Covid-19 miscellany

[Metaphor]

Okay. "Vaccines work because they are mandated".

That means vaccines don't work. What a strange thing for you to say. I believe vaccines work, that's why I got one.

Places with higher vaccination rates have lower case fatality rates. Whether that vaccination rate comes from personal choice or vaccine mandates doesn't change this.

For fuck's sake, vaccines work because they are designed to innoculate individuals who get the vaccine, and the specific method of innoculation is not 'because the government forced you to get one'.

 

[Metaphor]

And also, if a certain town decided that it did not want to flouridate its water, that forces nothing on anybody either. People could flouridate their own if they really wanted to.

That wouldn't be a good idea--the proper levels are very small, not something that the average person should be playing with.

I am not telling people to flouridate their own water.

I am telling people it is absurd, absolutely fucking whacko level absurd, to think that because somebody opposes some specific mandate, they must be an anarcho-fucking-capitalist.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Does anyone know what is going on with Pfizer vaccine quality control and proper handling in Vietnam?

My first guess would be bad reporting.

My second would be counterfeiting--it's a big problem in that part of the world.

Or bad refrigeration considering the conditions those vaccines need to be stored in.

I would expect bad refrigeration to simply produce no effect, not to cause harm.

Didn't think of it like that. You could be right.

He’s not right.

You misunderstand what he is saying.

Does anyone know what is going on with Pfizer vaccine quality control and proper handling in Vietnam?

My first guess would be bad reporting.

My second would be counterfeiting--it's a big problem in that part of the world.

Or bad refrigeration considering the conditions those vaccines need to be stored in.

I would expect bad refrigeration to simply produce no effect, not to cause harm.

Bad refrigeration =not maintaining vaccines at appropriate temperature to prevent degradation of the vaccine.

In other words, bad refrigeration in this context is the same as no refrigeration and makes the vaccines useless.

Biology is not simply adding a bunch of 1’s and 0’s and then coming up with a work around 6 months later.

Of course it makes them useless. The issue is whether it makes them harmful or simply inert. Degraded mRNA won't code for anything, it should simply be inert. It's sterile, it's not going to grow toxins.

The 'bad' is having ineffective vaccines passed off to patients as effective. It gives them a very false sense of protection and makes them vulnerable to infection. That's the BAD.

You misunderstand the exchange. You were claiming that Loren was mistaken. But that is because you did not understand what he was saying. He was saying that the vaccines would probably not become toxic. And that they would become useless. And then you objected, and in your objection you claimed that the vaccines would become useless, which is pretty much the same that Loren was claiming, so it was not an objection to what he was actually saying, but to what you thought he was saying. But when he clarified, you came up with something else, not related to the exchange.

 

[Toni]

Does anyone know what is going on with Pfizer vaccine quality control and proper handling in Vietnam?

My first guess would be bad reporting.

My second would be counterfeiting--it's a big problem in that part of the world.

Or bad refrigeration considering the conditions those vaccines need to be stored in.

I would expect bad refrigeration to simply produce no effect, not to cause harm.

Didn't think of it like that. You could be right.

He’s not right.

You misunderstand what he is saying.

Does anyone know what is going on with Pfizer vaccine quality control and proper handling in Vietnam?

My first guess would be bad reporting.

My second would be counterfeiting--it's a big problem in that part of the world.

Or bad refrigeration considering the conditions those vaccines need to be stored in.

I would expect bad refrigeration to simply produce no effect, not to cause harm.

Bad refrigeration =not maintaining vaccines at appropriate temperature to prevent degradation of the vaccine.

In other words, bad refrigeration in this context is the same as no refrigeration and makes the vaccines useless.

Biology is not simply adding a bunch of 1’s and 0’s and then coming up with a work around 6 months later.

Of course it makes them useless. The issue is whether it makes them harmful or simply inert. Degraded mRNA won't code for anything, it should simply be inert. It's sterile, it's not going to grow toxins.

The 'bad' is having ineffective vaccines passed off to patients as effective. It gives them a very false sense of protection and makes them vulnerable to infection. That's the BAD.

You misunderstand the exchange. You were claiming that Loren was mistaken. But that is because you did not understand what he was saying. He was saying that the vaccines would probably not become toxic. And that they would become useless. And then you objected, and in your objection you claimed that the vaccines would become useless, which is pretty much the same that Loren was claiming, so it was not an objection to what he was actually saying, but to what you thought he was saying. But when he clarified, you came up with something else, not related to the exchange.

Loren and I already sorted it out.

 

[blastula]

Robert Lamay, 50, Naches, WA, Ex-State Trooper, Anti-vaxxer, dead from COVID

UPDATE(1/28/22): Robert who quit his job rather than get vaccinated is dead from COVID. see below Orginal Post (1/23/2022):According to an insider tip to SAV, Robert is in the hospital on a CPAP with COVID. Robert gained national attention when, after he was fired as a Washington State Trooper...

www.sorryantivaxxer.com

He can kiss Darwin's ass now.

He was a hero on Fox News and interviewed twice, once by Laura Ingraham. His death has not been mentioned once by the network.

Keep it up, Fox News. Killing your own viewers.

Apparently, blue lives don't really matter at Fox.

COVID was again the leading cause of death among U.S. law enforcement in 2021

Some 458 officers died in the line of duty, making 2021 the deadliest year since 1930. The vast majority of deaths — 301 — are attributed to COVID-19, followed by firearm and traffic incidents.

www.npr.org

 

[blastula]

Gavin Newson is such an ass;

California Governor Gavin Newsom claims he was 'very judicious' and only took his face mask off during Sunday's NFC Championship game for a photo op with basketball legend Earvin 'Magic' Johnson. 'I was very judicious yesterday, very judicious' Newsom said during a press conference Monday. 'You'll see in the photo I did take, where Magic was kind enough, generous enough to ask me for a photograph - in my left hand's the mask, and I took a photo. The rest of the time I wore it, as we all should.' He also reminded citizens to continue wearing their masks to prevent further spread of COVID-19, saying: 'I encourage everyone else to do so.'

Daily Mail

Newsom can fuck right off.

Mayor Breed too.

Maskless Gov. Newsom, Mayor Breed spotted at 49ers-Rams game despite mandate

Gov. Gavin Newsom, San Francisco Mayor London Breed and others appeared to ignore a mask mandate at SoFi Stadium.

www.mercurynews.com

 

[lpetrich]

Adam Lee on Twitter: "(link) Robert LaMay, a Washington state trooper who quit in a rage rather than get vaccinated for COVID, dies of COVID. He'd be alive if he had just complied." / Twitter
noting
Washington trooper who defied state vaccine mandate and told gov to 'kiss my a--' dies from COVID-19 | Fox News
noting
Jason Rantz on KTTH Radio on Twitter: "“This is the last time you’ll hear me in a patrol car and Jay Inslee can kiss my ass.”

Washington State Trooper in Yakima, Wash. signs off after 22 years — fired by @GovInslee for being unvaccinated. (vid link)" / Twitter
and
WA State Patrol on Twitter: "Please see the attached regarding the loss of retired Trooper Robert LaMay. (pic link)" / Twitter
"I am deeply saddened over the news that our former friend and colleague Trooper Robert LaMay has passed away. ... Let us now remember our old friend, support his family and loved ones, give thanks for his service, and resoive to meet the challenges ahead with continuing duty, dignity and respect."

 

[lpetrich]

Adam Lee on Twitter: "I joke, a bit. But COVID has cast a stark light on this perverse dynamic of Republicans becoming so spiteful that they'd literally rather die than cooperate with Democrats who want to save their lives." / Twitter

Adam Lee on Twitter: "(link) The book "Dying of Whiteness", which I review here, is a great summary of this mindset. It's a one-stop explanation of what America has become." / Twitter
noting
Book Review: Dying of Whiteness written 2020 May 20

Summary: White conservatives are willing to impoverish, sicken and kill themselves to prevent people of color from getting ahead.

Even as the coronavirus pandemic sweeps down on middle America, red states seem determined to make it worse on themselves. Armed mobs waving Confederate flags demand the reopening of bars and hair salons; right-wing churches argue that banning large gatherings infringes their freedom of religion; and refusal to wear a face mask has become a conservative rallying cry.

This has become a theme of the Trump administration: conservative white voters loudly demanding policies that will harm themselves worst of all. Jonathan Metzl’s book Dying of Whiteness: How the Politics of Racial Resentment Is Killing America’s Heartland is an exploration of why. Metzl, a professor of sociology at Vanderbilt University, profiles red states that have suffered badly from the laws their own voters wanted.

Then discussing Missouri, Tennessee, and Kansas.

The standard liberal explanation is that Republican voters are being hoodwinked by conservative rhetoric or are too ignorant to understand their own interests. But in Metzl’s argument, this isn’t a choice made out of ignorance. Conservative whites are wedded to a zero-sum politics of resentment and division, where they’re “winning” if they perceive themselves as doing better than people of color, regardless of how badly off they are in an absolute sense. It’s a deliberate, self-sacrificial decision to offer their own lives to preserve a system that benefits and privileges white people over others.

...
On the other hand, we may not have to go through them if we can just go around them. Their electoral power is shrinking, not least because they’re willingly killing themselves off, and the younger voters who are replacing them are more diverse and less religious. The backlash politics that Republicans have championed have been a scourge on American politics for decades. But in the long run, their suicidal ideology may be its own undoing.

May be overconfident, because they can do a lot of damage on the way down.

 

[lpetrich]

Adam Lee on Twitter: "All of this as well. (pic link)" / Twitter

...
What I do know is he left behind a wife and four children, and they have to go on living without him. Sooner or later they will realize that it didn't have to be this way. How will they feel then? Tucker Carlson's not gonna mail them a check. Joe Rogan won't walk his daughter down the aisle. Aaron Rodgers isn't gonna come over to have a catch with his son. He made himself a martyr to impress a bunch of people who never cared about him and never will, and in the process emptied out a hole the people who did can never fill.

Adam Lee on Twitter: "(link) More police officers died from COVID in 2021 than from all other causes combined. They're killing themselves through their continuing resistance to vaccination." / Twitter
noting
COVID was the leading cause of death among active-duty law enforcement in 2021 : NPR

Last year was the deadliest for active-duty law enforcement in nearly a century, with COVID-19 identified as the leading cause of death for the second year in a row.

Some 458 local, state, tribal and federal officers died in the line of duty in 2021, according to a preliminary report from the National Law Enforcement Memorial and Museum (NLEOMF). That makes an increase of 55% from the previous year's tally of 295 and the highest total number since 1930.

...
COVID-19 vaccines and boosters offer protection against severe illness and death, even from the highly transmissible omicron variant.

Yet police departments and unions in cities across the country — including New York City, Chicago, Los Angeles, Seattle and Phoenix — have pushed back against mandates requiring vaccines for public employees, filing lawsuits and threatening resignation.

Plus, not all states have them. In Georgia, for example, where vaccine mandates are scarce, at least 33 police officers died of the virus as of November.

Noting https://nleomf.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/2021-EOY-Fatality-Report-Final-web.pdf
and
Tennessee Gov. Bill Lee recruits out-of-state cops regardless of vaccinations : NPR

With all the anti-vax cops, are there *any* strongly pro-vax cops?

 

[lpetrich]

Adam Lee on Twitter: "If criminals were killing as many cops as COVID has, every police union in the country would be screaming for martial law." / Twitter


He got the subreddit's Herman Cain Award.
Robert LaMay, Washington state trooper who quit instead of being vaccinated, has died of covid. He signed off his last shift by saying "Kiss my ass" to governor Jay Inslee. : HermanCainAward

Also
Fox News Silent After Guest Dies Of Covid : HermanCainAward
noting
Fox News Silent After Guest Dies Of Covid - YouTube

And
Fox News wanted viewers to hear an anti-vax trooper’s story – until he died of COVID : HermanCainAward
noting
Fox News wanted viewers to hear an anti-vax trooper’s story – until he died of COVID | Media Matters for America

Fox News has tried to turn workers who refuse vaccine mandates into culture war heroes, even though the network itself voluntarily imposed a requirement that its own employees be either vaccinated or tested for COVID-19 daily. LaMay became the latest such figure in October, after he resigned from the state police rather than follow Washington state’s vaccine requirement.

The network’s hosts and others on the right promoted LaMay’s story and presented his refusal to take a lifesaving drug as an example their audiences could emulate. But once his 15 minutes of fame were over and he could no longer be used to further the right-wing agenda, LaMay became expendable – his passing from the virus has not been mentioned on Fox as of posting time.

 

[TSwizzle]

The authoritarians will try to ignore the science;

Lockdowns have “had little to no effect on” reducing deaths from Covid-19 and should be “rejected out of hand” for dealing with the next pandemic, according to a new international study that comes amid falling confidence in public health authorities in the US.
Business closures and stay at home orders in the US and Europe reduced deaths by 0.2 per cent on average, according to a new analysis by American and Swedish researchers that questioned whether the novel health policy, pioneered by China in Wuhan in early 2020, would pass a cost-benefit analysis. “Lockdowns have not been used to such a large extent during any of the pandemics of the past century,” the authors said, suggesting their “marginal at best” benefits needed to be compared with their “devastating effects”.

News

And the MSM will likely pay no attention.

 

[lpetrich]

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Update: FDA Takes Key Action by Approving Second COVID-19 Vaccine | FDA

Today, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration approved a second COVID-19 vaccine. The vaccine has been known as the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine; the approved vaccine will be marketed as Spikevax for the prevention of COVID-19 in individuals 18 years of age and older.

...
Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine has been available under emergency use authorization (EUA) for individuals 18 years of age and older since Dec. 18, 2020.

COVID-19 Vaccines for Children and Teens | CDC
Pfizer is approved for age 5 or more, Moderna and J&J only for age 18 or more.

Pfizer COVID vaccine for kids under 5 could be ready this month : NPR

Pfizer-BioNTech is expected to file a submission for emergency use to the Food and Drug Administration for a vaccine regimen designed for use in children aged six months to five years, according to a person familiar with the plan. The companies could file for the authorization as early as Tuesday.

Six months. That's well into babyhood.

 

[lpetrich]

They're still testing Moderna on people under 18.

Exclusive: Moderna COVID shot could be used in U.S. children, teens within weeks, CEO says | Reuters - from Oct 27 last year
and
Moderna says COVID vaccine safe and effective for kids 6 to 11 : Shots - Health News : NPR from Oct 25 last year
and
Moderna COVID-19 vaccine pediatric clinical trial to focus on ages 6 months to 5 years from Nov 8 last year

 

[repoman]

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Update: FDA Takes Key Action by Approving Second COVID-19 Vaccine | FDA

Today, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration approved a second COVID-19 vaccine. The vaccine has been known as the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine; the approved vaccine will be marketed as Spikevax for the prevention of COVID-19 in individuals 18 years of age and older.

...
Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine has been available under emergency use authorization (EUA) for individuals 18 years of age and older since Dec. 18, 2020.

COVID-19 Vaccines for Children and Teens | CDC
Pfizer is approved for age 5 or more, Moderna and J&J only for age 18 or more.

Pfizer COVID vaccine for kids under 5 could be ready this month : NPR

Pfizer-BioNTech is expected to file a submission for emergency use to the Food and Drug Administration for a vaccine regimen designed for use in children aged six months to five years, according to a person familiar with the plan. The companies could file for the authorization as early as Tuesday.

Six months. That's well into babyhood.

Well into babyhood...

Does that give you any pause for THIS vaccine for THIS virus? Forgetting effective vs omicron and assuming an up to date version of the vaccine for the circulating virus.

 

[TomC]

That is one of the most disingenuous bullshit statements from the anti-vax movement. Vaccines work because they are mandated for fuck sakes. HERD FUCKING IMMUNITY! This isn't Shingles!

This is poorly phrased to be charitable about it. And, frankly, I share @Metaphor low opinion of government mandates. I don't trust the bozos in government with that kind of power. There's a huge grey area between forcible vaccination and nothing.
I'd be fine with the government backing up private entities imposing policies and restrictions. From stores to venues to employers, to hospitals, they have to balance various competing goals. The government doesn't, at least not much.

And I'm confident that a flat mandate will have all kinds of ugly side effects. "Fuck you, you can't boss me around" is still a very common attitude in this country. I'd rather just make life more convenient for the vaccinated. Then people choose the vaccination.

My partner's employer handled it very well, I think. They clamped down hard in the beginning. Both masks and clear plastic face shields required inside the plant. They slowly started lifting restrictions, and once vaccination was widely available removed even the mask policy for the completely vaccinated. That worked very well.

Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

The authoritarians will try to ignore the science;

Lockdowns have “had little to no effect on” reducing deaths from Covid-19 and should be “rejected out of hand” for dealing with the next pandemic, according to a new international study that comes amid falling confidence in public health authorities in the US.
Business closures and stay at home orders in the US and Europe reduced deaths by 0.2 per cent on average, according to a new analysis by American and Swedish researchers that questioned whether the novel health policy, pioneered by China in Wuhan in early 2020, would pass a cost-benefit analysis. “Lockdowns have not been used to such a large extent during any of the pandemics of the past century,” the authors said, suggesting their “marginal at best” benefits needed to be compared with their “devastating effects”.

News

And the MSM will likely pay no attention.

Probably because it's paywalled. We have no idea if this is an opinion piece by some rando or what.

 

[Toni]

That is one of the most disingenuous bullshit statements from the anti-vax movement. Vaccines work because they are mandated for fuck sakes. HERD FUCKING IMMUNITY! This isn't Shingles!

This is poorly phrased to be charitable about it. And, frankly, I share @Metaphor low opinion of government mandates. I don't trust the bozos in government with that kind of power. There's a huge grey area between forcible vaccination and nothing.
I'd be fine with the government backing up private entities imposing policies and restrictions. From stores to venues to employers, to hospitals, they have to balance various competing goals. The government doesn't, at least not much.

And I'm confident that a flat mandate will have all kinds of ugly side effects. "Fuck you, you can't boss me around" is still a very common attitude in this country. I'd rather just make life more convenient for the vaccinated. Then people choose the vaccination.

My partner's employer handled it very well, I think. They clamped down hard in the beginning. Both masks and clear plastic face shields required inside the plant. They slowly started lifting restrictions, and once vaccination was widely available removed even the mask policy for the completely vaccinated. That worked very well.

Tom

Cool. I hope that continues to work very well in the face of the onslaught of omicron and whatever new variants come along. Where I live? Not so much.

Lack of a flat mandate will have and does have all sorts of ugly side effects, most notably disease that, in its most innocuous, causes sufficient illness that people usually need to stay at home (and sometimes are compelled to work anyway), with whatever associated economic loss that indicates, undue burdens on health care systems and health care personnel, and hospitalization, and death, sometimes leaving children orphaned or families without their main breadwinner and now dependent on those bozos in the government you do disdain.

 

[Elixir]

We have no idea if this is an opinion piece by some rando or what.

It’s from the Australian.com.au, an Aussie paper that calls itself (as most extreme right wing pubs do) “center-right”. The article is behind a paywall here, but if you ante up they’ll give you a free subscription to the once-respected Wall Street Gerbil, now a relatively muted mouthpiece of the GQP.

 

[TSwizzle]

After the insufferable prick CA governor Newsom was caught disregarding mask mandates again, Los Angeles County Supervisor Kathryn Barger called on officials to alter the mask mandate;

“Let’s do away with blanket COVID-19 masking policies — they don’t make a difference when they’re not consistently followed or enforced,” Barger said in a statement. “We need to trust the public to make the best personal decisions for themselves based on their unique risks and circumstances.”

News

The mask mandate is due to expire Feb 15th anyway. It will be interesting to see if these idiots try to keep it in place. I can't see how they can, there is no science to support mask wearing and a lot of people just don't bother wearing them anyway. SoFi will be packed for super bowl and I doubt you will see many people wearing masks, same as what happened Sunday.

 

[TomC]

Cool. I hope that continues to work very well in the face of the onslaught of omicron and whatever new variants come along. Where I live? Not so much.

We seem to be talking about two different things. Where I live, southern Indiana, might have reached 50%. If so, it's recently. Last I knew, it was ~48%.

The place Doug works is very different. Based on his description, it's around 90%. There's no mandate. Just a requirement to wear a mask unless you're vaccinated. For all I know, a bunch of his fellow employees are fibbing to their antivaxxer friends and family. But you won't get a pin that says "vaccinated" without proof that you are. If you don't have one you'd better have a mask on when a supervisor is around, which is most of the time. Doug forgot his pin one day and had to wear a mask all shift. He is a supervisor, but there's no exception. He didn't make that mistake twice.

Another plan I liked was the airline that recognized the additional costs of unvaccinated employees. So they dinged paychecks of unvaccinated employees $200/month to help cover that added expense. They didn't mandate a vaccine, they just shifted the economic burden to people choosing to create it.

These are the sort of nongovernmental policies that I believe can get us up to herd immunity without forcible vaccination. Making people responsible for the outcomes of their choices.

Tom