Covid-19 miscellany

[Trausti]

Fixing the underlying causes of obesity and such require a lot more struggling than getting vaccinated.

Yes. Personal responsibility is hard. Too hard, actually. So let's just lock down society.

 

[Metaphor]

Here's another important thing. Fixing the underlying causes of obesity and such require a lot more struggling than getting vaccinated. Getting vaccinated is a whole lot more feasible than losing 150 pounds, or kicking the nicotine habit.

The people who are not vaccinated right now, in the United States, are not vaccinated because they have strong objections to getting vaccinated. Vaccines are free and, presumably, there are no egregious access issues.

I believe it is crossing a moral line for a government to force adults to undergo medical procedures that are entirely for the benefit of other adults.

 

[Trausti]

Here's another important thing. Fixing the underlying causes of obesity and such require a lot more struggling than getting vaccinated. Getting vaccinated is a whole lot more feasible than losing 150 pounds, or kicking the nicotine habit.

The people who are not vaccinated right now, in the United States, are not vaccinated because they have strong objections to getting vaccinated. Vaccines are free and, presumably, there are no egregious access issues.

I believe it is crossing a moral line for a government to force adults to undergo medical procedures that are entirely for the benefit of other adults.

Indeed. School kids gotta mask and social distance to assuage adult hypochondria. And adults?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

In good news, effective COVID treatments are being discovered and developed:

MSN

www.msn.com

Huh? Blood thinners have been used against Covid for quite a while--and they're very much a double-edged sword because you're trying to navigate between clotting out and bleeding out and sometimes there's no space in between.

Do you have a psychological compulsion to comment on everything?

The story was 8 hours old when I posted it. It was the results of a newly published study.

The point is that while the study might be new it's not exactly new information--we have been using blood thinners pretty much from the beginning, this is not evidence of developing new Covid treatments.

 

[TomC]

Fixing the underlying causes of obesity and such require a lot more struggling than getting vaccinated.

Yes. Personal responsibility is hard. Too hard, actually. So let's just lock down society.

Back in the olden days, conservatives were strong supporters of the ethics of "personal responsibility". That has changed.
Unfortunately.
Tom

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Vaccine mandates obsolete;

It would be irrational, legally indefensible and contrary to the public interest for government to mandate vaccines absent any evidence that the vaccines are effective in stopping the spread of the pathogen they target. Yet that’s exactly what’s happening here. mandating a vaccine to stop the spread of a disease requires evidence that the vaccines will prevent infection or transmission (rather than efficacy against severe outcomes like hospitalization or death). As the World Health Organization puts it, “if mandatory vaccination is considered necessary to interrupt transmission chains and prevent harm to others, there should be sufficient evidence that the vaccine is efficacious in preventing serious infection and/or transmission.” For Omicron, there is as yet no such evidence. The little data we have suggest the opposite. One preprint study found that after 30 days the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines no longer had any statistically significant positive effect against Omicron infection, and after 90 days, their effect went negative—i.e., vaccinated people were more susceptible to Omicron infection.

WSJ

Note that the issue long predates Omicron. Just because it's temporarily overtaken by events (an Omicron-specific booster is expected in March) doesn't change the fundamental issue.

And I note that 90-day-negative piece of crap. That's a bad projection, not a measurement.

 

[Trausti]

Fixing the underlying causes of obesity and such require a lot more struggling than getting vaccinated.

Yes. Personal responsibility is hard. Too hard, actually. So let's just lock down society.

Back in the olden days, conservatives were strong supporters of the ethics of "personal responsibility". That has changed.
Unfortunately.
Tom

No, no. Many of the gym bros lean conservative. They'll tell you you're fat; but also encourage your self-improvement.

 

[Jarhyn]

Fixing the underlying causes of obesity and such require a lot more struggling than getting vaccinated.

Yes. Personal responsibility is hard. Too hard, actually. So let's just lock down society.

Back in the olden days, conservatives were strong supporters of the ethics of "personal responsibility". That has changed.
Unfortunately.
Tom

My parent's generation sure said "personal responsibility" a lot, but they didn't exercise it all that much.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That's how the virus works in the Republican brain.

What's actually happening with restaurants is that when you're eating you're with your group, when you're walking you have many more encounters with others. It's a half-assed compromise to allow restaurants to be open while reducing the risk of transmission.

 

[Trausti]

That's how the virus works in the Republican brain.

What's actually happening with restaurants is that when you're eating you're with your group, when you're walking you have many more encounters with others. It's a half-assed compromise to allow restaurants to be open while reducing the risk of transmission.

So why can't school kids do that?

 

[Metaphor]

when you're walking you have many more encounters with others

No.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

78% of Democratic voters support the Biden administration’s COVID-19 vaccine mandate plan
75% of likely Democratic voters have a favorable opinion of Dr. Fauci
59% of Democratic voters would favor a government policy requiring that citizens remain confined to their homes at all times, except for emergencies, if they refuse to get a COVID-19 vaccine
55% of Democratic voters would support a proposal for federal or state governments to fine Americans who choose not to get a COVID-19 vaccine
48% of Democratic voters think federal and state governments should be able to fine or imprison individuals who publicly question the efficacy of the existing COVID-19 vaccines on social media, television, radio, or in online or digital publications
47% of Democrats favor governments using digital devices to track unvaccinated people to ensure that they are quarantined or socially distancing from others
45% of Democrats would favor governments requiring citizens to temporarily live in designated facilities or locations if they refuse to get a COVID-19 vaccine
29% of Democratic voters would support temporarily removing parents’ custody of their children if parents refuse to take the COVID-19 vaccine

Rasmussen

Remember, if you oppose that, it is because you are a "Fascist".

Can you explain to me why vaccine mandates for COVID 19 are bad?

Even when I agree something is a good idea, I don't approve of mandating it. Just as an example, I wear a helmet when I ride my motorcycle, yet I oppose helmet laws.

Saying something should be mandated is a whole second step above and beyond saying it is a good idea. Each of those two arguments is a separate argument.

 

[Toni]

78% of Democratic voters support the Biden administration’s COVID-19 vaccine mandate plan
75% of likely Democratic voters have a favorable opinion of Dr. Fauci
59% of Democratic voters would favor a government policy requiring that citizens remain confined to their homes at all times, except for emergencies, if they refuse to get a COVID-19 vaccine
55% of Democratic voters would support a proposal for federal or state governments to fine Americans who choose not to get a COVID-19 vaccine
48% of Democratic voters think federal and state governments should be able to fine or imprison individuals who publicly question the efficacy of the existing COVID-19 vaccines on social media, television, radio, or in online or digital publications
47% of Democrats favor governments using digital devices to track unvaccinated people to ensure that they are quarantined or socially distancing from others
45% of Democrats would favor governments requiring citizens to temporarily live in designated facilities or locations if they refuse to get a COVID-19 vaccine
29% of Democratic voters would support temporarily removing parents’ custody of their children if parents refuse to take the COVID-19 vaccine

Rasmussen

Remember, if you oppose that, it is because you are a "Fascist".

Can you explain to me why vaccine mandates for COVID 19 are bad?

Even when I agree something is a good idea, I don't approve of mandating it. Just as an example, I wear a helmet when I ride my motorcycle, yet I oppose helmet laws.

Saying something should be mandated is a whole second step above and beyond saying it is a good idea. Each of those two arguments is a separate argument.

I understand that. But I don’t understand your argument for NOT mandating COVID vaccines. Can you please share it?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

That's how the virus works in the Republican brain.

What's actually happening with restaurants is that when you're eating you're with your group, when you're walking you have many more encounters with others. It's a half-assed compromise to allow restaurants to be open while reducing the risk of transmission.

So why can't school kids do that?

In restaurants you sit with a small group and only take the mask off when eating and drinking, not merely when sitting, though sitting in a restaurant is approximately the same as eating and drinking. In school, sitting and eating are not equivalent, and the students unmask when eating at their desks, i.e. in small groups and then mask back up. So, it is actually largely consistent to the extent that people do what they're supposed to do in restaurants.

Let's review: Students spend about 8 hours in school of which about 30 minutes is eating and drinking. They take off mask when eating lunch and drinking for that time. They mask when getting up to leave room etc etc. Meanwhile, persons in restaurants mask up, then when sitting with the purpose of eating and drinking for about an hour, they remove mask, but if they get up to use a bathroom or whatever, they mask again...like they do in school. Largely consistent policy.

The real problem here is that it seems silly to wear a mask for 10 seconds, then unmask for an hour, then mask up again for 10 seconds, not that school and restaurants are largely inconsistent, because they actually are largely consistent. Further, what people ought to do is minimize going to restaurants but when they do go to restaurants that structurally reduce transmission, such as outdoor seating, spacing out tables and people well, good ventilation, protective barriers, masked and vaxxed employees, etc.

 

[TSwizzle]

Starbucks told its employees in a memo on Tuesday that they would no longer be required to be fully vaccinated or submit to weekly coronavirus testing.

NYT

Good news, hopefully other national companies will follow.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Vaccine mandates obsolete;

That excerpt you gave is really crappy. I mean, really really crappy. Let's go over that.

It would be irrational, legally indefensible and contrary to the public interest for government to mandate vaccines absent any evidence that the vaccines are effective in stopping the spread of the pathogen they target.

Yes, it would be irrational, but the vaccines are somewhat effective in stopping the spread and somewhat effective at reducing the severity.

Yet that’s exactly what’s happening here. mandating a vaccine to stop the spread of a disease requires evidence that the vaccines will prevent infection or transmission (rather than efficacy against severe outcomes like hospitalization or death).

The vaccine does reduce the spread, though it isn't as great against omicron as we'd like and so that has to be supplemented by other protections that Qarens don't want to do while complaining at the same time that Biden isn't stopping the virus.

As the World Health Organization puts it, “if mandatory vaccination is considered necessary to interrupt transmission chains and prevent harm to others, there should be sufficient evidence that the vaccine is efficacious in preventing serious infection and/or transmission.”

Okay, that was really dumb. He said A is better than B and then he quotes the WHO to try to support him but they said A and/or B. So he's quoting a source that contradicts him. That is the WHO is saying "preventing ____serious____ infection," i.e. severity "and/or transmission."

For Omicron, there is as yet no such evidence. The little data we have suggest the opposite.

The data we have does NOT say the opposite. The data we have says the vaccines are somewhat effective and so is getting a boost. I recommend to read the fact-check link IN FULL below.

One preprint study found that after 30 days the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines no longer had any statistically significant positive effect against Omicron infection, and after 90 days, their effect went negative—i.e., vaccinated people were more susceptible to Omicron infection.

WSJ

That is clearly against common sense and so it is an issue of a correlation of a confounding variable and not a causation. The vaccine will not cause people to be more susceptible. Here is a fact-check on that:

"An Instagram post claimed that a Yale study showed that vaccinated people are more likely to be infected with omicron than people who are not vaccinated.

The claim misrepresents the source and findings of the study. It was done by Danish researchers at the Statens Serum Institut, not by Yale researchers.

The study shows a sharp decline in vaccine effectiveness against omicron over time in people who have received two doses. It also shows that effectiveness is restored with a booster dose of Pfizer, although there is not enough data on a Moderna booster. The authors said the study did not conclude that vaccinated people are more likely to be infected with omicron than people who are not vaccinated."​

Again, I recommend to read the link in full.

 

[repoman]

Why isn't infection treated in a similar manner to vaccination?

Wouldn't infection be similar to having an injected and nasal vaccine at the same time?

Note that I am using Eric Motherfucking Topol, the guy who made sure that the vaccine EUA happened after the election. One of the most respected medical guys who is not senile like the HIV discoverer.

 

[Trausti]

Let's review: Students spend about 8 hours in school of which about 30 minutes is eating and drinking. They take off mask when eating lunch and drinking for that time. They mask when getting up to leave room etc etc. Meanwhile, persons in restaurants mask up, then when sitting with the purpose of eating and drinking for about an hour, they remove mask, but if they get up to use a bathroom or whatever, they mask again...like they do in school. Largely consistent policy.

The real problem here is that it seems silly to wear a mask for 10 seconds, then unmask for an hour, then mask up again for 10 seconds, not that school and restaurants are largely inconsistent, because they actually are largely consistent. Further, what people ought to do is minimize going to restaurants but when they do go to restaurants that structurally reduce transmission, such as outdoor seating, spacing out tables and people well, good ventilation, protective barriers, masked and vaxxed employees, etc.

It has been known from the beginning that Covid has little affect on kids. The infection fatality rate for those aged 5 to 9 is less than 0.001 percent. Adults can get vaccinated. There is no benefit to anyone to treat children like lepers; denying them their childhood because some selfish neurotic adults can’t break from their Covid cult. As for your restaurant recommendations: you wear a mask alone in the car, right?

 

[bilby]

Let's review: Students spend about 8 hours in school of which about 30 minutes is eating and drinking. They take off mask when eating lunch and drinking for that time. They mask when getting up to leave room etc etc. Meanwhile, persons in restaurants mask up, then when sitting with the purpose of eating and drinking for about an hour, they remove mask, but if they get up to use a bathroom or whatever, they mask again...like they do in school. Largely consistent policy.

The real problem here is that it seems silly to wear a mask for 10 seconds, then unmask for an hour, then mask up again for 10 seconds, not that school and restaurants are largely inconsistent, because they actually are largely consistent. Further, what people ought to do is minimize going to restaurants but when they do go to restaurants that structurally reduce transmission, such as outdoor seating, spacing out tables and people well, good ventilation, protective barriers, masked and vaxxed employees, etc.

It has been known from the beginning that Covid has little affect on kids. The infection fatality rate for those aged 5 to 9 is less than 0.001 percent. Adults can get vaccinated. There is no benefit to anyone to treat children like lepers; denying them their childhood because some selfish neurotic adults can’t break from their Covid cult. As for your restaurant recommendations: you wear a mask alone in the car, right?

What part of 'children are vectors' do you not understand?

Children don't have to be at risk of death to threaten the lives of their grandparents.

This isn't difficult to grasp, unless you are truly committed to making damn sure not to grasp it.

 

[barbos]

New all time record in Russia 50k infections in a day, jump from 40k yesterday.