Opinion | Naomi Klein, Naomi Wolf and the Political Upside Down - The New York Times by Michelle Goldberg
NW's work became "increasingly sloppy and absurd". like in 2019, where she claimed in "Outrages" that several Victorian-Britain men were executed for same-sex relationships. That claim was quickly debunked, and “If you want an origin story, an event when Wolf’s future flip to the pseudopopulist right was locked in, it was probably that moment, live on the BBC, getting caught — and then getting shamed, getting mocked and getting pulped," wrote NK.
"But in channeling the fears of people similarly unmoored by Covid, Wolf seems to have found something like stability, gaining a new audience that accorded her the respect she’d lost." NK wrote about "The Shock Doctrine", rapacious capitalists taking advantage of disasters, but "Wolf peddled a bizarro-world version of that idea, describing the response to the virus as a ploy to impose global totalitarianism."
NK: “Narcissism(Grandiosity) + Social media addiction + Midlife crisis ÷ Public shaming = Right wing meltdown.”
MG: "Somehow, Wolf’s apocalyptic pronouncements about sinister drug companies and imminent technological tyranny speak to these people in a way that the left does not." - even though those are rather anti-capitalist claims.
Then discussing Naomi Wolf's 1990 book "The Beauty Myth", about "the toll taken on women by the upward ratchet of unreasonable beauty standards." However, "In retrospect, the seeds of her intellectual decline were already present in that book, which contained both major statistical errors and a conspiratorial subtext that painted the influence of patriarchy as a deliberate plot."
NW's work became "increasingly sloppy and absurd". like in 2019, where she claimed in "Outrages" that several Victorian-Britain men were executed for same-sex relationships. That claim was quickly debunked, and “If you want an origin story, an event when Wolf’s future flip to the pseudopopulist right was locked in, it was probably that moment, live on the BBC, getting caught — and then getting shamed, getting mocked and getting pulped," wrote NK.
"But in channeling the fears of people similarly unmoored by Covid, Wolf seems to have found something like stability, gaining a new audience that accorded her the respect she’d lost." NK wrote about "The Shock Doctrine", rapacious capitalists taking advantage of disasters, but "Wolf peddled a bizarro-world version of that idea, describing the response to the virus as a ploy to impose global totalitarianism."
NK: “Narcissism(Grandiosity) + Social media addiction + Midlife crisis ÷ Public shaming = Right wing meltdown.”
MG: "Somehow, Wolf’s apocalyptic pronouncements about sinister drug companies and imminent technological tyranny speak to these people in a way that the left does not." - even though those are rather anti-capitalist claims.
lpetrich
Contributor
Book Review: ‘Doppelganger,’ by Naomi Klein - The New York Times
"If I had to name a single book that makes sense of these last few dark years, it would be this one."
The sort of thing that Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene is notable for.
NK then researched and tried to understand NW and her followers. "On her highbrow romp through this disturbing underworld, Klein’s writing is clear, dynamic, ruthlessly honest, imbued with a rare integrity."
NK talked about wellness influencers turned antivaxxers to autism to Nazis to Israel to her husband's potential constituents when he ran for Canada's Parliament. She discussed Irish Murdoch, Charlie Chaplin, Philip Roth, Karl Marx, and Sigmund Freud.
"If I had to name a single book that makes sense of these last few dark years, it would be this one."
lpetrich
Contributor
Naomi Klein also mentioned that some anti-vaxxers were anti-vaxxers before COVID-19, and she mentions how some people don't like the idea of wearing lower-face masks to protect people more vulnerable than them. To such people, anyone vulnerable is a weakling or a lazy bum who does not deserve to be protected.
Some people very involved in wellness seem to believe that vaccines are unnecessary because all that is necessary to resist disease organisms is a good diet, good exercise, and that sort of thing.
I don't recall if NK mentioned it, but some COVID-19 anti-vaxxers believe that vaccines can make one shed dangerous vaccine particles, and that that's a good reason to wear a lower-face mask. But she does talk about mirror-image beliefs a lot in her book, and that's clearly a mirror-image belief.
It's like how a lot of crackpottery features mirror-image beliefs. As Martin Gardner noted 70 years ago in "Fads and Fallacies", many crackpots proposes inversions of well-established beliefs.
In the 19th and early 20th cys., many physics crackpots were anti-Newton. But after 1920 or thereabouts, many physics crackpots became anti-Einstein, and often claimed that they were bringing back Newtonian physics. Most recently, one physics crackpot claimed to be bringing back Newtonian and Einsteinian physics in opposition to some present-day theories.
Mathematicians prove that trisection of the angle is impossible using Euclidean tools. So a crackpot does that. Instead of a "pull" of gravity, it is a "push". Instead of germs causing disease, it's disease that causes germs. Glasses don't improve vision, instead making it worse. Cosmology crackpot Cyrus Teed believed in an inside-out Universe, where we are living on the inner surface of a hollow Earth. On a milder level, instead of the Earth being condensed all the way through, some crackpots have believed that the Earth's interior is hollow.
Some people very involved in wellness seem to believe that vaccines are unnecessary because all that is necessary to resist disease organisms is a good diet, good exercise, and that sort of thing.
I don't recall if NK mentioned it, but some COVID-19 anti-vaxxers believe that vaccines can make one shed dangerous vaccine particles, and that that's a good reason to wear a lower-face mask. But she does talk about mirror-image beliefs a lot in her book, and that's clearly a mirror-image belief.
It's like how a lot of crackpottery features mirror-image beliefs. As Martin Gardner noted 70 years ago in "Fads and Fallacies", many crackpots proposes inversions of well-established beliefs.
In the 19th and early 20th cys., many physics crackpots were anti-Newton. But after 1920 or thereabouts, many physics crackpots became anti-Einstein, and often claimed that they were bringing back Newtonian physics. Most recently, one physics crackpot claimed to be bringing back Newtonian and Einsteinian physics in opposition to some present-day theories.
Mathematicians prove that trisection of the angle is impossible using Euclidean tools. So a crackpot does that. Instead of a "pull" of gravity, it is a "push". Instead of germs causing disease, it's disease that causes germs. Glasses don't improve vision, instead making it worse. Cosmology crackpot Cyrus Teed believed in an inside-out Universe, where we are living on the inner surface of a hollow Earth. On a milder level, instead of the Earth being condensed all the way through, some crackpots have believed that the Earth's interior is hollow.
Makes a lot of sense about the MAGAs. They hate weakness--until it comes for them.
lpetrich
Contributor
Naomi Klein also mentioned that some anti-vaxxers were anti-vaxxers before COVID-19, and she mentions how some people don't like the idea of wearing lower-face masks to protect people more vulnerable than them. To such people, anyone vulnerable is a weakling or a lazy bum who does not deserve to be protected.
Some people very involved in wellness seem to believe that vaccines are unnecessary because all that is necessary to resist disease organisms is a good diet, good exercise, and the like. Some anti-vaxxers seem to think that nasty diseases are somehow beneficial, like the author of the book "Melanie's Marvelous Measles".
I don't recall if NK mentioned it, but some COVID-19 anti-vaxxers claim that vaccines can make one shed dangerous vaccine particles, and that that's a good reason to wear a lower-face mask. But she does talk about mirror-image beliefs a lot in her book, and that's clearly a mirror-image belief.
It's like how a lot of crackpottery features mirror-image beliefs. As Martin Gardner noted 70 years ago in "Fads and Fallacies", many crackpots proposes inversions of well-established beliefs.
In the 19th and early 20th cys., many physics crackpots were anti-Newton. But after 1920 or thereabouts, many physics crackpots became anti-Einstein, and often claimed that they were bringing back Newtonian physics. Most recently, one physics crackpot claimed to be bringing back Newtonian and Einsteinian physics in opposition to some present-day theories.
Mathematicians prove that trisection of the angle is impossible using Euclidean tools. So a crackpot does that. Instead of a "pull" of gravity, it is a "push". Instead of germs causing disease, it's disease that causes germs. Glasses don't improve vision, instead making it worse. Cosmology crackpot Cyrus Teed believed in an inside-out Universe, where we are living on the inner surface of a hollow Earth. On a milder level, instead of the Earth being condensed all the way through, some crackpots have believed that the Earth's interior is hollow.
Some people very involved in wellness seem to believe that vaccines are unnecessary because all that is necessary to resist disease organisms is a good diet, good exercise, and the like. Some anti-vaxxers seem to think that nasty diseases are somehow beneficial, like the author of the book "Melanie's Marvelous Measles".
I don't recall if NK mentioned it, but some COVID-19 anti-vaxxers claim that vaccines can make one shed dangerous vaccine particles, and that that's a good reason to wear a lower-face mask. But she does talk about mirror-image beliefs a lot in her book, and that's clearly a mirror-image belief.
It's like how a lot of crackpottery features mirror-image beliefs. As Martin Gardner noted 70 years ago in "Fads and Fallacies", many crackpots proposes inversions of well-established beliefs.
In the 19th and early 20th cys., many physics crackpots were anti-Newton. But after 1920 or thereabouts, many physics crackpots became anti-Einstein, and often claimed that they were bringing back Newtonian physics. Most recently, one physics crackpot claimed to be bringing back Newtonian and Einsteinian physics in opposition to some present-day theories.
Mathematicians prove that trisection of the angle is impossible using Euclidean tools. So a crackpot does that. Instead of a "pull" of gravity, it is a "push". Instead of germs causing disease, it's disease that causes germs. Glasses don't improve vision, instead making it worse. Cosmology crackpot Cyrus Teed believed in an inside-out Universe, where we are living on the inner surface of a hollow Earth. On a milder level, instead of the Earth being condensed all the way through, some crackpots have believed that the Earth's interior is hollow.
TSwizzle
I am unburdened by what has been.
TomC
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Bernie said something that all of us educated people already knew.
Vaccination isn't perfect. But it's vastly better than being unvaccinated, an 82 y/o is going home to be careful instead of spreading the Trump virus to everyone he can find.
What problem do you have with responsible behavior?
Tom
repoman
Contributor
During covid YouTube clamped down too much on information flow regarding all aspects of it.
But now watching YouTube recently, the advertisements are full of health scams promoting products and services based on claims like:
- Losing eyesight and hearing have nothing to do with the eyes or ears but only the brain
- Germanium bracelets helps with weight loss
It makes me think that they were not sincere regarding covid information.
But now watching YouTube recently, the advertisements are full of health scams promoting products and services based on claims like:
- Losing eyesight and hearing have nothing to do with the eyes or ears but only the brain
- Germanium bracelets helps with weight loss
It makes me think that they were not sincere regarding covid information.
Jimmy Higgins
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It is legal to sell snake oil. Just as long as you use tiny print.
Covid killed a lot of people. Regardless what fucks like failed MMA fighters suggest.
Covid killed a lot of people. Regardless what fucks like failed MMA fighters suggest.
hurtinbuckaroo
Contributor
Oh dear, a fully vaccinated person got COVID. Stop the presses!
The COVID vaccine is effective at reducing the likelihood of infection, and reducing the severity of symptoms. It is not a guarantee of anything. This is not news. What part of this do you have trouble understanding?
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All that stupid sciencey stuff.
They have always had scammy ads. There was enough backlash over the Covid disinformation they actually tried to deal with it, that's all. The usual scammy stuff doesn't provoke enough reaction over any given thing to cause such backlash.
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No one is going to die from wearing a germanium bracelet. Lots of people died from covid misinformation.
But some of the other stuff actually is dangerous.
marc
Veteran Member
"One meta-analysis of 24 studies published in October, for example, found that people who’d had three doses of the COVID vaccine were 68.7 percent less likely to develop long COVID compared with those who were unvaccinated."
Yea, I'll keep getting my boosters. The anti-vaxxers can continue to be the control group and let us know how long 'long covid' can go.
www.scientificamerican.com
Yea, I'll keep getting my boosters. The anti-vaxxers can continue to be the control group and let us know how long 'long covid' can go.
Vaccination Dramatically Lowers Long Covid Risk
Several new studies reveal that getting multiple COVID vaccine doses provides strong protection against lingering symptoms
