Covid-19 miscellany

[repoman]

Hard to falsify either side of the lab leak hypothesis and poor arguments by either side mean nothing for what the actual truth is.

I think that the second quote is not germane.

If it did come from the lab then many people working there would know that.

Also, even if a rock solid zoonotic source is found, what should be the protocols of gain of function research be going forward?

It's not the lab workers, it's the test population. China certainly couldn't just disappear as many people as it would take. You might be able to pull it off in some war-torn parts of Africa, but not in any functioning society.

lab leak without a human test population is not related or necessary.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I agree that the 8 "facts" on that poster have been making the rounds.

From my layman knowledge from listening to experts on this it seems that only rare (but nonetheless important for those people) cases of antibodies that are accidentally autoimmune might be occuring.

This article discusses it
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2106383

n a recent study, Greinacher et al.1 reported thrombotic complications, mostly cerebral vein thrombosis, associated with thrombocytopenia in 11 patients after they had been vaccinated with ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 (AstraZeneca). Although none of these patients had received heparin, the authors detected high titers of anti–platelet factor 4 (PF4)–heparin antibodies that strongly activated platelets in vitro without heparin and in the presence of PF4. This syndrome, which resembles autoimmune heparin-induced thrombocytopenia, was called vaccine-induced immune thrombotic thrombocytopenia (VITT), and an algorithm for the management of this syndrome was proposed on the basis of immunoassays detecting anti–PF4–heparin antibodies.

The vaccine liability issue is a known fact and probably only provable massive fraud in the studies would be able to undo that. That is unlikely to even have happened. But IF it did, that is a matter of criminal prosecution.

These people are not seeing that by having six outlandish "facts" included that it discredits the one real fact and the other minor/partial fact. Unless they are just fear gripped or grifters.

Does anyone have a debunking of "Fact 4"? I have seen that one a lot.

The vaccine liability thing is a general case, not specific to Covid. The problem is there are a large number of bad claims with a tiny number of real ones mixed in. Defense against the crap was too expensive so the government made an alternative system for resolving such cases. You have to convince doctors of the problem rather than juries.

The thrombocytopenia is an issue with anything that triggers the immune system, vaccine or real disease.

As for #4--look at it more carefully. Animals in prior coronavirus vaccine trials became very sick when exposed to the wild virus. It seems to me that if you tested saline solution as a vaccine you would get exactly this result. If the vaccine doesn't work the animal gets sick when exposed to the real thing. Coronaviruses are notorious for being hard to vaccinate against, there are no doubt plenty of failed trials. Vaccines are normally not developed for diseases which are minor (the HPV vaccine isn't because of warts, but because of the cancer the virus also causes), of course they get very sick.

 

[barbos]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/intell...b-fuels-debate-on-covid-19-origin-11621796228

WASHINGTON—Three researchers from China’s Wuhan Institute of Virology became sick enough in November 2019 that they sought hospital care, according to a previously undisclosed U.S. intelligence report that could add weight to growing calls for a fuller probe of whether the Covid-19 virus may have escaped from the laboratory.

 

[repoman]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/intell...b-fuels-debate-on-covid-19-origin-11621796228

WASHINGTON—Three researchers from China’s Wuhan Institute of Virology became sick enough in November 2019 that they sought hospital care, according to a previously undisclosed U.S. intelligence report that could add weight to growing calls for a fuller probe of whether the Covid-19 virus may have escaped from the laboratory.

oops

 

[untermensche]

So people getting sick at an institute of virology definitely means they were sick from COVID?

 

[barbos]

So people getting sick at an institute of virology definitely means they were sick from COVID?

No, but it IS definitely a smoke.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/intell...b-fuels-debate-on-covid-19-origin-11621796228

WASHINGTON—Three researchers from China’s Wuhan Institute of Virology became sick enough in November 2019 that they sought hospital care, according to a previously undisclosed U.S. intelligence report that could add weight to growing calls for a fuller probe of whether the Covid-19 virus may have escaped from the laboratory.

While internal security would need to be addressed if it escaped a lab, China's failure to contain the virus in Wuhan and not disclose information is the big issue here. The trouble I have with it leaking from a lab is that it was bat born and contagious from human to human. Also, knowing what we know, the whole lab should have been infected, not merely a few people, granted they could have been asymptomatic. This is an "exclusive" to WSJ, so I'm hesitant to give it much weight.

 

[untermensche]

So people getting sick at an institute of virology definitely means they were sick from COVID?

No, but it IS definitely a smoke.

From an institute of virology?

There is not one reason to think it was COVID.

What kind of illness? How long did it last?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

South Carolina and the PGA will help to provide an interesting test on vaccination and Covid-19 transmission. Didn't see the tightly packed spectators wearing masks (most also shooting in Portrait mode!). Lots of yelling as a ball gets hit, apparently mere impact matters more than where it lands. If there is an uptick in a week plus, we'll know why.

 

[barbos]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/intell...b-fuels-debate-on-covid-19-origin-11621796228

WASHINGTON—Three researchers from China’s Wuhan Institute of Virology became sick enough in November 2019 that they sought hospital care, according to a previously undisclosed U.S. intelligence report that could add weight to growing calls for a fuller probe of whether the Covid-19 virus may have escaped from the laboratory.

While internal security would need to be addressed if it escaped a lab, China's failure to contain the virus in Wuhan and not disclose information is the big issue here. The trouble I have with it leaking from a lab is that it was bat born and contagious from human to human. Also, knowing what we know, the whole lab should have been infected, not merely a few people, granted they could have been asymptomatic. This is an "exclusive" to WSJ, so I'm hesitant to give it much weight.

By the time chinese themselves realized the scale of the problem, it was too late, it had spread outside already.
It's bad that they decided to hide the information but it would not change much I think. I mean, you seriously believe that any country would go to extreme measures in January 2020?

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[ZiprHead]

The above photo came from this FB thread.

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10157764253425826&set=gm.2902528816670662

Nazi apologia ta its finest.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

The above photo came from this FB thread.

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10157764253425826&set=gm.2902528816670662

Nazi apologia ta its finest.

Wow, what a bunch of qarens. All these comparisons to the Holocaust are even worse because their behaviors have caused so many deaths from not masking up and now not vaxxing. We failed as a species because we can't work together in a crisis using logic and science, even though we're supposed to be an intelligent species. This global pandemic is only the beginning because next time it will be some even more urgent crisis, like a super massive asteroid or global warming regulations where everyone has to do their part to help in a super regional project or by following the regulations requiring massive cooperation. But it will be "help, they're treating me just like the jews in the holocaust!!!111!" Meanwhile, their inactivity and spread of misinformation will cause the end of the human species as we know it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/intell...b-fuels-debate-on-covid-19-origin-11621796228

WASHINGTON—Three researchers from China’s Wuhan Institute of Virology became sick enough in November 2019 that they sought hospital care, according to a previously undisclosed U.S. intelligence report that could add weight to growing calls for a fuller probe of whether the Covid-19 virus may have escaped from the laboratory.

I've heard multiple reports of something Covid-like spreading even earlier than that.

My personal suspicion is that the version that blew up Wuhan is actually a variant of something with a considerably lower R0 that was already spreading.

There's also an incident from 2012 with a deadly Covid-like disease. It feels very much like this is a zoonotic jump that had to mutate to effectively spread in humans.

 

[Rhea]

Do they have any DNA from the prior version? It would be interesting if the could identify a precursor from some patient’s blood sample.

 

[crazyfingers]

My daughter was txting today with someone she does not talk to a lot. She was a bit befuddled that this person refuses to get a vaccine because she is convinced that the vaccine has microchips inside for tracking people. She claimed that the arm where the vaccine goes becomes metallic and that the vaccinated arm will pull a refrigerator magnet off the refrigerator.

My daughter was flummoxed that such stupidity really exists.

I assured her that such stupidity does exist. It's called Trumpers.

 

[barbos]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/intell...b-fuels-debate-on-covid-19-origin-11621796228

WASHINGTON—Three researchers from China’s Wuhan Institute of Virology became sick enough in November 2019 that they sought hospital care, according to a previously undisclosed U.S. intelligence report that could add weight to growing calls for a fuller probe of whether the Covid-19 virus may have escaped from the laboratory.

I've heard multiple reports of something Covid-like spreading even earlier than that.

Among researchers in the lab?

My personal suspicion is that the version that blew up Wuhan is actually a variant of something with a considerably lower R0 that was already spreading.

And the fact that it happened in Wuhan is a concidence?

There's also an incident from 2012 with a deadly Covid-like disease. It feels very much like this is a zoonotic jump that had to mutate to effectively spread in humans.

You need to find a source to claim nothing fishy.

 

[Rhea]

My personal suspicion is that the version that blew up Wuhan is actually a variant of something with a considerably lower R0 that was already spreading.

And the fact that it happened in Wuhan is a concidence?

Not a terribly unlikely coincidence. It’s a large city with 11M people. Most large cities have some kind of biologic lab in or near them. So wherever a lab exists, a large population also exists and is therefore a likely place for some mutation to emerge and spread widely.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I've heard multiple reports of something Covid-like spreading even earlier than that.

Among researchers in the lab?

My personal suspicion is that the version that blew up Wuhan is actually a variant of something with a considerably lower R0 that was already spreading.

And the fact that it happened in Wuhan is a concidence?

There's also an incident from 2012 with a deadly Covid-like disease. It feels very much like this is a zoonotic jump that had to mutate to effectively spread in humans.

You need to find a source to claim nothing fishy.

I could have swore there was talk about sat imagery indicating something was going on in Wuhan a month or two before they said it was, but I can't find it, so that might have been inaccurate or flat out false.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Two weeks ago a Stockholm friend was invited to a group sex party. Also invited was an antivaxx hippie. Because of this my friend chose not to go. Everybody at the party got Corona.
.

Sometimes I think you are making stuff up

This could be made up. I'm relaying second hand information from a girl I sometimes sleep with when I'm in Stockholm. I don't really know her. It's not the most reliable source. But I thought the story was too good to share to engage my critical mind.