Covid-19 miscellany

[Loren Pechtel]

mRNA vaccines are not nearly as 'new' as you seem to think they are. And they are not 'experimental.'

Has the FDA approved this covid vaccine yet or is it still being used under emergency rules? I can't remember.

How do you consider yourself qualified to have a position on something you have so little knowledge of?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Risk myocarditis for an outdated vaccine booster for young healthy people?

Risk/Benefit anyone?

The risk seems to be minimal. If you get it it goes away on it's own soon, it's not like typical myocarditis.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

In good news, effective COVID treatments are being discovered and developed:

MSN

Huh? Blood thinners have been used against Covid for quite a while--and they're very much a double-edged sword because you're trying to navigate between clotting out and bleeding out and sometimes there's no space in between.

 

[Swammerdami]

And there are normal people who have determined for various reasons (young, fit, healthy, already been infected etc) that the vaccine is not necessary for them. Not everyone that declines the "vaccine" is the fruit loop you depict.

"Fruit loops"? Are they people that need to put the noun 'vaccine' in quotes?

What about "normal people" who can eschew a seat-belt or drive while drunk for various reasons (holds liquor well, drives slowly, isn't worried about dying)? Are they being abused by the liberals?

I'm "crabbing" about government mandates that force people to do something that is not necessary.

I ran a red light once where stopping was not necessary, and got a $75 ticket. I want my money back!

 

[Metaphor]

In good news, effective COVID treatments are being discovered and developed:

MSN

Huh? Blood thinners have been used against Covid for quite a while--and they're very much a double-edged sword because you're trying to navigate between clotting out and bleeding out and sometimes there's no space in between.

Do you have a psychological compulsion to comment on everything?

The story was 8 hours old when I posted it. It was the results of a newly published study.

 

[Metaphor]

There is no demonization. The above are the existing consequences of their actions. Many ERs in the US are stuffed with unvaccinated Covid-19 patients who are inhibiting access for health care by people suffering from other emergencies. Our supply chain and production are being inhibited by Covid related vacancies.

That isn't demonization, that is logistical truth. You really need to learn the difference between the two.

Many?! Not all?? The hospitals are running far above 100% and have been for some time. What's happening is patients are receiving a lower level of care than they should--being sent home when they should be in a bed, being in a bed when they should be in the ICU, ICUs operating far below what is considered safe staffing levels.

Yeah, but there's no triage in US hospitals.

 

[Elixir]

The governments unvaccinated of those countries are violating the human rights of their citizens.

FTFY

I do believe that zipr has put his finger on the crux of the problem.
Libbertards are very persistent about blaming evil goobermintz for the true evils for which they are collectively responsible.

 

[TSwizzle]

Vaccine mandates obsolete;

It would be irrational, legally indefensible and contrary to the public interest for government to mandate vaccines absent any evidence that the vaccines are effective in stopping the spread of the pathogen they target. Yet that’s exactly what’s happening here. mandating a vaccine to stop the spread of a disease requires evidence that the vaccines will prevent infection or transmission (rather than efficacy against severe outcomes like hospitalization or death). As the World Health Organization puts it, “if mandatory vaccination is considered necessary to interrupt transmission chains and prevent harm to others, there should be sufficient evidence that the vaccine is efficacious in preventing serious infection and/or transmission.” For Omicron, there is as yet no such evidence. The little data we have suggest the opposite. One preprint study found that after 30 days the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines no longer had any statistically significant positive effect against Omicron infection, and after 90 days, their effect went negative—i.e., vaccinated people were more susceptible to Omicron infection.

WSJ

 

[barbos]

Vaccine mandates obsolete;

It would be irrational, legally indefensible and contrary to the public interest for government to mandate vaccines absent any evidence that the vaccines are effective in stopping the spread of the pathogen they target. Yet that’s exactly what’s happening here. mandating a vaccine to stop the spread of a disease requires evidence that the vaccines will prevent infection or transmission (rather than efficacy against severe outcomes like hospitalization or death). As the World Health Organization puts it, “if mandatory vaccination is considered necessary to interrupt transmission chains and prevent harm to others, there should be sufficient evidence that the vaccine is efficacious in preventing serious infection and/or transmission.” For Omicron, there is as yet no such evidence. The little data we have suggest the opposite. One preprint study found that after 30 days the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines no longer had any statistically significant positive effect against Omicron infection, and after 90 days, their effect went negative—i.e., vaccinated people were more susceptible to Omicron infection.

WSJ

There is an issue of medical costs. Unvacinated idiots cost too much.
I heard $200K number on average if they get to hospital.

But I am fine with them dying at home isolated fro the rest of population.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Vaccination has better than a magnitude reduction in the number of people being hospitalized with Covid-19 (Omicron).

The chance of death was never high with Covid. Even Delta, then percentage was always well below 10%, but certainly high enough on an aggregate basis, where millions could die. And while Omicron is killing at a fraction of Delta, it has managed to break our peak for hospitalizations. Hospital capacity has always been a concern and vaccination greatly reduces the impact on our Health Care System (vaccination also costs a lot less money to companies and health care payments).

The WSJ piece is complete bullshit and is anti-vax territory, a justification for ending most mandatory vaccinations. Reducing hospitalizations is and has always been critical.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Vaccine mandates obsolete;

It would be irrational, legally indefensible and contrary to the public interest for government to mandate vaccines absent any evidence that the vaccines are effective in stopping the spread of the pathogen they target. Yet that’s exactly what’s happening here. mandating a vaccine to stop the spread of a disease requires evidence that the vaccines will prevent infection or transmission (rather than efficacy against severe outcomes like hospitalization or death). As the World Health Organization puts it, “if mandatory vaccination is considered necessary to interrupt transmission chains and prevent harm to others, there should be sufficient evidence that the vaccine is efficacious in preventing serious infection and/or transmission.” For Omicron, there is as yet no such evidence. The little data we have suggest the opposite. One preprint study found that after 30 days the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines no longer had any statistically significant positive effect against Omicron infection, and after 90 days, their effect went negative—i.e., vaccinated people were more susceptible to Omicron infection.

WSJ

There is an issue of medical costs. Unvacinated idiots cost too much.
I heard $200K number on average if they get to hospital.

But I am fine with them dying at home isolated fro the rest of population.

Anecdotally, our company in Fall, had paid over $1 million for Covid related hospital bills. We aren't a tiny company, but that $1 million was very noticeable in the profit column.

 

[TSwizzle]

Vaccine mandates obsolete;

It would be irrational, legally indefensible and contrary to the public interest for government to mandate vaccines absent any evidence that the vaccines are effective in stopping the spread of the pathogen they target. Yet that’s exactly what’s happening here. mandating a vaccine to stop the spread of a disease requires evidence that the vaccines will prevent infection or transmission (rather than efficacy against severe outcomes like hospitalization or death). As the World Health Organization puts it, “if mandatory vaccination is considered necessary to interrupt transmission chains and prevent harm to others, there should be sufficient evidence that the vaccine is efficacious in preventing serious infection and/or transmission.” For Omicron, there is as yet no such evidence. The little data we have suggest the opposite. One preprint study found that after 30 days the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines no longer had any statistically significant positive effect against Omicron infection, and after 90 days, their effect went negative—i.e., vaccinated people were more susceptible to Omicron infection.

WSJ

The WSJ piece is complete bullshit and is anti-vax territory,

Dr. Montagnier was a winner of the 2008 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for discovering the human immunodeficiency virus.

Obviously an anti vaxxer.

I haven't laughed this hard since my granny got her tits caught in the wringer

 

[barbos]

Dr. Montagnier is 89 years old. That's older than Biden.

 

[repoman]

By March or April there WILL BE omicron vaccines that will be effective again. So at that point the WSJ article will be outdated.

This is just a rough patch...

 

[TomC]

The WSJ piece is complete bullshit and is anti-vax territory, a justification for ending most mandatory vaccinations. Reducing hospitalizations is and has always been critical.

It's that most effective of lies, the partial truth.
The vaccine is not a magic bullet, making the vaccinated invulnerably immune. Our best method of fighting the virus, and all the attendant problems, is herd immunity. That requires a high level of vaccination across the population.

Writing that article, without mentioning that truth, is a lie.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Dr. Montagnier is 89 years old. That's older than Biden.

Hardly. Biden dates back so far, his birthday is celebrated by Half Lifes.

 

[repoman]

Only comparing people who got the vaccine to people who got covid before delta and seeing how often that they each are getting omicron is fair.

If even the previously infected are getting omicron at the same rate as only vaxxed and non infected, then that is not a shade on the vaccine as a platonic ideal.

But if the previously infected are still more protected vs omicron then would that be a point of study to find a way to improve vaccines, which everyone on this board should want to happen.

We already have lots of vaccines and hopefully each can be studied regarding this.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Vaccine mandates obsolete;

It would be irrational, legally indefensible and contrary to the public interest for government to mandate vaccines absent any evidence that the vaccines are effective in stopping the spread of the pathogen they target. Yet that’s exactly what’s happening here. mandating a vaccine to stop the spread of a disease requires evidence that the vaccines will prevent infection or transmission (rather than efficacy against severe outcomes like hospitalization or death). As the World Health Organization puts it, “if mandatory vaccination is considered necessary to interrupt transmission chains and prevent harm to others, there should be sufficient evidence that the vaccine is efficacious in preventing serious infection and/or transmission.” For Omicron, there is as yet no such evidence. The little data we have suggest the opposite. One preprint study found that after 30 days the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines no longer had any statistically significant positive effect against Omicron infection, and after 90 days, their effect went negative—i.e., vaccinated people were more susceptible to Omicron infection.

WSJ

The WSJ piece is complete bullshit and is anti-vax territory,

Dr. Montagnier was a winner of the 2008 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for discovering the human immunodeficiency virus.

Obviously an anti vaxxer.

It is anti-vax territory. There is a movement that is growing to get rid of the other mandates, and this is the exact reason they'd try to use.

I haven't laughed this hard since my granny got her tits caught in the wringer

You often watch your grandmother topless?

Second thought, nevermind.

 

[repoman]

Anyone here up on remdesivir?

https://www.science.org/content/art...k-remdesivir-first-fda-approved-covid-19-drug

Is it being used a lot?

 

[bilby]

Vaccine mandates obsolete;

It would be irrational, legally indefensible and contrary to the public interest for government to mandate vaccines absent any evidence that the vaccines are effective in stopping the spread of the pathogen they target. Yet that’s exactly what’s happening here. mandating a vaccine to stop the spread of a disease requires evidence that the vaccines will prevent infection or transmission (rather than efficacy against severe outcomes like hospitalization or death). As the World Health Organization puts it, “if mandatory vaccination is considered necessary to interrupt transmission chains and prevent harm to others, there should be sufficient evidence that the vaccine is efficacious in preventing serious infection and/or transmission.” For Omicron, there is as yet no such evidence. The little data we have suggest the opposite. One preprint study found that after 30 days the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines no longer had any statistically significant positive effect against Omicron infection, and after 90 days, their effect went negative—i.e., vaccinated people were more susceptible to Omicron infection.

WSJ

Well if a large body of published research is demonstrating that there is a problem, th...

...wait, what?

One study? One preprint study?

Fuck off.

Just because the WSJ employs scientifically illiterate fools, there's no need for the rest of us to give their ramblings credence.